Planetside Software Forums

General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: j meyer on March 11, 2014, 12:54:37 PM

Title: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 11, 2014, 12:54:37 PM
Tried to use procedural shading only (except the license plates) for this
model.Amongst other things I wanted to try Matts advice to copy the parts
shader to coat more than one part and leave others untouched,which worked
great (the method).

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

I couldn't find a satisfying solution for the glass parts of the lights,though.
Neither the white nor the colored glass.
I know that this model is too low poly for close ups so it doesn't really matter,
but anyway...
The main problem is that the light doesn't really pass the object,so you never
get the second hightlight on the opposite side of the first highlight.And anything
inside the glass object won't get a highlight,too,just reflections.
That behaviour also causes the light of a lightsource inside a glass object to stay
inside that object instead of shining through the glass and illuminate the environ-
ment.
One more reason for better transparency.

Feel free to participate. ;)






Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on March 11, 2014, 01:04:50 PM

I think it looks quite good.
And yes we need better transparency.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: gregtee on March 11, 2014, 03:46:20 PM
I gather his vehicle's five year mission is to explore strange new procedural worlds.  To seek out new methods of transparency, and new rasterizations.

Ok, back to work.   
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 11, 2014, 05:02:26 PM
 ;D You nailed it!  ;D
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 12, 2014, 11:59:14 AM
Hey J,

On the model in the OP, was it UV mapped at all, or fully and properly UV mapped, or no mapping done at all?

To what advice from matt are you referring? Link?

I am asking because I have a model that is nearly done. Its of a greek empire ruin of a temple. On this model I modeled the crevices between most every stone (was going for realism on it). I have not mapped it though so the UVs look a mess. But I have read here that this may be a good thing when texturing procedurally. I can start testing on one of the columns, I have one properly mapped and I can test on one that is un mapped.

Some words of wisdom on this please?

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Hannes on March 12, 2014, 12:20:27 PM
NCC-1701-D  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 12, 2014, 01:41:38 PM
Thanks Kadri and Hannes. :)

Michael - Only the license plates were properly UV mapped to be able to
             use an image as texture.The rest had no UV mapping at all,just
             material groups.(any material assigned to a group of faces in Wings3d
             results in a model part with the according default shader inTG)
             This mix of UV mapped and non UV mapped parts can cause minor
             problems,though.I haven't been able to find out what exactly is causing
             these problems,yet.What happens is that some of the non UVed parts
             need to have Power Fractals applied in World Space just like the UV
             mapped parts and other non UVed parts don't.

             Matts advice:http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php     /topic,17600.msg170911.html#msg170911
       
             As for your model it depends on what you want to achieve.
             Like if you want the crevices and stuff to be visible in rather close ups
             under the most lighting conditions it's probably better to have the objects
             UV mapped and texture them traditionally.Or if you need AO maps to bring
             out certain recesses or so.
             In case you don't care about things like that it's definitely better and by far
             less time consuming also to use no UV mapping at all.
             The above is of course just an opinion and most likely incomplete.


Feel free to ask or contribute anyone.

Edit: I have to apologize for that not working link again.I have no idea why I can't
        post working links anymore. ::)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 12, 2014, 02:04:42 PM
QuoteNCC-1701-D
Star trek?

thanks J.

QuoteUV mapped parts can cause minor problems,though

To what precisely are you referring? Because If you are talking about the reflectivity, I was guessing that this is more a problem of the surface type. I mean, I wondered if the problem would not be an issue for a stone surface vs the metallic surfaces of the truck?
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 12, 2014, 02:23:51 PM
Quote from: TheBadger on March 12, 2014, 02:04:42 PM
QuoteNCC-1701-D
Star trek?

Aye,Star Trek,Next Generation to be precise.

Quote from: TheBadger on March 12, 2014, 02:04:42 PM
thanks J.

QuoteUV mapped parts can cause minor problems,though

To what precisely are you referring? Because If you are talking about the reflectivity, I was guessing that this is more a problem of the surface type. I mean, I wondered if the problem would not be an issue for a stone surface vs the metallic surfaces of the truck?

I'm refering to this (and was talking about the mix of UVed and non UVed parts)
Quote from: j meyer on March 12, 2014, 01:41:38 PM

           
             
             ......................What happens is that some of the non UVed parts
             need to have Power Fractals applied in World Space just like the UV
             mapped parts and other non UVed parts don't.
             .........................
             

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 12, 2014, 03:33:45 PM
Well I am definitely not looking for a "glossy" look laying over my textures. So thanks for the thread, and any answers that it will provide.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 12, 2014, 05:14:19 PM
I don't really get it,Michael,I didn't say anything about reflectivity or a glossy look
in the context of your questions at least not that I noticed.
Could there be some misunderstanding somewhere?
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 12, 2014, 05:55:37 PM
Hey J, I just re read this thread more carefully. probably that other thread you and I where talking about texturing in, in TG is where I need to post my questions. Apologies. I was thinking more generally than your specific topic.

I thought the problem you were posting on was how shinny the truck is on the shadow side compared to the side of the truck that is in the sun. And the glass issue (as in how the seats appear through the windows. The misunderstanding is mine. :-[
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 13, 2014, 12:17:09 PM
Noh prroblem mahn. ;)

And an attempt to make some kind of metallic shader.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

In comparison with the original color.

Has anybody noticed the paved road btw?
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 14, 2014, 09:41:33 AM
Yes, nice pavement! The problem with the glass not letting through any light can only be surpassed if you take out the lamps and save them as separate objects, and not have them throw shadows. I used that method for lanterns.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 14, 2014, 11:55:23 AM
Ulco - I'll have to try that,but it sounds like the lights wouldn't cast
         shadows then,which might look odd.
         Anyway,thanks for the suggestion.
         Didn't you do something with light cones on a car way back when?



Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 14, 2014, 12:01:23 PM
And two more metallic shader attempts.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

The last one is actually the shading that is on the exhaust just put
on the body parts.
And the sticker is done by camera projection.

Feel free to ask and/or to contribute!
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 14, 2014, 12:38:55 PM
What happened to the seats?

Regarding the lights: I did (I think). But if you want light sources (or spotlights) inside your 'lights' (behind the glass) then that glass object (now a part of the whole car) should be separate and you can uncheck throw shadows. That's what I mean. The parts around the glass would still throw shadows, or anyone standing in front of the lights. 
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 14, 2014, 01:10:17 PM
The seats are still where they have been all the time.The light grey edgey
things inside.Maybe it looks different because I've changed the reflectiveness
of the inner body parts.

Thanks for making that clearer,I assumed at first I should uncheck cast shadows
for the light now I see you meant to turn that off for the separate object.
I'll give it a try tonight.


As for the minor problem with the mix of UVed and non UVed parts when I connected
the shaders of the exhaust to the body parts it worked as is for the front part,but for
the back and the roof another Transform Shader set to World Space was needed,although
all of these parts are non UVed.And so far I haven't been able to find out what causes this.
Maybe something in the modeling process.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 14, 2014, 01:12:49 PM
I had some issues a while back with unmapped parts that turned totally black, so I just map them (any which way in Poseray).
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 15, 2014, 11:28:46 AM
Unmapped parts turning black? Hmmm,never had that one with wings3d,but wings is
very TG friendly anyway,fortunately.

Tried the suggested light workaround,works great! Thanks!
Hopefully I won't forget it again. ;)

[attach=1]

Done with spotlights

[attach=2]

Plus a bit of aperture,which causes the rings visible in the lights.
A bit more and those things look more like dark cones inside the
reflectors of the lights.




Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 15, 2014, 01:21:49 PM
Top!
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: gregtee on March 15, 2014, 02:23:03 PM
I think the truck is cool but I really like the road it's sitting on.  I'd like to know more about that.

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 15, 2014, 04:55:56 PM
^^Me also! 
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: yossam on March 15, 2014, 05:31:36 PM
Make it 3............. :)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on March 15, 2014, 05:33:57 PM

Looks great!
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 16, 2014, 11:31:12 AM
 :) Thanks for your interest.
The pavement is done with a procedural mask (yes,the dreaded blue nodes)
and some Power Fractal displacement on top of it.
I'm going to post some example files in the File Sharing section for you to
play with.


If the community is interested I'd be willing to share one version of the car also.

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 16, 2014, 11:49:07 AM
QuoteIf the community is interested I'd be willing to share one version of the car also.

Im just interested in the tires. They look pretty real to me. Are they higher polly? And the rubber shading looks good too. Looks like sport truck tires should, almost hard surface, but clearly rubber. The treads really work well too.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 17, 2014, 12:59:53 PM
Michael - Aaawww,what's wrong with it? Not enough chromium parts?
             The missing weaponry? (just kidding,no worry  ;) )
             
             As for the tires I'd consider them  to be not really low poly anymore,
             but on the other hand not quite midpoly yet.
 
             Take a look yourself
         
             [attach=1]
       
             The tread parts have creased edges (or hard edges as it's called in wings3d).
             That way TGs normal smoothing doesn't affect those edges and they render
             pretty sharp.(the backside view shows it clearly,other parts too)
             The rubber shading is quite easy.The trick is to use a reflection tint that is
             not to far away from the actual rubber color.
             For example: Take a Power Fractal set the scale sliders to something you
             think matches the object (tire) size,then set the colors to e.g. 0.005 and
             0.007 set the other parameters to your liking and then feed it into a
             reflective shader with ray traced reflections turned off and set the reflection
             tint color to say 0.03 or so,Index of Reflection to 1.5 and the specular
             roughness to 0.25.
             Connect that to the grey part node instead of the default shader and
             you're done.


I've tried to model this rather low poly car especially for use in TG with procedural shading.
And I also tried to set up my material groups in a way that allows for changes of geometry
and additions thereof easily.
As you might have noticed I've shown two different versions so far (five doors+three doors).
But I have done the shader set up only once and imported the different versions into the
existing obj reader and it works great,even with slightly different file names.
Tried to import one with 1 material group more and even that worked to a certain degree.
Meaning it rendered ok,but the new shader didn't show up amongst the others.

So here it is again showing a third version with more parts added.

[attach=2]


So since only the rubber shader was mentioned let me ask you guys directly:
What do you think about the other shaders?
What should be improved and how?


Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 17, 2014, 01:11:24 PM
I think it's quite perfect and you've done a terrific job. Perhaps a little dirt on the windows as well. And I still have a problem with the seats; they look so 'transparent grey'.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 17, 2014, 01:31:00 PM
Yep,some dirt on the windows,wanted to do that,but then started thinking about
wiper tracks and how to do that without UVs and/or image mask.
Or just a clean spot wiped by hand and then I totally forgot to do it at all.Doh.
I'm not sure what to do to the seats to make them look better,but yes something
has to be done.
Good feedback,thanks!
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: jaf on March 17, 2014, 01:36:06 PM
Great work!  I would really be interested in the setting you use for your procedural shading the model.

Have you checked how much memory your scene uses (wondering about the difference between it and uv/image mapping?)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 17, 2014, 03:14:15 PM
What exactly do you mean by "...setting you use for your procedural shading..." ?

So far I haven't checked the memory in use,but I'll do that tonight and tell you
tomorrow.But I don't have a similar UV mapped and image textured model to
compare to,so this would be up to you.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 17, 2014, 06:26:05 PM
Thanks for all the info J.

QuoteWhat should be improved and how?
To me its just to shiny. I have a 4x4 truck, but there is no where near the amount of dirt as in your scene where I live. And yet, though I keep it clean and waxed, it is never that shiny. :-[

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: yossam on March 17, 2014, 06:41:12 PM
Wax on wax off..................... ::)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on March 17, 2014, 07:06:32 PM
Quote from: j meyer on March 16, 2014, 11:31:12 AM
:) Thanks for your interest.
The pavement is done with a procedural mask (yes,the dreaded blue nodes)
and some Power Fractal displacement on top of it.
I'm going to post some example files in the File Sharing section for you to
play with.


If the community is interested I'd be willing to share one version of the car also.


I for one would love to have that truck...best of it's type I've seen....well done. Wings3D you say...must give that another look.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: jaf on March 17, 2014, 08:23:34 PM
Quote from: j meyer on March 17, 2014, 03:14:15 PM
What exactly do you mean by "...setting you use for your procedural shading..." ?

I was thinking what the nodes looked like, but I just realized you can supply the tgd with the model too.

I need to spend more time with TG!  Trying to learn Substance Designer, Unity, World Machine, etc. at the same time is tough.

By the way, check this out: http://www.allegorithmic.com/products/substance-indie-pack

[edit] That should have been "I was thinking what the nodes looked like, but I just realized you can't supply the tgd with the model too."
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 18, 2014, 03:38:19 AM
You could use a camera projected half circle image map, or maybe even a rotated simple shape, for the windscreen wipe effect. Or just map the glass.

Has anyone tested that substance indie pack?
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 18, 2014, 01:01:10 PM
jaf - Memory used for the model as seen in the last pic shown above placed in
       the default scene is 1.99GB maximum.
       Of course I could share the tgd together with the model in principle,but why?
       The nodes in question are in the internal of the obj or tgo node anyway.
       And the environment nodes minus some stacked fake stones can be seen in
       the PavedRoad tgd that has been shared already.
       I could show a nodeview or a couple of those here,if you want,although it's
       pretty messy right now.
       Just let me know what you want to know/see.


Michael - The shinyness (reflectivity) is adjustable. ;)
             

Bobby -  ;D Let's see...   
            Wings3D is definitely worth a try.Once you're familiar with it you can set up
            your models there,no need for poseray any more.And 1meter in W3d is 1meter
            in TG and more.Very TG friendly.


Ulco - Indeed,or a piece of geometry,but I was trying to think of a solution that suits
         more than one scenario and got stuck there.Intellectual jam rather.
         Same for the tires,I thought of various options and found it too difficult to come up
         with a solution that works for all possible circumstances.Like dry hard surfaces,
         or dry and dusty or wet and hard and so on.At last I decided to use the easiest
         solution for now.
         
         Thanks for thinking along.


Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 19, 2014, 12:24:25 PM
In the meantime I've made some changes to the seats shader and put the
same light dust layer that's on the body parts onto the windows.(hardly
noticeable as on the roof.The heavier dirt as seen on the lower body and the
wheels would be inappropriate on the windows unless it would be all over the
body or at least going up much higher than now.)
And I did something else to hopefully improve it a bit more.Eager to see
if someone will notice what. ;)

[attach=1]

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 19, 2014, 12:44:41 PM
The seats are really good now, very important improvement. And now you see the sheen on the steering wheel, or is that the other improvement?
I'll drive away in this, any time. Great job, and if you're going to share, I won't object  ;)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 19, 2014, 02:06:17 PM
 ;D Yep,that is due to the other improvement.Well spotted!

[attach=1]

Another effect of that is visible here
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: inkydigit on March 20, 2014, 09:28:09 AM
outstanding texture work... I would love a spin in this!
:)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 21, 2014, 01:24:37 PM
Thanks J. :)


Hope to get the clean up of the shader network done tonight.

As for sharing the model I asked myself wouldn't it be nice to make it a
Planetside Forums members only thing.And wouldn't it be even nicer if
everyone interested could have the version he/she likes best?
So,since I can't post the model here,because of the size limit,I pondered on
and mused over it and then it dawned on me.
What if I post a list of the possible options available and you make your own
choice and PM me and I email you the version you want?
Just copy the list and add a yes or no behind every item so that I know which
version you'd like to get and send me a Personal Message with the email address
you want it to be sent to.
It's a bit more than just clicking a download button,but heeeyyy... ;)

The list will be in a separate post for your convenience.

I like that idea and hope you do too.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 21, 2014, 01:39:17 PM
                                    LR110 - Terragen Special Edition
         
                                                     options

Version A - 5 doors

Version B - 3 doors

Steering guard - bar
         or
Steering guard - plate

Bull bar + 2 lights

2 Front recovery points + shackles

Snorkel

Roof rack,long (5 clamps)

Roof rack,short (4 clamps)

Separate glass objects to install working lights

Separate windows object for specular highlights on interior parts etc.


Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on March 22, 2014, 04:43:29 AM
I like the idea, so gonna mail you....
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on March 22, 2014, 11:51:08 AM
I as well...customized down loads...love it
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 22, 2014, 12:41:18 PM
Cool! I'm really glad you guys like the idea.

Cleaning the network is done.Now I only have to write some notes and
to do the assembly and then shipping.

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: choronr on March 24, 2014, 01:25:33 AM
Thank you Jochen, received the model file early this evening and just started to open it and are doing some studying. Looking forward to using it in my latest project.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 25, 2014, 08:02:02 PM
Thanks J.

I think I was confused by something someone wrote.
Will I be able to see your shading work. Or is this TGO only with no shading (no TGD)? I don't have any scenes now or planed that I need a car. But I would love to see how you did all of you work in TG on your model. Would that be possible, or am I taking advantage of your generous nature? Dont be pressured and feel free to say no. But thats the part I personally am interested in.

Thanks for everything else too.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on March 25, 2014, 09:09:39 PM
It's quite good as a  'model as tutorial' on shaders TheBadger.....been quite a few revelations so far.
a TGD is essentially a scene file but this is a .tgo, fully textured.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: TheBadger on March 25, 2014, 11:37:27 PM
Ah, so its completely finished as a TGO. Not a raw model that we should texture our selves? Well ok, then now finally I understand the point of all this perfectly ;D HA! Its cold out here in the dark.

TY

By the way. The last image on the last page looks like a photo to me. If I saw it on the web someplace else i would just think it was a photo. I would have to really get my eyeballs in there to pick out any CG.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on March 25, 2014, 11:47:29 PM

Very nice shading.It looks great!
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on March 26, 2014, 12:43:26 PM
Thanks Kadri! :)

Indeed,as Bobby already pointed out,it comes fully textured,Michael.
Just the metallic shader attempts are not included,but I could post
them here,if you or anyone else wants to see those,too.
The texturing a raw model contest/competition will follow later on,maybe
as a part of the quarterly owners club meetings.  (a joke of course!)
And don't miss the Terragen Explorers Trophy!  ;)


This is a very nice experience so far. :)



Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on March 26, 2014, 01:35:25 PM
Quote from: j meyer on March 26, 2014, 12:43:26 PM
Thanks Kadri! :)

Indeed,as Bobby already pointed out,it comes fully textured,Michael.
Just the metallic shader attempts are not included,but I could post
them here,if you or anyone else wants to see those,too.
The texturing a raw model contest/competition will follow later on,maybe
as a part of the quarterly owners club meetings.  (a joke of course!)
And don't miss the Terragen Explorers Trophy!  ;)


This is a very nice experience so far. :)





I'd be up for that but as I'm functionally colour blind I'd have to be allowed to use image maps as well....but TG has them for folks like me...gratefully
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 07, 2014, 11:03:38 AM
And a crappy rudimentary Lopo driver.
Should be sufficient enough for anything but close ups,hopefully.

[attachimg=1]

Most likely it won't fit with other car models.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on April 07, 2014, 12:26:09 PM
Cool...that'll fill the empty spot and fine for medium distance shots which most of my stuff involving autos in a scene are....most generous and thoughtful.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on April 07, 2014, 12:47:01 PM
That's super of you, Jochen. Just what was needed to get this (terrific) thing moving.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: choronr on April 07, 2014, 01:34:46 PM
Thank you Jochen for your generosity; and, this will fit perfectly.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on April 07, 2014, 04:59:49 PM
Quote from: Dune on April 07, 2014, 12:47:01 PM
That's super of you, Jochen. Just what was needed to get this (terrific) thing moving.


sly pun Dune....hee hee hee
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 08, 2014, 10:58:52 AM
Thanks guys,glad you find it acceptable. :)

Inspired by Ulcos awesome maglev pic with the noisy light beam
I tried it myself yesterday and this is what I ended up with.

[attach=1]

Atmo quality set to 64 samples
cloud layers Edge sharpness set to 0.25;anything else on that tab default;
quality set to 18.(it started to look better at qual 12,but was still too much)
Rendertime increase about 40-50%.In other words from e.g. 10min to 15min.
Imagine that with soft shadows on. ;)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on April 08, 2014, 11:20:32 AM
It looks great but, you must explain the settings more. Quality 18!  :o That's the render quality? Was it the high atmo settings that reduced grain? Was it necessary, the 64 I mean? And did you use a light source or spotlight? The latter probably if you say there's no soft shadows on.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 08, 2014, 12:20:41 PM
As you have noticed yourself meanwhile  18 is the cloud quality.
Render quality and AA were at default iirc.
As for the grain reduction the grain seems to be in the atmo and the clouds
so actually it was necessary to go with increasing both atmo samples and
cloud quality.Maybe 48 samples (atmo) would do aswell,was running out of
time so I went from 32 samples,which was definitely not enough,to 64 samples
directly.
Yes,spotlights.


Edit:Render detail was 0.6,not default.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on April 08, 2014, 01:21:37 PM
Coincidentally I have been working with the spotlight for Ade's lighthouse and came up with this. I found the most improvement, after I reached the default limits in the Free version, was to boost the spotlight soft shadow samples. In this they are set to 30 with max defaults on the render, no messing with GI or AO in this. This tiny render took 1:20:37 to render so a 1270x714(free max size I prefer)I reckon it would be close to 24 hours.

I should add that I used the Atmosphere and not a cloud fog. I set the samples to 160(just added a zero to the default, lazy I know)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 09, 2014, 11:12:28 AM
Wowie zowie Bobby and still some noise visible,too bad.
Like Ulco said,better no light beams for the time being.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 11:34:34 AM

Actually it is interesting that the sun light source is so faster to render then the other lights.
I would like to know why that is if it is easy to tell someone like me who doesn't do programming.
But in this state i don't use them at all. A faster solution would be fine.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on April 09, 2014, 11:38:24 AM
You're right. What I saw in the spotlight is that especially in the 'small end' the light is more intense and the grain more prominent. Perhaps further away more 'particles' are lit and so they even out. Just guessing.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 11:56:12 AM

Yes maybe Ulco.
I have a feeling (that is probably 100% wrong :D ) that Matt used kinda the same sun light as spotlights.
But the Sun's most intense light parts -especially as you said Ulco- are out of the atmosphere.
But the spotlights doesn't have that chance.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 09, 2014, 12:53:51 PM
Some remarks by Matt on that topic shure would be enlightening.

Kadri have you tried spotlights outside the atmo already?(spaceships or so)
And maybe one could try a sun as lightsource for headlights or in a lighthouse?
But,I assume we would encounter the "light through" effect perhaps.
Maybe worth a try.
There are other issues,too,especially in conjunction with transparency.
For example:lets say you have a rectangular frame with glass panes,
like an aquarium,but with colored glass.Now put a lightsource,which is
set to be visible,into that aquarium and hit render.While rendering you'll
see that lightsource as a bright disc,but as soon as the colored panes
are rendered there's no more visible lightsource,only the shine of the
emitted light.You can still see the inner backside of your aquarium,
but not the visible lightsource.
And the light shining through your colored glass will be white and not of
the color of the tinted glass.But that's a different story.(Missing volumetrics
for water related,I'd guess.)

Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 01:20:24 PM

I tried these:

[attachimg=1]


[attachimg=3]


[attachimg=2]

That landscape is lighted only by one spotlight probably as far as the sun nearly.
Render times are very fast.
In all 3 images is a planet in the middle but moved just a little in every image.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 01:22:49 PM
Settings of the spotlight:

[attachimg=1]


Full strenght number is this : 800 000 000 000 000 000


[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 09, 2014, 01:50:46 PM
Quote from: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 11:56:12 AM
.....
But the Sun's most intense light parts -especially as you said Ulco- are out of the atmosphere.
But the spotlights doesn't have that chance.


Ok,obviously I misunderstood your previous remark.

Nice noise free examples,thanks for showing. :)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 02:14:49 PM
:)
The originals look much better.

I haven't tried your setup you wrote but transparency still does have it's own problems.
If you use it for a lake kinda scene it works because as Planetside said before it was build for this basically.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on April 10, 2014, 02:52:57 AM
Interesting, have to try that glass+ light thing some time, as well as the 'spotlight as sun'. Spotlight will only be visible as a beam if you have atmosphere. I noticed that also sunlight will produce more grain in clouds and atmo near the sun.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on April 10, 2014, 06:44:09 AM
Interesting ain't it...Terragen2/3 has been out years now and we're still discovering stuff about the sun and atmo...
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on April 10, 2014, 11:43:27 AM
Yes,interesting it is.

Of course I wanted to try the sunlight as lightsource thing,but,alas,
no success.At least I had a good laugh at myself. ;)
As for the grain in atmo and clouds near the sun my guess is that it has to
do with the "nature" of clouds and haze.(voxels?)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on December 11, 2014, 12:57:02 PM
Unfortunately I have to inform you that the Glass parts,
especially the windows don't render like before anymore
in TG 3.2. My guess is that the new Glass shaders feature
where you can choose if the geometry is treated as one-sided
or two-sided has changed the water shaders behaviour also,in
that this feature should have been added to the water shader
to make models that use this shader work like before.
The water shader now seems to treat a surface as two-sided
always,I assume.
[attachimg=1]

So,unless Matt knows an easy fix for that,we have to replace
every water+refl shader combi on our models with the new
glass shader.

Sorry for that inconvenience.
Let me know if you need assistance.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 11, 2014, 01:19:22 PM
I suspected that would happen....well at least there's a Glass shader now.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Matt on December 11, 2014, 05:56:15 PM
Can you paste (or upload) your water shader settings here?

Matt
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 11, 2014, 09:34:42 PM
Well Jochen, I had a play with the Land Rover; just copied your settings from the Water shader over to the Glass shader and tweaked the reflection to match your Reflection shader. Didn't touch all the other Reflection shaders and to me they all look hotter/better than the last time I rendered this.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 11, 2014, 09:46:30 PM
This is what they are, running through a Reflective shader
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Matt on December 12, 2014, 12:46:12 AM
Thanks for screenshots, Bobby.

Matt
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Matt on December 12, 2014, 12:46:17 AM
I hadn't tested the combination of Water Shader and Reflective Shader when making these changes for 3.2. The Water Shader on its own should be fine, but the Reflective Shader now works differently when looking through a surface from the inside (when the normal faces away from the viewer). I'll see if it's a bug that can be fixed, but at this point I don't know if that's possible. I don't like to break backward compatibility, but in this case you might need to replace the water+reflective setup with just a Glass Shader. That's how an object like this should be set up in the long run, anyway.

Matt
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Matt on December 12, 2014, 12:55:02 AM
Yeah, this is a new bug with the Reflective Shader that I'll need to fix, because it's affecting other situations even without combining with the Water Shader. I'll get on it...

Matt
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 12, 2014, 02:12:54 AM
Quote from: Matt on December 12, 2014, 12:55:02 AM
Yeah, this is a new bug with the Reflective Shader that I'll need to fix, because it's affecting other situations even without combining with the Water Shader. I'll get on it...

Matt


I personally find the Glass shader more than adequate and as indicated I transferred the settings's from the Reflective to the Glass...ticket boo it works good. See my image previous. Like the new Reflective shader btw. What happened to fuzzy reflections. That whole part is gone and isn't added to the glass; tho that would be cool as well.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on December 12, 2014, 02:25:19 AM
Reflection softness is still there, Bobby.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 12, 2014, 02:59:20 AM
Quote from: Dune on December 12, 2014, 02:25:19 AM
Reflection softness is still there, Bobby.

D'oh, of course it is...must be my desire to have it in the Glass shader creepin in. That's really the trick to diffuse glass(office door windows), blurred reflection anyway.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on December 12, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
Thanks for helping out Bobby! :)

Thank you Matt! Good to know about the reflective shader.
And of course it's no biggie to change to the glass shader.

Oh and Bobby,for office doors and the like it might be better
to use a masked surface layer instead of soft reflections.
Should save render time at least.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 12, 2014, 11:30:15 AM
Quote from: j meyer on December 12, 2014, 11:09:03 AM
Thanks for helping out Bobby! :)

Thank you Matt! Good to know about the reflective shader.
And of course it's no biggie to change to the glass shader.

Oh and Bobby,for office doors and the like it might be better
to use a masked surface layer instead of soft reflections.
Should save render time at least.

Indeed it would, that was just an off the top of my head example.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 12, 2014, 08:47:03 PM
Sorta on the same track; We have Stained Glass.This uses Ulco's Bee's wing technique with an additional I think, Reflective shader.
I've packed the folder up if anyone want's to test this out. All the images needed are in the rar file. Just extract it to where you kep your projects and double click the .tgd and it should load fine.


Ooops it didn't load right, this is the correct .tgd. Just over  write the other one. :-[
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 12, 2014, 11:40:34 PM
Let me know if you all think this is worthy of being posted to File Sharing and I'll upload a corrected .rar file there.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Dune on December 13, 2014, 02:28:34 AM
Great Bobby, thanks! It looks really good.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: WAS on December 13, 2014, 04:16:50 AM
This looks awesome, though the only thing I see with the inital images that is off is the dust appears to be under your reflective surface, so it disappears in the back shadow preview.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on December 13, 2014, 10:40:02 AM
Nice Stained Glass Bobby.
Reminds me of our Stoned Glass experiments from way back when. ;)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 13, 2014, 10:51:32 AM
Quote from: j meyer on December 13, 2014, 10:40:02 AM
Nice Stained Glass Bobby.
Reminds me of our Stoned Glass experiments from way back when. ;)

Yeah it's coming along but they still don't pass the light through, no beams yet. Seems to need a light from the front as well as behind  for the transparency to work. In Imagine3d this was all done with filters in the attributes and that was a 1995 program....drives me nuts that TG can't do it all these years later
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: j meyer on December 16, 2014, 01:10:37 PM
Hey ho,members of the owner's club,thanks to Matt's quick fix
the file works again.So no need for you to futz with it,unless
you want to.
[attachimg=1]

Thank you Matt,really quick man,much appreciated! 8)
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 16, 2014, 07:03:03 PM
Quote from: j meyer on December 16, 2014, 01:10:37 PM
Hey ho,members of the owner's club,thanks to Matt's quick fix
the file works again.So no need for you to futz with it,unless
you want to.
[attachimg=1]

Thank you Matt,really quick man,much appreciated! 8)

Did I miss a download? I haven't changed/added anything since this version came out.
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: Matt on December 16, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
If you're on Windows or Linux, we released another update yesterday to fix the reflection bug. For the Mac, we're addressing another bug (saving clip files) before we release another update, but it should be ready soon.

Matt
Title: Re: Procedural shaders for models
Post by: bobbystahr on December 16, 2014, 08:48:12 PM
Quote from: Matt on December 16, 2014, 08:46:19 PM
If you're on Windows or Linux, we released another update yesterday to fix the reflection bug. For the Mac, we're addressing another bug (saving clip files) before we release another update, but it should be ready soon.

Matt


Thanks Matt