Planetside Software Forums

Hi,

Well I have been reading up as much as I have been able to find direct statements on modo 701.
Was looking for more info though and hoping some from around here who use modo (especially on the job) could tell me more about it.

And hey Greg at DD; the interwebernet says DD uses Modo in production. Can you comment on it? I'll listen to anything you want to say, but down below are some general questions I have.


First things first.
It looks like upgrades are paid. But what is the service plan? For pre release 701 was a free upgrade at old prices for users. But the final release raised prices. What will it cost to go from 701 up to the next version when they make one? Could not locate that from my search. I tried the modo page but I did not see the update policy though it must be there somewhere?

Modo701 is now "end to end" The full Monty I guess. GOOD! From what I read its all there, but too new for lots of examples of projects done in Modo in the same way one could use Maya. I'm really in need of some user feedback from someone who knows:

1) Have you rigged an animated in modo (characters)? How do find it? Iv read its all there but not that easy to get on with.

2) I have read that rendering can be buggy. And that this can be a real problem for animation. Is that true?

3) On animation again, how do you find doing faces and such?

4) Particles are good but not a straight forward process "like in maya"?

5) everything everywhere says nothing beats Modo for modeling. Agree or disagree?

6) say anything you like

I have to say, I like modo and luxology. They look like their looking to the future rather than trying to hold on to norms. And I like that MODO as a full package is still so new that it will likely not grow faster than I can learn it, if I start soon.

I had some difficulty finding examples of photo real animation from it. Anyone here know of some examples? I generally think of the human face (or some animals) as the best way to judge what software will allow for. That is, (all users being equal) if you can get a super real human face and animation out of the software, then its just a question of cost and method. Have any of you seen a photo real MODO human?

Modo is affordable for a long term investment for someone like me, who knows I will have a long term interest. But while 1500 beats the hell out of Autodesk prices, that still ain't cheap. I'm prepared to commit, but I could use a bit of guidance

Have you already bought Modo?

My answers below are in bold.

Quote from: TheBadger on April 04, 2014, 08:36:31 AM


It looks like upgrades are paid. But what is the service plan?
No service plan. Just per version upgrade. Next one, for example, is 801.

What will it cost to go from 701 up to the next version when they make one?
No one is certain what The Foundry might do.


1) Have you rigged andanimated in modo (characters)? How do find it?
No. Well, a little. But, the new ACS Kit has helped tremendously. Modo really lacks what even a package like Lightwave presently has.


2) I have read that rendering can be buggy. And that this can be a real problem for animation. Is that true?
Rendering is not buggy. It is intricate. You can usually render pretty well at defaults, but there is a sort of process of constant tweaking to get it "perfect". This is for just about everyone on The Foundry's site, experts and others like me.


3) On animation again, how do you find doing faces and such?
Faces are always difficult, but the morphs and assistance from others in the forum and even the ACS Kit make it easier. Not a final solution.


4) Particles are good but not a straight forward process "like in maya"?
Not hardly. Just beginning. Looks promising...or so people are hoping, since Nuke and Mari are so awesome.


5) everything everywhere says nothing beats Modo for modeling. Agree or disagree?
Modeling has some very good points. The interface is friendly and usable and configurable. The new MeshFusion has changed everything. If you haven't seen it in action, please look into this to see its beauty.



I have to say, I like modo and luxology. They look like their looking to the future rather than trying to hold on to norms. And I like that MODO as a full package is still so new that it will likely not grow faster than I can learn it, if I start soon.

Nothing is ready for complete realistic, especially at the level of Modo. Modo is still relatively new in the 3D modeling space. It's useful and has even a long time evangelist of Lightwave (William Vaughan) fully committing to Modo with some very good tutorials and insights. He's in love with MeshFusion.  Did I already mention how awesome MeshFusion is?  :-*  Modo's render is really one of the best in the industry and I believe it will be even better in the future.

Thank you much.

And yes I know that they have their own forum, but I wanted to hear from people I have some experience with first. I am sure I will get more in depth answers from the MODO site. But I already trust you guys. You all usually get me on the right path. And the user experience in this forum should never be discounted. Besides, Im a timid mouse  ;) I need to take baby steps when talking about 1500 bucks  ;D

Probably I like Maya more than I let on, but at 3500, plus plugins, plus bugs... you know.

No I have not bought it yet. But Im getting pretty close to pay some people some money time, :-\ Of course I always hear DandelO in the back of my mind saying Carrara for cost and ease of use. But I tend to guess that Modo would develop faster and more in a way that I need. But I just guess.

Im pretty convinced that Modo will be a good bet especially in the long run. TG has, it has developed pretty nicely I think. I guess more than anything I wanted to make sure there was not anyone around here who would have a reason to scream NO STOP DONT DO IT!
MODO IS TERRIBLE, BECAUSE...

I still think that the best answer is in the link below Michael.
Especially if you think about that Maya is one of the best regarded software around.
Not that this bothers me at all as a Lightwave user :D

http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/trymodo/

Hi kadri, http://vimeo.com/87854599  :o :o :o Well, Im completely sold on this mesh fusion stuff!  :o
Maya seems like an antique by comparison.

If I could just be sure about humanoids and animation I would be totally sold on MODO. Oh, and rendering too. But like I said, I am willing to give modo extra slack because they are pushing forward. Much like planetside, they seem really committed to the future. And that buys a lot of patience from me, because I know they will get where they said they were going.

I will try that download Kadi. But I don't have much faith Ill learn what I need, to be sure, in only 15 days. But I can at least try.
My fear is that I really can't afford to be wrong. Im happy to pay for software, I just need to make the right choice. Thats why Im so back and forth in all of these treads, I just can't afford to be wrong again.

By the way, where is Tangled Universe and Oshyan?! They always have detailed and informative posts on all these topics. But I haven't seen a post from Martin in forever, and Oshyan is in and out (where you guys at?)

@rcallicotte
Hey, I remember you brought up mesh fusion before in another thread. Thanks for getting the thing in my head. I really need to sit for a long time with this stuff. But since I saw it a while ago, Im really feeling better about it now. (See link above) Its really impressive!

For me it is not always which software is the best.
Equally important is if i like the Gui,workflow and generally the feel of the software if that makes any sense.
That is very subjective of course.
So i mostly try to stay away from such threads and mostly (especially on other forums)
these kind of threads doesn't end much in a positive way.

As i said many times before Zbrush for example is really a great software.
But i don't like it.
That link was for these side mostly.
Because you already own one of the big software already.

Regarding this or that feature you can not find anyone that does have all or the best features etc.
I would lurk in every forum and find especially the threads
where everybody complains about the software they use
and say that "the competitors have this or that and why not us".
Every software does have those kind of threads :)
But in the end i wouldn't buy anything that i haven't tried at all
only because that everybody says that is the best program around.
I used the free version of Terragen for 2 or 3 years before i bought it for example.

You are absolutely right Kadri.
Im just ready to go on my projects now. And I want to make them on softwares I own rights too. I don't want to take another year before I start producing. Its closing in on decision time for me. But I thank you for your sobriety. I get a little frantic with this stuff.

I realize Im not a studio, and that I will not have the resources of a studio. So everything will take me much longer, be much harder, and Im going to have to face some difficult problem solving. I just want to finish some things I started with as little pain as I can  ;D

There's quite a few modelers at DD that use Modo.  Our development guy uses it almost exclusively. 

Do you know if anyone at your place has tried to use it to animate on a formal project, or even when just experimenting, Greg? Or do you just stick to the more traditional animation workflows? Again, especially interested in if I can get by with modo for complex character rigging and animating. I know already that Modo is rather new to that game, but if you know that DD has had some joy, It would be cool to hear about it.

But thanks for responding Greg. Im just trying to get as sure as I can is all before spending a fist full.

This was made by an expert using Modo and Lightwave - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doteMqP6eSc

MeshFusion is a game changer. But, it also brings up something I like about both Modo and Lightwave - innovation and willingness to do new things that people really want without bloat.

One thing to think about - what do you want to do? What do you want to learn to do? Lightwave is better at some things (like animation and Bullet) than Modo, which is better at ease of modeling as well as (dare I say it again? - MeshFusion). Of course, Lightwave is solid and fun to use. Blender is awesome, too, don't forget. With people like Jonathan Williamson and others so willing to teach (CG Cookie) and who always seem to be trying something cool (like Andrew Price, etc.) in Blender, it's worth some time to see what it's like at the newest 2.7 version.

Of course, then there's Houdini, which has a really low entry cost and which seems to be an all around good package. I have looked at Houdini quite a few times, but I can only get so much under my belt. If I was starting fresh, I would probably find as much objective information as I could about Houdini. This is especially true, if you have any plans to do major VFx work. Otherwise, Blender, Modo and Lightwave are all good entry points.

As for stability, Modo has improved in the last few years by a lot.

Cinema4D is pretty nice, too, but it might be too much to pay for all of the special packaging, etc.

Quote from: TheBadger on April 04, 2014, 11:46:35 PM
@rcallicotte
Hey, I remember you brought up mesh fusion before in another thread. Thanks for getting the thing in my head. I really need to sit for a long time with this stuff. But since I saw it a while ago, Im really feeling better about it now. (See link above) Its really impressive!

We pretty much use Modo just for modeling and it's renderer for concept art.  The modelers love it, and our concept guy uses it for modeling and some rendering though he also uses Vray in Maya too. 

We don't do any animation with the package.  It's been a while since I've used it but as I recall animation wasn't the package's strong suit.  It seemed to have a nice renderer and it's modeling capabilities were very strong.  We use Vray and Maya almost exclusively for the majority of our workflows. 

Thanks Greg.

Thanks rcallicotte.

Actually I have been looking and looking, and animation in modo looks ok. ITs just young I think. but it has what I need. I think it will develop over time and in the end be a superior animator. If they continue to develop the newer features to the level of their modeling... :)
Looks like that is what they plan to do too.

I found this article that you may find interesting. They mention DD in here too, Greg. http://www.awn.com/vfxworld/review-can-modo-701-make-its-mark-animation-and-vfx
From that I found this animation. All done using MODO http://www.themegaplush.com

Quote from: TheBadger on April 06, 2014, 06:56:01 PM
... I think it will develop over time and in the end be a superior animator. If they continue to develop the newer features to the level of their modeling... :)
Looks like that is what they plan to do too.
...

OK this will sound a little donnish(!) Michael but buying a software for what it will be or can be is always a gamble.
Especially if you think about the marketing ramble they do to bring new users or hold the old ones etc.

You are right. But it nice to have some future too.

I went to the MODO forums to ask basically the same stuff I have asked here. While I was looking around in their forums I found the user Image and animation section. OF course the images all looked really awesome. But the question is about animation. And there too things looked really promising. And I even managed to find a human animation of "Ben Kngsley" by this artist here : http://www.tkio.net/Welcome.html
you can see a still of it in the gallery. Though I don't have a link for the animations. They are hosted on the forums and not links from youtube (which is a strange thing).

So I feel like MODO can do everything I'm interested in. But now I have to figure out if it is something *I* can do on MODO. As we all know, some people just get things naturally, and the rest of us have to work our arses off. How hard Modo will make me work is the question.

Check out the galleries and animation section there Kadri. I value your opinion and voice on many issues and would like to hear how you think MODO compares to lightwave which is another option for me in terms of cost.

Quote from: TheBadger on April 06, 2014, 11:01:27 PM
...
I value your opinion and voice on many issues and would like to hear how you think
MODO compares to lightwave which is another option for me in terms of cost.

That is a hard question.
I stay away from saying anything directly about this mostly.
Lightwave was in a crisis for some years because of the things that
happened when the original programmers departed and begun to work on Modo.
Since 2-3 years Lightwave took a positive direction ones more.
But it still does have some rough sides to be polished.
And what happens to it is probably depending on the 12 and 13 versions (it is now at 11.61) .
With some plugins like LWCad (http://www.wtools3d.com/) ,
Rhiggid (http://www.rebelhill.net/html/rhiggit.html) for example it is still very nice and better in some aspects.
So hard to say anything because it depends on who you ask and what you want to do.
For character animation actually Maya should be your best choice probably .
But that is not my area of interest.
For modeling Modo or Lightwave-especially with some plugins-aren't much so different.
But with LWcad Lightwave looks much better.
But as a more general all in one software Lightwave is still probably a little better then Modo.
Modo does have one interface.Lightwave is still 2 interfaces.
One for modeling the other for animating etc.
This could-should be changing in the near future.
If you think about using your software for work especially in the movie industry Maya
would be the first choice then Modo then Lightwave or others maybe.
Lightwave is more used in the TV industry so much i know.

Would be nice to hear what others think too of course.

Modo seems to be on target to have solid animation and solid particles. It might be a couple of more versions, though, but many advancements have been made. Many are hoping for intricate inclusion of Nuke and / or Mari functonality, too.

And, there's an announcement tonight from The Foundry about something revolutionary. It will be interesting to hear it and it has nothing to do with Modo, as I understand it.

I have been talking with the MODO people. I think it may be the way for me to go. My only doubts are related to if I can upgrade to 801 for free or not. IF I can, then I will go for it. If not I will... Be back here ranting about software companies, probably ;D Im waiting for a response on the update part now.

But on a note for my OP. I found a video that is of planets and space stuff that should inspire all us TG peeps. IT is good enough (i think) for its own thread, have a look for it.

LWCAD is COOL.   ;D

Quote from: rcallicotte on April 08, 2014, 06:54:42 PM
LWCAD is COOL.   ;D

Yep :)

I thought a little more about Modo and Lightwave Michael.
For hard modeling like spaceships,buildings etc. i would easily say Lightwave.
I don't know Modo much to say more but Character modeling like in Zbrush etc. is harder in Lightwave
and you should probably look to Zbrush and-or 3DCoat for this (maybe even if you buy Modo) .
The old architecture of Lightwave makes using models made with high poly counts harder to use.
This will probably dealt with in the next or another version but for now that is one negative aspect that you should be aware.
Especially as i know that you are heavy handed in objects and images in general :)
I think you are going to go to the Modo route anyway from what i see from your posts.
But i wanted to say this to be more objective.

QuoteI think you are going to go to the Modo route anyway from what i see from your posts.

Understandable, but no. I have not decided. Actually, I don't feel any more certain than I did a year ago. Its just I have had Maya to occupy my time.

Really I think this will come down to dollars.

MODO=$1495 + Meshfusion=$395 =1890 + some other plugins +500 for full updates= not cheap.

What dose lightwave cost with cad + whatever else you would recommend? IF they are close I am still where I am now. But if there is a big gap, then I will have a much better idea of what I can and should do.

???

I would wait for sales, if I was you. Newtek just had a really good one and who knows what LW 12 will be like.

Modo 801 might not be out for awhile, but the word is it might be a while.

Have you checked the Quixel Freelancers Suite? It looks sweet.   :P  This deal alongside the Allegorithmic Freelancer deal together could do just about everything you want to do in texturing.

zBrush and 3D Coat might be useful, depending on what you want to do. Everything really depends on your goals.

http://www.wtools3d.com/ - The programmer is very active.

https://www.lightwave3d.com/buy-lightwave/
http://www.wtools3d.com/product.php  -    http://www.sharbor.com/vendors/WTO.html

995 $ + 299 $ =  1294 $ -lightwave and LWCad-  Lightwave update is $495 . All these prices are at low for now.
There are some very nice free plugin like the Treemaker from Denis Pontonnier etc.
And other good plugins but they depend on what you want and how much you are willing go spend Michael.
https://www.lightwave3d.com/assets/plugins/ and many more.
https://www.lightwave3d.com/third_party/

I am still thinking about to buy or not to buy the "Octane GPU Renderer" (Nvidia only) , "Kray" and "Turbulence FD" for example.
Not altogether of course :)

And if you have time and want to know much more this thread is like just for you Michael.
Look at the  Subject   "Professional Maya user - why Lightwave and not Modo?"    here :
http://forums.newtek.com/showthread.php?134352-Professional-Maya-user-why-Lightwave-and-not-Modo
19 pages. But i think you will like it.
And the same guy in the Modo forum :)
http://community.thefoundry.co.uk/discussion/topic.aspx?f=32&t=74429&page=0
4 pages.

Yes, TurbulenceFD is just plain cool in LW, though the TFD developer did say he will someday make it for Modo. Octane Render for Lightwave looks pretty cool and useful. The developer, Juan J. Gonzalez, is one of the best Octane developers (Arnold and LW both). Juan is on top of the latest in everything Octane and has made the LW implementation top notch.  Octane 2.0 is (will be) brilliant (not out yet) and would be a really good renderer to have, I think.

Quote from: Kadri on April 09, 2014, 10:25:50 AM
I am still thinking about to buy or not to buy the "Octane GPU Renderer" (Nvidia only) , "Kray" and "Turbulence FD" for example.
Not altogether of course :)

Hi

I got an e-mail from the MODO people. 801 will be out real soon. They are having a preview thing this month. At the very least I think I should wait for that.

And Thanks Kadri. I read through that long LW thread. But lets see what 801 will do. Maybe it will help.

Hey...so you can see MeshFusion in action (can't really use it, but you can watch) -

http://www.braid.com/fusion/help/lab/labp0/index.html

He built this on the side as a side setup for MeshFusion as if MF wasn't enough fun already. You should know some are predicting it could be possible that 801 might break MF for at least the time just before SP1 for 801...but, who knows?

You beat me to the punch line. I got the same email. But now I am wondering if The Foundry will do to Modo what Autodesk did to Maya. I don't think that question can be answered by seeing 801. I have 401 and never upgraded because I have never learned how to do a whole work flow in Modo. Perhaps it is because LW's interface works differently. I just use its special tools to supplement what it does better than LW. I know you don't want to hear this but I would recommend getting both. Lightwave has excellent primitive modeling functionality that I use all of the time. For more advanced modeling stuff like painting and better UV map editing then Modo is an excellent complement. I have read that in later versions of Modo you can spray on weight maps which I would love to be able to do. But for animation, I have the impression that Modo has a long way to go before it approaches LW in that department. I am sure a lot has probably happened since 401 so the LUX group will certainly surprise me. My next major purchase will be NevronMotion.

They need to keep the price reasonably for Modo. One benefit is that it's cheaper than the competition.

I'm biased because Modo works on Linux and I love that. What I found was that there is a learning curve (like any app) but Modo doesn't follow all the conventions so you'll have spend a bit of time with it but I think you get a flow going from modelling to rendering that feels really fast. One thing I got into was the high dynamic range lighting. Like Terragen you can make scenes haves natural light i.e. they blow out as they would on a camera but this is always great for realistic outdoor scenes and postworking it. You can go far with Modo for landscapes. I was into this for a bit, doing Terragen like methods. These clouds are Modo. It's a huge box containing 3D clouds but pretty similar to how Terragen renders them:

(https://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/862x427q90/844/ihbl.jpg)

I had some stuff that was really going somewhere but then I realised I was going to have to pioneer how to do all this in Modo and it was going to be colossally time consuming so I stopped. I think it's the same with a lot in Modo including animation. You'll be pioneering how to do it in Modo but in other apps, there is a huge backlog of tutorials etc.

Badger, in my opinion there is only one way to find the apps you want to use. You'll have to go through some of them and try. This means learning on a basic level maybe as many as three or four different apps. You don't have to master them. You'll find some show stoppers then you can discount certain ones but never just have one app mastered. Have another one to use. You'll find some complement each other. None do everything. I've just been through this with audio sequencing. It's a nightmare but not much you can do. It also helps if you have a definite purpose because then it's easier to eliminate apps that won't do what you want. Another important point is that things learnt in an app that you ditch are never wasted, they mostly translate in one way or another to a different app and you can possibly influence new features  in apps that aren't doing what you want.

Coming to this thread rather late but just 2 things I'd like to add...

1. Meshfusion rocks. (already said I know) - but it is a paid for plug in so bear that in mind.
2. The next version 801 is being showcased tonight (7PM in the states - 3AM in the UK) - so it will be released very shortly - even tomorrow knowing the team there - but this is probably the first main release under The Foundry banner - so who knows.

I'm just a hobbyist, but I have used Modo since the beginning (v101) - and it has grown in leaps and bounds - and the Luxology team (aka The Foundry now) and the support forums are great.

These are the apps in order of preference that I want to use. Time to do it is another factor and this is environment landscape orientated since that's my preference.

1 Modo
2 3D Coat
3 Wings 3D
4 Blender
5 Terragen

Obviously Modo is the main environment and the others back that up. Currently I can't use all this and Terragen has got the chop for the moment. If people are wondering why I've chosen Modo as top it's because it's a great app for outdoor type environments due to the huge extra capability to do other things as well as design the environment. There are obviously periphery apps for designing terrain, making trees etc but I'm not moving outside of these apps. I'm got a ton of music on the go at the moment and that's a whole other angle of software nightmares to deal with. I can't do all this.

Below is another Modo test render I did last year. I have to attach this here although it's not a Terragen render. Imageshack is what I was using before but now they make you pay.

I'm not posting anything along this line in the Modo forums unless I go back to make images so awesome that I don't need to take flak from the Modo no can do answers. It can and this image just scratches the surface. I improved the cloud glow after this. I personally believe Modo is an awesome app for landscape stuff. Does this mean Modo can do everything Terragen can do? No. Terragen excels at huge distance environments, high altitude cloud shots, planets etc. Terragen would be the go to for that.

The best partner for Terragen is Modo in my opinion but I can't do both if any. It's too time consuming.

The Foundry stuff with Terragen on Linux would be the ideal. That would be everything you need on a great OS.

3D software all uses similar ways to render environments. It's just that Terragen is initially much quicker to set up terrains and skies.

I just got an email that says Modo 801 is now for sale.

The nodal shading looks like an awesome improvement. The shader tree was OK but I found things I couldn't do so easily with that. The nodal shading will make so much more possible.

"shatter command " - this looks cool.

Upgrade price looks OK. No huge hikes.

If Modo is your main terrain application, how are you using erosion features if any? Is there a good way of faking it in Modo, however I have doubts about that. I see all of the time erosion not being used and more often then not, the terrain looks unrealistic, lacks age so it all looks static/dead. I was using the Terragen Alpine Shader often but still, it is not enough for true erosive features.

I haven't used erosion in Terragen either. Mostly I created full procedural terrains that cover the planet rather than heightfields. Of course Modo doesn't have erosion. There is a feature lacking in Modo. You can't build up procedural textures and have them recalculate to get overhangs. The picture I posted from Modo before is pure procedural. There is no mesh as such at all except as a flat holder for the material so there are no overhangs. To get overhangs you need to transform the procedural texture to a mesh. There are ways to instance the mesh though so you can have lots of them into the distance. You can also use this to get millions of rocks etc. You can just rotate them etc to create variety. Modo's procedurals are excellent though for actually creating the initial terrain forms. Better than Terragen's. Terragen is lacking a number of features. The main one is a curve graph. Modo has an insanely powerful curve graph so it's easy to shape the profile of the terrain.

Bringing terrains into Modo from other apps would be a useful method as well. I think there is huge scope for creating terrains in apps like 3D Coat or ZBrush. Bringing HDR skies from Terragen would be useful as well.

I wouldn't say Modo is my main terrain application. I've just done some experiments. I'm really doing very little of this due to the time consuming nature of it whether Modo or Terragen.

Hey Efflux, long time bro!

Been looking at the videos showing the new stuff in MODO. Have some more to look at this weekend. So far I think the soft has all that I do need, and will get everything I will need by the time I need it. But I need to check out a few more things before I decide.

@ Kadri, well it looks like I am in fact now really leaning to MODO over LW. After all the reading and looking and watching, I like what I saw of LW a lot. I think its nice soft.
But after all the tech stuff it comes down to a more basic psychological thing. I personally just feel better about MODO. *I* am just finding it to be more aprocable, and "feel" less overwhelmed at the prospect of learning it. It looks like it suits my personality a little better... The layout and the handling.
MODO is definitely VERY interested in me being happy as I work (not that LW is not also interested). But MODO just feels better... As stupid as all that may sound, after I did the point by point comparison, it just comes down to a tactile preference, even esthetic preference, which in software is much more tangible than imagery, I think.

BUT! I can't afford to buy anything for a few weeks, so I will probably change my mind 60-70 times by then. >:( :'( >:(  ;D So still listening to what you guys have to say if you want to say anything more!  :)

Cheers all.

I have nothing more to say Michael :)

It would be only funny if anything new about the
next version of Lightwave happened to come out in that time frame :D

Quotenext version of Lightwave happened to come out in that time frame :D

BAAAAA! Don't say that! I need to make some kind of choice and that will put me back to square one. Because of course, major improvements of some kind or another would rightly make me put "preference feelings" aside, and do the never ending point by point comparisons again  :o

Ok, that would be a little funny.

:)

You are going to drive him crazy Kadri.  ;)

Quote from: yossam on April 26, 2014, 08:12:54 PM
You are going to drive him crazy Kadri.  ;)

I really want to hear news about the next Lightwave version
for myself and a little...ahem...because of this of course  ;)

This is interesting even with no context. Makes me curious about the different approaches to renderers and how it could jump like this.
[attach=1]

I see a few things.  Specular highlights aren't as intense in 801.  Shading on the building stonework seems flatter and the details on the granite wall don't seem as intense (and I think the renderer in 701 attempts reflect the the shading on the sidewalk a tiny bit, but I don't see the same thing in 801).  Only thing that baffles me is that the glass in 801 seems to be a bit more transparent than the 701 version, which I 'thought' would have added to the render time. But maybe not.

Since The Foundry/Luxology was offering me an upgrade for $100 off (ends Friday) I bit the bullet and upgraded Modo from 401 to 801. "The Badger" badgered me into it with this thread (just joking).  :)  Now I'm current on all fronts (TG, LW & Modo) I just have to get the time to figure out what I just bought. Hopefully it's not "the farm".

let us know when you get to it.