While making some tests for Michael i thought about this.
I wasn't sure how it might look in TG3.
After some tests i wanted to try a collision detection (!) kinda scene in TG3. So i placed a cube in the scene.
There are some errors and it could be improved of course but as i don't want to use it for now i think this is enough for today.
All in TG3 .No image maps etc.
[attachimg=1]
Edit: The file is below.
I did not know that TG could do that. Very, very interesting. I hope that the 'how' will be discussed at some point. Can this technique be modified to simulate small streams and cascades? Some pretty exciting possibilities to ponder if that's the case. Truly eye-opening Kadri, thanks for sharing the test and post.
Interesting. I could see a lot of other uses for this too.
Thanks guys!
This could be done in old Terragen 2 too. It is precise displacement animation with animated masking basically.
Like Ulco's rivers for example."Can this technique be modified to simulate small streams and cascades? ".
I don't remember how he made them but probably something similar Zaxxon.
If you can get a shape for an image you can animate it too.
It is getting the timing and numbers right. Just takes a little more effort .
Would be nice if we could get this easier.
Blender fluids with it's export functions might be better suited (for example).
I actually just wanted to see if i can get something lookalike or not.
I wanted a statue and sand dripping over it too but i have not much time these days.
My nephew Burak Özel died last week .He was only 32 years old.
He was a motocross champion.
He took his own life unfortunately.
I used Terragen like a therapy in these 2-3 days.
Anyway, i think you know what i mean.
Sorry to hear about your loss Kadri.
-Greg
Thank you Greg! Strange i did not want to write here but it came out from itself.
Sometimes we need to talk...........whether we realize it or not. I lost my wife when my son was about 3 years old......he will soon be 22.
Sorry for your loss.............it will get better, it just takes time.
Thanks !
Sorry for your loss too Yossam!
How is your son now? That must have been hard for you and your son.
We talked so much all of us together in our family .
The worst part is not on us. His father , mother and brothers are devastated .
Then there comes a time you spend all your sadness, there is only so much you can cry .
After that normal life begins ones more.
And that hurts too. It feels like forgetting.
But as you said it takes just time.
I raised my son basically by myself..........his grandmother would watch him when I had to work. He turned out pretty good if I do say so myself. He still asks questions about his mother sometimes............he kinda feels like he never got a chance to know her. The pain will diminish with time, but the memories never will.
Quote from: yossam on March 01, 2014, 02:33:21 PM
I raised my son basically by myself..........his grandmother would watch him when I had to work. He turned out pretty good if I do say so myself. He still asks questions about his mother sometimes............he kinda feels like he never got a chance to know her. The pain will diminish with time, but the memories never will.
Sad but sweet too!I know what you mean Yossam!
Sorry too for the sad news. Life is a box of shit sometimes. :-[ I know it too.
But on a happy node, this render test is freaking cool!
Quotebut as i don't want to use it for now i think this is enough for today.
NO! Please do something with it. Its worth it on its own! This is new!
Quote from: TheBadger on March 01, 2014, 05:40:48 PM
Sorry too for the sad news. Life is a box of shit sometimes. :-[ I know it too.
...
Thanks! Sorry to hear that Michael! If you want write about it.
Regarding the animation if i can find a place to fit it why not of course .
The statue with dripping sand over it was my first thought and this a test for that actually.
Maybe later Michael.
Very nice experimentation Kadri !
Thanks Jo!
I'm sorry for your loss too, Kadri. So young... The worst feelings will last a (long) while, but you never completely get over it. A youth friend of mine (not even a relative) committed suicide (because he couldn't get over the sudden loss of his rather young mother). This was 30 odd years ago, but sometimes I think of him and get sad again, and it's not even close.
On the experiment; I might figure out how you did this (warping, a cube, 2+ simple shapes, some displ. of course), but I find it very clever. Respect!
Thanks Ulco! Yes it is part of our life unfortunately.It is harder when you don't expect it at all.
This was kinda a side i did not think Terragen can do Ulco.
For some scenes that don't need more precise things it could be useful especially for "it must be full Terragen" kinda folks :)
I think there is a lot to be found out in TG, and you've done a great job here. I didn't get as far as you (but maybe spent too little time ;) )
You are already there ;) Nice Ulco!
Hey Kadri, I just read your posting, and I'm sorry for your loss too. I wish you and your family a lot of strength.
I know, it's probably hard to focus on something like Terragen now, but I realised that especially TG has some strong calming effect when you're feeling bad.
So, maybe it helps?!
This is a great animation. First I thought, this is an imported obj sequence. But it's pure TG! Hats off!!!!
Thanks Hannes!
I think i wouldn't tried such a test at all before.
Terragen made me feel better. Times goes so much faster when i work with it.
I know that feeling. TG is like the dark African forests the early explorers explored. Pleasant surprises (and dangers) behind every tree.
:)
One sorta broader question about this that I have is, does planetside know about this? And what about the people who use TG to make movies like 'man of steel' and others? Do they all know how to do this, but we just stumbled on this? Or another way to ask is, did anyone know this could be done before Kadri?
Perhaps as Kadri says, this could be pushed much further. And perhaps someone already has but just does not tell us?
Some of us ( ;) ) nag planetside about increasing animation power on a regular basis. And then Kadri does this. So I don't know, just wondering what else can be done (or has been done) or what planetside may add that we don't know about.
By the way. Some obvious uses of this are landslides and lava ;)
It is a question that guys who are in that kind of work should answer and Matt itself is in that circle too.
I just think that because Terragen is labeled(!) as a landscape centered program most of them will try to use software that is focused in dynamics,fluids etc. firstly.
And let's be realistic ; for or a 100% working scene i am not sure if Terragen would be enough.
But for certain things there are really some possibilities as it looks that i wasn't aware too before your thread Michael.
"By the way. Some obvious uses of this are landslides and lava"
Yeah for pure water not so much but for sticky fluid kinda things i would certainly use it :)
To be honest, and absolutely not meant to belittle Kadri's experiment, I don't believe it's real collision detection, but clever positioning of cube and vortices. Or are you really up to something extremely ingenious, Kadri?
I too would like to know if this is a real sim or just as you say Dune, a cleverly arranged tree of displacers that mimic the effect. It's cool non the less, but real fluid sims seem to be something that's well beyond ability of Terragen.
Guys you haven't payed attention what i wrote in the first post:
"After some tests i wanted to try a collision detection (!) kinda scene in TG3. So i placed a cube in the scene."
And there is even a smile in the post description.
I did not even thought about that you would think that there is a real collision.
Because Terragen doesn't have that feature at all for now.
Still kinda fun you thought about that ;)
lol
Yes, and I am not trying to pretend that I don't need other soft anymore. Just trying to find ways to make compositing blend better from the start.
Still... I should be so 'clever' to do what Kadri and Dune have demonstrated, with as Greg queries, " a cleverly arranged tree of displacers that mimic the effect...?" For some limited purposes this could be very useful, as Dune used in a prior work with a cascading stream. 'Mimic' is an appropriate and honorable word IMO given that all we're doing is digital anyway. Now if I can just get that 'clever' upgrade to my personal wetware... ;)
Well it's certainly beyond my creative use of Terragen, that's for sure.
-Greg
Thanks guys but it isn't really so hard.
After a little trial and error everybody can do it.
It is more Teragen itself that's surprises me after so much years.
Stop teasing them and show them how you did it ;)
Matt
Quote from: TheBadger on March 04, 2014, 03:36:55 AM
Some of us ( ;) ) nag planetside about increasing animation power on a regular basis. And then Kadri does this. So I don't know, just wondering what else can be done (or has been done) or what planetside may add that we don't know about.
There are a near-infinite number of things that can be done with TG that we don't know about. When someone designs a programming language, they do so knowing (and wanting) that the users of the language will create programs that are unimaginable to the language designer. It's the same with Terragen. The art in the design of something like Terragen is choosing which tools and building blocks to implement so that we balance ease of use for common tasks in the core domain (landscape and environment rendering) with enough open-endedness and flexibility to make it "not too difficult" to solve near-domain problems that might arise on a project, and along the way we hope that the open-endedness makes it "possible" to do practically unlimited things if the user is creative enough or perseveres enough.
So many things are technically possible in TG with function nodes or careful combination of the built-in shaders that we've provided. Kadri's solution is a clever one, but the complexity of what you can do is still limited by how much work you put into placing the shaders and tweaking everything until it looks how you want.
You can use a pencil to draw a photorealistic image of a person's face if you're skilled enough and you spend enough time on it, but most people will prefer to use a camera. Kadri used the pencils that Terragen provided him, because it didn't give him the camera. :)
Matt
Not to stray too far from Kadri's 'liquid and collision detection test", but the ability to do so in TG (even on a limited basis) is worthy of more inquiry. However, since TG exists in a world of mature software(s) that already perform those functions at a robust level, it would be my wish that TG continues a development path to fully interact with those apps. In the meantime any insight into the mechanics of this demo would be highly appreciated.
;D well, regardless of if I am better with a pencil or a camera, or which I would prefer to be better with, this is a heck of a lot of fun for me. I guess really whatever way I do it, I just wish *I* was faster. But at least I'm stubborn, and that has helped ;)
And yes, Kadri should stop teasing! Lest s see how far this can be pushed! Remember Hannes' avalanche? lets see him use this to do a land slide :o
I agree with Matt that unforeseen things can be done in TG, it just needs a good brain to get the links between nodes right. Even real collision detection might be possible (carefully said). Warping for instance is done by the gray gradient, so you can bend a line around a soft simple shape. A personal salute to the one who finds out a (real) workable method :D
Thanks Matt and all of you!
And i will share it in a short time . Just having fun for a while ;)
Seriously there is another just a little harder scene i will try to make and see if this is only by luck getting the right numbers or not .
Yesterday i tried a basic thing and could not get it right(but it is different then this).
And that was to be an easy thing actually.
That is the different side for me in Terragen.
As we spoke with Ulco, sometimes hard things come out very easy and easy ones can get very frustrating :)
But it is fun so or so!
Kadri, on your first post for this thread, how did you get the video to be in there, rather than a link? Thanks.
---never mind, I think I figured it out---
^^ It was just a clip file. You can load that just as a jpg or anything else. But you can't load a video. However you can direct link to one you posted on youtube or vimeo or wherever, by clicking the "youtube" icon under "change color" ^^ in the control pallet of the reply section of a post.
I worked on this last year. You inspired me to revive it.
As you can see, it's a work in progress.
The goal here was to make the water billow up when the ball surfaced. Lots of work to do yet.
This is TG-2 (saving my pennies ;))[attach=1]
Well I figured some stuff out. Like how to make a smaller video ::)
Got a ripple out of it this time.
[attachimg=1]
I was re-reading the thread when I began to consider Ulco's challenge. I need to figure out how to use a render node to scan the terrain and objects to make a mask to for limiting a simple shape shader and "turn" it back on itself with a high reflective surface.
There, how's that that for fantastical thinking?
Russ
That's a very clever thought, Russ ;) But it will take a good deal of thinking to make that work. Especially the combination of objects and procedural is very hard, if not impossible, unless you use procedural masks to place the objects, like if you could take the seed from a populator and use that as some sort of mask..... but you can't.
Well, Planetside is not finished yet ::)
Hi Russ,
I edited this post. I looked again and saw you did just what I was thinking. I think you got pretty darn close too! Looks like timing needs a little work. And then the rest could be done in post.
Does the object have to be a TG internal object?
Anyway, the point I wanted to make again about all this is, that we don't really need to do this physics stuff perfectly real. Just get a good representation. Then compositing would look absolutely real!
Russ that looks nice :)
I tried to make a new scene last week but could only work two days.
And half of that was working for an usable transparency setting with only limited success.
I made another thread about that.
I am still working on an better liquid scene .
I wanted to share that new scene when i finished it.
But i suppose there isn't any reason to wait.
This is the scene file.
As you see it is only animation based .
Feel free to use it as you wish guys.
Oh yea, I should have offered my file too. not too sophisticated. Just a crater shader plugged into the water. See attached.
Some funny results if you disable the sphere. ;D
I can't wait to get your file Kadri. Just have to go earn a real living right now. I hate that.
Working now on a tsunami based on this. I'll post that in a new thread when something nice gets rendered.
Cheers,
Russ
Thanks for the file Russ and isn't it a sweet and different kind of Terragen side!
Curious about your tsunami scene :)
Matt, Jo please give us an option to be able to link and move nodes together.
That would be really helpful in general.
I plan to do another scene too after the current fluid project i am working.
Michael, it will indeed one with lava or similar probably. I haven't tried anything until now.
There are so many possibilities in the animation side of TG3.
It looks like a undiscovered country really.
I have another idea i hope nobody will try it until i made that volcanic scene :P
QuoteI have another idea i hope nobody will try it until i made that volcanic scene
Well it won't be me at least. I am perpetually behind schedule on my to do list. :( But One day I hope to have everything crossed off and no new ideas to add. That would be a good feeling for a moment! All finished ;D
"But One day I hope to have everything crossed off and no new ideas to add."
That is the nice part in a place like this there are always new ideas.
I wasn't going to do this if it wasn't because of your thread you know this Michael.
lol! Well at least I give people ideas sometimes! Thats something anyway :)
Well if you ever run out of stuff to do Kadri, I have a very long to do list filled with difficult things. Ill give you half if you like ;D Can't promise most of it is even possible. But after seeing whats been done here, who knows anymore?
:)