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General => Terragen Animation => Topic started by: Kadri on September 17, 2014, 02:21:52 PM

Title: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on September 17, 2014, 02:21:52 PM
Since 1.5 months i am working on a new animation.
It begun as a very basic test in that the camera was making a pan around those monuments in this scene:

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,16725.msg163194.html#msg163194

When i was waiting for the renders i begun to think if i can make this or that too and suddenly it got out of control.
Now it looks more like a short (under 1 minute) film.

I am still rendering and working on it.
But this time i am very sure that i will finish it because this last 1.5 months with all the rendering and
despite this or that problem it was the most fun i had in a long time.
And i still have fun working on it.

It is made with Terragen and Lightwave.

It will not a 100 % finished animation because of some flickering etc. but more like a very(!)polished test.
Anyway you will see it for yourself when it is ready.
It is roughly 70-80 % finished already.

For now some stills :

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: archonforest on September 17, 2014, 02:37:06 PM
I like the stills already. Cant wait to see the anim :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: yossam on September 17, 2014, 03:39:32 PM
Agreed.......... :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 17, 2014, 06:23:36 PM

I made a small teaser guys. Should be ready in under one hour in Vimeo.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 17, 2014, 06:54:34 PM

Here is it:

https://vimeo.com/106416635
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on September 17, 2014, 07:16:32 PM
That was good! 8)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: archonforest on September 17, 2014, 07:26:03 PM
Awesome! Morepls :D :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: yossam on September 17, 2014, 09:01:44 PM
Great................want more.  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 17, 2014, 09:13:41 PM

Thanks guys. Working on it :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 18, 2014, 01:29:41 AM
Ooo, looks promising! I love that you're animating the object and using TG features for effects. I think the large object falls too quickly for its apparent size (judging by the trees), and it loses some of that sense of impressive scale because of that, but otherwise it's great. Also if you're doing motion blur in TG, I suggest trying the 2D blur if you're not already using it. Quality is quite good, especially in a situation like this, and it's a lot faster. If you want any other render setting suggestions let me know. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 18, 2014, 05:00:05 AM

Thanks Oshyan.
Regarding the speed of the fall ,you are not the first who said it. It might be a little too fast.
Still not sure if i should change it because i like the way it is now :)

2D motion blur is a little harder-different when i try to make crop renders. It blurs the edges of the crop region too Oshyan.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 18, 2014, 05:10:19 AM
True, but just don't use motion blur on crops I guess, eh? Harder to get the sense of the 2D blur perhaps. If you have Deep + Animation you can output render layers and put out motion vectors and depth, and then you can use the Image File Processor node to do the blur *after* rendering, and adjust the strength if desired...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 18, 2014, 12:00:51 PM

Good to know Oshyan i didn't know that you can do that :)


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 18, 2014, 06:31:19 PM
Yes, the Image File Processor is a little-known node but rather cool. It also allows you to do the built-in post processing stuff (highlight clip, contrast, gamma) as a post effect if you have output an EXR file. This lets you experiment more with those settings, which is nice.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 18, 2014, 06:50:20 PM

Nice.
One very basic looking feature i really liked was the animated crop option.
I didn't cared much about it until this project.
When 1 frame takes over 1 hour and you see here or there too much flickering and when you made errors etc. it is a real time saver.
I made many animated crop renders and comped them over the originals.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 22, 2014, 08:02:23 PM

Small update with a still image.
Still working on it.
With 2 scenes fully finished it is over 33 seconds now.
I think it will be longer then 1 minute. Maybe more like 2 even.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 22, 2014, 09:42:27 PM

Now i have a problem.
Those craters don't move-rotate with the Planet .
"Translate textures with planet" and "Rotate textures with planet" is checked.
Have anyone tried this before?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 23, 2014, 12:57:18 AM
How did you create them?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 23, 2014, 04:59:27 AM

Not sure but i think i created them in the planet node by right clicking and choosing the Crater node.
Does it matter for the outcome Oshyan?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 23, 2014, 05:26:58 AM
Yes, it does. Crater nodes are like the Simple Shape Shader. See how they both have an explicit Position or Center coordinate set? These are not moved with the planet regardless because they have an explicit position. You need to manually Translate them to get them to move. You can use a Transform Input shader for this.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on September 23, 2014, 07:20:34 AM
But it would be intriguing; an animation of moving craters  :o
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 23, 2014, 07:36:43 AM
But it would be intriguing; an animation of moving craters  :o

Yes but when you render for 1 hour and then see them growing ,
moving and disappearing after 1-2 hours of work it feels more like "what the...heck" :D

Thanks Oshyan. I will see if it works for the scene. If not i will move the camera and comp it later.
Maybe moving the camera is even better because i will get more motion blur.
Object motion blur would be very nice in the future really.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Matt on September 24, 2014, 03:03:45 AM
Yes, it does. Crater nodes are like the Simple Shape Shader. See how they both have an explicit Position or Center coordinate set? These are not moved with the planet regardless because they have an explicit position. You need to manually Translate them to get them to move. You can use a Transform Input shader for this.

- Oshyan

This interpretation isn't quite correct.

Any shader that can be affected by a transform shader is affected by the "rotate textures with planet" and "translate textures with planet" attributes. In fact, internally these options are implemented using a Transform Merge Shader.

A Crater Shader should be affected by these things. It does when I try it in a default scene.

Matt
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Matt on September 24, 2014, 03:08:58 AM
Is the shader after the Compute Terrain node? Shaders after the Compute Terrain node aren't affected by those translate/rotate options on the planet, because Compute Terrain sets its own texture coordinates for all nodes that come afterwards. A similar problem occurs if you use a Warp Shader or Transform Shader after the Compute Terrain node.

Matt
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 24, 2014, 02:01:48 PM

It is good that you posted too Matt because it was more confusing then i wrote actually.
I just don't wanted to go further because i am already using only the camera for the move and will later comp the scene.

The confusing part wasn't too much clear to me because of the many craters i used (that picture is from a earlier state).

I ripped the scene to the basic parts and tried it with a "Compute Terrain" and a "Crater node" only.

*When the "Crater node" is after the "Compute Terrain" you can easily click on the 3D preview window and place the crater.
- But with that configuration the crater don't move with the planet unfortunately.

*When you use the "Compute Terrain" after the "Crater node" i don't know if it works.
  Unfortunately with this configuration you can not place the "Crater node"'s by clicking on the preview window.
  At least i could not see them. Maybe thinking along the way you wrote about the "Compute Terrain" node they
  are placed somewhere else in the scene?

I tried with the check boxes OFF in the planet node and the "Compute Terrain" before and after the crater node , but that didn't worked too of course.
I tried some other few combinations with Transform input and merge shader with different settings here and there but all were problematic.

Matt what would be the best way to use a crater node to have it move with
the planet and to place it in the easiest way on the planet at the same time?
Or is the easiest way for now to use a image based approach for craters if you want a moving planet ?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on September 24, 2014, 05:22:10 PM
What if you use a crater made with a simple shape combi?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 24, 2014, 09:56:08 PM
I was just going to test it Ulco but i had another funny problem.
I tried to right click and copy paste the coordinates  but it didn't worked.
"Paste coordinates" was greyed out.
It is the first time i saw this.
I tried this and that but no difference.
I thought that is was maybe a problem unrelated to Terragen and the first thing to try was to close the
TightViewer  window (i use it to control the other computers in our home network for rendering).
Edit: http://www.tightvnc.com/download.php  very nice , easy to setup and to use program.
Then copy and paste worked ones again.
Not sure if it is always a problem because i use it for a long time.
Anyway...

Had no time to test it after that Ulco.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 24, 2014, 11:31:29 PM

Just tested your suggestion Ulco and it looks like it
works as it should be with a "Simple shape shader".
Just putting a "Simple shape shader" after the "Crater node" was enough and
it worked with the "Compute terrain" before and after that nodes too.

Thanks :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on September 25, 2014, 07:14:15 AM
 :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 27, 2014, 03:29:32 AM

Today i had another problem.
After i rendered the small moon animation there were problematic parts in nearly 100 frames.
They are in different parts of the image mostly.
I tried to manually correct them.
It was tolerable in some places but in the very obvious parts i had to give up.


[attachimg=1]


I tried many different options for a full day. But could not find a real solution at first.
It is probably related to high displacement but i didn't wanted to change the look much.

In the end i found the solution kinda in a brute force approach in that
i used the "360 degree detail (highest)" (was too afraid to loose time ones again and haven't tried "optimal")
option in the "Ray detail region" setting in the render node.

Now i am rendering 200 frames ones again.It looks OK so far.

So if you see something like that and have trouble maybe it helps guys.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 05, 2014, 01:32:26 AM

This scene in the third part of the animation was hard.
I changed it 3 times after nearly all of them were finished rendering.
It took nearly 3 weeks for only 6-12 seconds...

I changed for this part to Lightwave for more control of the scene
with the lights (excluding objects from the lights for example) and for some special effects with
hypervoxels and bullet dynamics that aren't shown in this still image from the animation that is still rendering.

There is still Terragen in it because i exported the small moon and the other lower part as objects from Terragen to use in Lightwave.

If this scene renders without problem there are only 2 parts left to finish.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on October 05, 2014, 07:04:07 AM
You're making me terribly curious...
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 05, 2014, 12:35:02 PM
:)
The hard part wasn't only because the scene was -only-hard to do Ulco.
I think we talked about this earlier too but sometimes a scene that you think will be
very easy to do doesn't come together as you wish it should.
Like the angle of the camera or the ground that doesn't want to look like you want it to be etc.
Then there are scenes you think will take 1-2 weeks but are finished in 1-2 days.
There is another part after this one for example that i thought would be very hard to do but i really finished it in 2 days.


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Nacer Eddine on October 06, 2014, 01:49:08 PM
good continuation kadri
but why you don't use 3dmax its easy to do that ?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 03:27:25 AM

Thanks Nacer.
I don't like Max and as i said i use Lightwave to do some of the scenes.
Not sure how to say it Nacer but making an animation is easy.
What is hard is to make is a good animation.
That was my problem.
It isn't anything related to Max, Lightwave or Terragen.
It is about me basically.
I didn't like the outcome of my first tries.
Actually the very first-in Lightwave- was to hard to handle.
It took hours to calculate for the simulation of the bullet dynamics.
I am not willing to work more then needed for this animation and want it fast to finish but at the same time over a certain quality.
Anyway...

I don't like the last render that is finished too actually.
The reason to use Lightwave isn't much obvious in the finished animation.
A good compositor could have made work the first and this last one much better.
But i have to let it go.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 02:15:05 PM

I wasn't going to post this but whatever...

This is the scene i abandoned.

https://vimeo.com/108229063

It wasn't finished. I had an explosion ready to comp on the far other side too for example.
The moon and the landscape is Terragen here.The smoke Lightwave.
These 3 parts were rendered separately.
The moon that flybys is a scene in that the moon was still and the camera moved.

I like the feel of the camera move but not enough to use it.

I am not so keen on the camera move and the look of the landscape in the
new version (last image above) but the scene works a little better then this one.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: yossam on October 07, 2014, 02:54:29 PM
Cool................... :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 05:36:18 PM
Thanks :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 05:59:01 PM

Rendered a little part (crash-explosion) ones more with some changes and this time it is kinda acceptable.
Moving on to the last 2 parts of the animation.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on October 07, 2014, 06:07:31 PM
I think that actually looks quite cool. Good enough for inclusion IMHO.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 06:15:05 PM

I have send a PM to you Oshyan.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 11:39:59 PM

After talking to Oshyan about this scene he convinced me to use
the one i posted here and the new one together in the finished animation by editing them as needed.
Always good to hear fresh and reasonable views ;)
So it might not be abandoned at all in the end.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on October 07, 2014, 11:46:52 PM
Glad to hear that Kadri. I think it's a nice chance to do some film-style editing and get some more sophisticated intercutting in there of different shots. Quite honestly the lack of multiple camera angles, and the tendency by many (myself included!) to do just a long flythrough of a scene is one of the things that I think detracts from many Terragen animations. They're not "cinematic" sometimes, partly for that reason I think, and it should be fairly easily remedied. In your case it might also end up being a nice way to not waste footage you've already created. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 07, 2014, 11:56:58 PM
... Quite honestly the lack of multiple camera angles, and the tendency by many (myself included!)
to do just a long flythrough of a scene is one of the things that I think detracts from many Terragen animations...

That urge is always hard to resist and mostly cut short only by render times :)

In your case it might also end up being a nice way to not waste footage you've already created...

Yep feels great :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on October 08, 2014, 04:54:46 AM
I really like the scene, and it's good that you continue with it. Regarding the flyby's; I can imagine with the long time it takes for an animation to render one wants movement, and progress, but a quiet turn, or some shots fading into eachother may be more interesting indeed.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on October 08, 2014, 06:10:44 AM
Strongly agree with Kadri's conclusion and Oshyan's advice! Have ranted about this before. In addition to Oshyan's reasons, rendering cuts is also more gratifying I feel... You get finished sequences sooner  :)

Really looking forward to a nice little short Kadri. "in the blink of an eye" (a short book) has some really great thinking and tricks for editing. Rather a fun read if you like.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: archonforest on October 08, 2014, 07:48:21 AM
Yes pls continue Kadri :D I like it alot.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 08, 2014, 09:39:49 AM

Thanks guys.
There are some little shots i haven't shown yet and i am eager to share.
So working full time to finish it as fast as i can :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 08, 2014, 03:52:37 PM
...
Really looking forward to a nice little short Kadri.
"in the blink of an eye" (a short book) has some really great thinking and tricks for editing. Rather a fun read if you like.

Thanks Michael i will have a look at that book.
The last ones i had read from the beginning to the end were from Sergei Eisenstein...really :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on October 11, 2014, 07:11:04 PM
Sergei Eisenstein would be one of my heroes if I believed in heroes.

He started out as part of the problem, but in the end he stood up to Stalin. What I love about him is that he was so good and so clever that Stalin didn't get it.  ;D Art can be very powerful even if only in hindsight. I am talking about "Ivan the terrible", Eisenstein's final work. He made it by commission of Stalin him self.

But rather than making the film the boss wanted, Eisenstein used it to condemn everything Stalin was doing. But it was so exstravagent and complex Stalin apparently could not see past the aesthetics of it. Just change the name to "Joseph the terrible" in your mind when you see the fils and its pretty clear.

There was to be three films. Two were made. Eisenstein died of ( I think it was) a heart attack before making the third part. The historians say there was no foul play. But who knows.

Kadri, if you have a bunch of good sequences that you made but not really intended to go with one another, that could be a great opportunity to play! I am completely biased on this, but editing is the best, most creative part of moving pictures IMO. Everything else is just a way to make parts to arrange  ;D And if you use montage theory like Eisenstein, oh man, you can do so much.

I am sure you have your own ideas of course, I just like the subject.  :)

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 11, 2014, 08:15:29 PM

He is a very interesting and important man for sure :)
When i first saw Battleship Potemkin in a theater (with 10 people or less) i was amazed that he made it in 1925.

I am just playing how it goes along in this one. No big ideas at all.
As i wrote here before this is just a test
for many aspects i have to use for my real animation next year i hope.
I am trying many things i haven't done at all (in the way i use them here at least).
And not only in Terragen.In Lightwave too like hypervoxels, bullet dynamics and some landscaping etc.

The only real thing i am trying to archive and i would be sorry if it isn't in the finished animation
is a kind of sense of the time passing by with a little grant sadness that still has hope in it.
Some technical aspects aren't so important for me if i can give that feeling when you watch it.

But i am still surprised how that little camera pan got out of control and i am writing this here at all ;)
 
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on October 11, 2014, 08:50:06 PM
Quote
i was amazed that he made it in 1925.
I know, that gets me too! It really feels like everything has already been done. And all we can do is pick from the past and try to master the ideas of the people who came before us. Not as romantic as the idea of discovering something new, but mastery of anything is no small task. My life is the failure to master anything. But Ill keep trying. I'm more optimistic for others though ;D


Everyone knows Im a cheerleader if nothing else. Don't mind my enthusiasm Kadri. Tests or not, no one would be here if it were not interesting just as a starting place. which it is.

Now or a year from now... For me, maybe 10 year. So Ill root for you and the others in the meantime
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 11, 2014, 08:56:40 PM
...
My life is the failure to master anything. But Ill keep trying. I'm more optimistic for others though ;D
...

You don't show much but from what i have seen
it looks like there is very much optimism for what you will do too as i have said before Michael :)

And by the way don't forget that i am trying to do such an animation for years...more years then you think probably ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 11, 2014, 09:40:28 PM

As i probably have no new things to show until the finished animation i will post an old one from 1997.

https://vimeo.com/108673653

Testing never ended as you see Michael.
So no more tests from now on and directly animations ...good or bad or i will get have nothing done at all :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 18, 2014, 05:02:44 PM

A still from the fourth part of the animation.

The only part that is Terragen is the basic landscape object that i exported.
Everything else is Lightwave.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on October 19, 2014, 09:44:22 PM
Looking good, but I'm curious why you decided to do this in LW. Maybe there's something in the animated version that requires it? As it is the scene seems quite do-able with TG, and I see a bit of fuzziness in the terrain that I imagine is due to the export process and finite resolution of exported data vs. original procedurals in TG. I'm sure the result will still be great, but of course you're aware of the problems you ended up with on the moon that you exported as it ends up looking overly smooth and CG in LW.

I don't mean to be a downer, I think this whole project is fantastic, just a little constructive feedback. Looking forward to seeing it all come together. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 20, 2014, 07:41:59 AM

Actually all you wrote is is the same as i think about this scene Oshyan.
If i took more time i could make the scene-the landscape especially-better.
But it serves just above the threshold i need it for the time i am willing to give it.

As you guessed rightly i want to make some things with hypervoxels in Lightwave with this scene.
Not sure how it will look actually because most of the things i try are very new things for me.
At least in this scale.

I could use Terragen clouds too actually as i tried it with the first scene in Terragen as the building collapsed.
But this time i wanted to see how it will end in Lightwave.
So i am testing Lightwave too in this project.
And in some ways i will have more control in this scene.

I am using hypervoxels in Lightwave for some effects but i will probably
buy a plugin like TurbulenceFD (https://www.jawset.com/) later as hypervoxels are very hard and old to get the look you want.

Of course if we could use the clouds in the same way in Terragen then many effects could be made directly in Terragen.

So no problem at all with criticism. I always love it.
It is kind of an eye opener especially if you didn't see it at all it in that way.
Always better then "Looks nice" that i am most of the times guilty too :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 07, 2014, 12:08:20 PM
I had a animation in that the clouds warped over time.
The beginning was from frame 101 to 200 for the warp.
Unfortunately at frame 101 the warping is so sudden that it looks like more of a jump.
There are no ways to control the TCB settings so far i know.
I think this is one of the most important things to add to the animation part of Terragen.
2 days lost in rendering and i have to try to smooth that 2 frame out. Hope it works.

Edit:I will try to use manual numbers that go from zero to the number of the warp that is seen in the frame 101.
       2-3 frames  put in this way between 100 and 101 should work i think.

It looks like that for now in some places it is better to begin with the animation from the beginning
then at the middle and try to control it with small key values until the place you want it go higher.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 16, 2014, 03:25:09 AM

Had to cheat in a basic way for the problem mentioned above. The Big rock covers the planet at the problematic frames.
This scene could use a little more different rocks but in the animation it is harder to spot.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on November 16, 2014, 07:20:45 PM
Looks pretty cool! I like the debris ring. I don't see right off what you are worried about? The rock in the center there looks good.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 16, 2014, 07:47:38 PM
Thanks Michael.
I worked more for the big rock. That is OK i think too.
The others are all the same rock actually. So only 1 rock for all the debris other then the big one.
Well there is a different smaller one too but that is hard to be seen in the scene :)
That smaller one worked better in another try but here the general look is better so i don't bother much.

I learned so much in this animation project it is kında funny.
Knowing-reading is one thing but trying to make is the best teaching method as i saw in this project.
In the scene above for example i should have used different passes-layers (all the time actually).
I wanted to control the look of the planet and the rocks separately after the render finished.
But i didn't rendered that way. So i had to compromise.
The rocks should be more bright from the sunlight for example.
But i think in the finished animation it will be less obvious at least for the non vfx viewers.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Hannes on November 17, 2014, 04:35:29 AM
Great, Kadri! Can't wait to see the final result.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 17, 2014, 05:17:36 AM

Thanks Hannes.

Other then Terragen, Lightwave and Sony Vegas i had to-wanted to learn Hitfilm.
Rendering now a scene that has more then 30 layers with Hitfilm.
One more first because of this project.

If the free Fusion came out 1 months ago i would have used it probably.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 17, 2014, 10:51:11 AM

The Hitfilm test part turned out nearly as i had in my mind.

Ground exported from Terragen and rendered in Lightwave. I rendered the building too as another pass in Lightwave.
All the other parts are made in Hitfilm. I could still play with this but i am quite pleased how it came out.


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 18, 2014, 10:30:30 PM

I wanted to test Youtube. You can watch that short scene here.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on November 18, 2014, 11:00:43 PM
Wow, nice!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 18, 2014, 11:18:25 PM

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on November 19, 2014, 07:35:24 AM
Awesome!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Hannes on November 19, 2014, 07:51:36 AM
Looks really great, Kadri!!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 19, 2014, 01:28:31 PM

Thanks guys :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: j meyer on November 19, 2014, 02:53:55 PM
More than promising!
Eager to see the final.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 19, 2014, 05:55:31 PM

Thanks :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: yossam on November 20, 2014, 12:31:16 AM
Impressive................waiting on final.  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 20, 2014, 12:40:53 AM
Thanks ;D
With the things i am still adding to the final part it could take a while.
Looks like the end goes farther away so much i finish some parts.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on November 20, 2014, 01:04:21 AM
Oh man  :o I did not expect this from the wips and test animations. Bad Ass Kadri!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 20, 2014, 01:32:10 AM
LOL! Thanks Michael.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: PabloMack on December 07, 2014, 03:05:04 PM
Hitfilm 3 was just released.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 07, 2014, 04:50:54 PM

Yes bought it already. I am waiting for the first update.
Point releases are a little too buggy sometimes.
Do you use it Pablo?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: PabloMack on December 07, 2014, 06:21:22 PM
Do you use it Pablo?

I have Hitfilm 2 Ultimate. To get my feet wet and get familiar with it I tried to use it for editing together a video presentation. It got to where it wasn't able to handle the size of my project (?) which was then getting to be about 23 minutes long. It kept crashing (1920 X 1080). My time was running out and I got desperate so I went back to SpeedEDIT which saved me. I whipped the presentation together in about a day or so. I decided not to think of Hitfilm as a general NLE but instead as a visual effects package. I still want to learn how to use it. I searched for "Hitfilm 2" in this forum and I brought up this thread. Do you have a back story for the animation you are/were doing that started this thread?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 07, 2014, 06:57:07 PM
I got Hitfilm 2 Ultimate together with Sony Vegas Pro 12.
The NLE side isn't as good for now. But if you are into the way it works it is nice for VFX work as you said.
It feels like a newborn software that will be much stronger shortly but that does have some bugs and shortcomings.
With Fusion free i am curious what will happen. But they are so different that they (Hitfilm) won't have a problem probably with this.

I made up a very basic story for the animation. No characters. Will see how it will look. I am on the last part with 2-3 scenes left.
One scene takes sometimes more then one week.And then there will be the editing and music part.
Maybe i will make the webpage i bought since some years at last the first time with this too.
So it looks still far away.But i am getting there slowly :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 09, 2014, 03:00:55 AM

In the last part of the animation i am going to use some old project files like this one.
It isn't much different from the original but there is a difference that isn't shown here yet.

I am not sure what i will use at the right side.
Maybe small city like lights on the big planet or flying very small creatures or a space ship.
I am still undecided.

This is the raw unprocessed full Terragen image.
Render time is nearly 3 hours per frame. There will be 170 frames probably.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 09, 2014, 10:06:48 AM

This is one of the old projects too. A little different then the original.
Not so fond of it but with a little postwork and comp it should work hopefully.

If you remember this except the ground everything is made from clouds.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 09, 2014, 10:13:51 AM

I mapped one frame of the moon on a plane object file to get faster render time.
There was too much flickering too.
It got maybe nearly half an hour faster and steady lights without flickering this way.
End result is around 1 hour render time per frame.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on December 09, 2014, 09:21:09 PM
I think both these last two are really cool looking. Especially the one where you've made some kind of crazy ship out of clouds. :D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 09, 2014, 10:48:03 PM

Thanks Oshyan :)


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on December 10, 2014, 05:25:56 AM
really cool. Looking forward to this! Good to have some more projects to anticipate. Lots of fun to see and try to figure out. Getting really curious how this is going to come together.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on December 10, 2014, 12:20:09 PM
... Getting really curious how this is going to come together.

Me too :) Thanks Michael.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on January 25, 2015, 06:27:40 PM

A little update:

Made a first rough cut of the animation.
1-2 scenes are still not finished and i have to polish some scenes a little more.
The runtime is 4 minutes now. The last scene is the longest.
With this and that it might be a little under 5 minutes in the end.

As i have thrown the scenes together as i made this , there are scenes i wish i had made different or should add some more etc. 
It looks a little rough to me but i have lost objectivity since some time already.
Before final cut i will have to show it to others.

Music and sound effects are another factor that i will have to deal with very soon.

But it is a real experience in that i saw that making a short video isn't so easy at all as it sometimes looks.

Some scenes do look much nicer on an 65" tv by the way ;)

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on January 25, 2015, 08:32:55 PM
Quote
Some scenes do look much nicer on an 65" tv by the way
:P
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on January 26, 2015, 05:13:40 AM
Looking forward to it!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on May 28, 2015, 06:51:08 PM
Alive?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 28, 2015, 07:01:28 PM

Yes :)

I took a break for 2-3 months, after working a very long time on it.
But i have begun to work again and i am on the last scene now.
There are still some small changes like adding small moving objects on some scenes but they are not hard to do.
Then adding sound and music etc. So it might take 1 month at least and maybe more to finish Michael.

How is your project going on?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 28, 2015, 07:27:24 PM

Just for proof i just uploaded this video Michael :)
One of the basic ones.
This is full HD.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on May 29, 2015, 02:31:32 AM
 :o Love that sky!!!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 29, 2015, 02:57:37 AM

:)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on May 29, 2015, 06:36:59 AM
Cool, good that you're back onto it, Kadri!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 29, 2015, 07:12:27 AM

:)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 30, 2015, 10:45:55 AM

Nobody complained about the last scene. It is not 3D actually.
It is the same old image i made in Terragen and shared here.
I just made the canvas a little bigger and made 3 layers in Hitfilm.
2 layers of the image itself (the towers with the ground and the background) and one layer of clouds for the lower left part (4 cloud layers actually).
All other elements and animation are made in Hitfilm.
Had sooo long render times in some scenes that i wanted this one so fast i can :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Hannes on May 30, 2015, 12:45:50 PM
Cool, Kadri! Why choose the hard way, when you can get similar results using layers?
I never heard of Hitfilm before. I just had a look at there website and it seems to be quite interesting. Would this be an alternative to After effects? How steep is the learning curve? That's always something that keeps me from using new software. It usually takes awfully long until you can work the way you want. At least for me, since I'm a slow learner unfortunately.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 30, 2015, 01:25:10 PM

Thanks Hannes.

You know recommending software is hard.
My experience was very nice.
I got from opening Hitfilm to making a scene so fast it was surprising.
I think the main factor for this was the standard old school layering approach.
If you have used any software like Photoshop,After effects etc. it is very easy to use despite the first very different looking GUI you see when you first open it.

You can make high quality work.
But i think it does have still many small and big problems especially for guys who are used to the bigger-older programs that they will see Hitfilm more for the Hobbyist kind of guys...for now.
But for the right scene it is very easy and fast to use and there are many good tutorials.
I watched 2-3 video tutorials and was ready to go in one day.
And it is very fast developing too.

Take a look at this tutorial and you will want to install and play with it immediately probably :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on June 08, 2015, 04:07:09 PM
Gonna have to look into that, thanks Kadri.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 22, 2015, 02:11:37 PM

A little update:

Test or not i wasn't pleased with one scene and disregarded it and made a new scene.
The old one was even at a test level not good for my taste.
The new one is kind of complex and new for me so it takes a little longer then i anticipated.

This is the scene i trow away:

[attach=1]

This was the same but original one:

[attach=2]

The original needed more work too but i don't like the new wide format version.
The composition is bad and would need more work. The vertical composition in the old one looked better to me.
Even animated i didn't liked the newer version. So this one is out.


In the completely new scene i made, i had a very big object in the background with too much displacement
and the laptop where one part of that scene rendered crashed at a certain point even with 16 GB Ram.
I rendered then only the background with that object in lightwave and used a poor mans compositing approach
by using the rendered images in the background node in Terragen.
I am still not comfortable with using passes-render elements as it should be(A good tutorial would be nice). But hey it works :)

One third of this new scene is finished.

See you soon hopefully here ones again :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 22, 2015, 03:08:33 PM

By the way i used the first time the FBX export from Terragen to Lightwave.
It was only for the camera but it worked very nicely.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: bobbystahr on July 23, 2015, 08:47:24 AM
Really like this scene and the tall as opposed to wide format
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 23, 2015, 01:13:45 PM
:)
The tall ones composition is better. With different cloud lighting and ground it would be better probably.Anyway moving on.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 23, 2015, 05:14:32 PM

Small 2 WIP images. They will not look like you see them here most probably.
The last big scene that i added as i said above is rendering now.3 days or so.

After that one it is getting them together in Sony Vegas and Hitfilm.
It is more then 1 year now. Took longer then i thought. But i feel closer now.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on August 24, 2015, 08:15:14 PM
2nd image^^ Looks like "chronicles of riddick"!  8) Only with a "event horizon" twist. Kinda scary looking.
Looks really good.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 25, 2015, 06:43:25 PM

I wasn't going to use that image as it is. But i liked it too.
I think 2-3 seconds of it wouldn't be hard to squeeze into the animation...hopefully :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 23, 2015, 02:25:17 AM

I changed some things after the render and it is re-rendering ones again one part of the last scene.
The image below is a little color graded but still not what it will look in the final animation.But looks close.
This is the same method i used earlier just a little more complicated.
These are only Terragen cloud layers.No polygons.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on September 23, 2015, 04:44:00 AM
Quote
These are only Terragen cloud layers.No polygons.
I still don't get that.  :o
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 23, 2015, 04:57:06 AM

Look at this post (and probably at the whole thread if you will). There is a file attached Michael:

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,12124.msg122025.html#msg122025

With an image texture (or with procedurals as others made before) and appropriate cloud settings you can make clouds look like solids basically.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on September 23, 2015, 06:18:09 AM
Cool effect, Kadri! How about rendertime with such thick cloud? And how about just displacing the planet with the image map?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 23, 2015, 06:39:27 AM

Thanks Ulco.

There are 13 cloud layers with big image files like some 10 000x10 000 or smaller ones and 8 different  6 000x6 000 image sequences.
It takes around 1 hour for every frame. Detail 3 and AA is 12.
I am sick of noise and used these settings to be absolutely sure. Size is 1920x960.
I think it is actually very fast rendering with those settings and all.

A planet approach could be made depending on the scene but these structures are very sharp and steep and the camera begins a little closer.
Ulco you know those kind of displacements are a little more problematic so i found a cloud approach easier in that aspect.

Beside that, i wanted to see an animated version of my old scene ;)

Edit: I should add that the most important factor for fast render time in this scene is the "Step optimisation" option in the "Quality" tab of the cloud nodes probably. It is 20 (you can use higher numbers too as in many other parts in Terragen) in all layers. But the look of the clouds can get very sliced and may or may not work everywhere.   
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 24, 2015, 12:55:40 AM
Your render settings are pretty crazy considering if you're using AA12, then I assume you're using Defer Atmo (if you're *not* using Defer Atmo then AA12 is completely unnecessary and having little effect, just adding to render time). If you *are* using Defer Atmo, then Detail 3 is completely unnecessary as Detail has no effect on atmo quality when Defer Atmo is enabled. ;) So, use one or the other (high Detail without Defer, or high AA *with* Defer), but not both.

Still, surprisingly good render times. But probably mostly because of the high step optimization. That is a setting we would definitely *not* recommend you use in normal cloud situations, nor in animations. In your case it may be working, and that's great if it is because it's making your very high render settings actually not take forever. But for anyone else not rendering a crazy Borg planet thing, we'd recommend leaving Step Optimization at 0. :D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 24, 2015, 04:16:44 AM

LOL not surprised Oshyan.
I will take a look for the settings you recommend.Curious.
When i render with Lightwave i know how i should use the render settings in most cases.
Strangely with Terragen i still feel the need to go to the maximum.
Like an amateur architect that out of fear uses too much steel for his buildings :)

Edit: No "Defer Atmo" by the way. It took too long to render.
        But that was in one of the old test renders. So i have no clue how it would affect now.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on September 24, 2015, 06:51:16 AM
That mechanical planet is ominous and complex. These are some very interesting techniques using clouds.    8)

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 24, 2015, 06:54:55 AM

Thanks :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 24, 2015, 07:59:21 AM

Oshyan with Detail 3 and AA 6 the render time is 2 times or so faster and it might be enough for the final render.
Detail 3 and AA 4 is not good and just a little faster.
Testing is hard because nothing is still. The clouds are animated too.
Even the "Step optimisation" might be a factor because from some angles you can see the slices and they change the look too etc.
Not much time and made all these tests in a hurry. "Defer atmo" needs more tests.

So just to be sure i will settle on Detail 3 and AA 8 without "Defer atmo".
That is still much faster then my original settings.
Hope you are a little more happy with those settings Oshyan  ;D

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on September 24, 2015, 09:06:54 PM
Hehe, fair enough, sounds reasonable given your tests. Looking forward to seeing the results!
 
- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on September 26, 2015, 06:32:49 AM
I can only marvel at.
Amazing technique.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 26, 2015, 07:07:52 PM

Thanks.
Have a look at the file.It is easy actually.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on September 30, 2015, 11:20:22 AM
Quote
It is easy actually.

Mr. Awesome. ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 30, 2015, 02:43:17 PM

Don't do this man  ::)  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on September 30, 2015, 03:15:54 PM
 ;D

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 12, 2015, 01:22:49 AM

It was too late to add this (as pipes for example) but i made this test with clouds just to see if it would work.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on October 12, 2015, 06:37:14 AM
Cool, looks like insulating pipes.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 12, 2015, 06:41:12 AM

Indeed...haven't thought about those :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on October 12, 2015, 08:06:03 AM
Someone has to install the space plumbing.    ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 12, 2015, 08:26:02 AM
 :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 15, 2015, 01:12:47 AM

This is a scene that i made 3 months or so ago. I will not use it.
I don't like some parts and i had to add some things in post to get it work with the overall animation.
I learned some things like that a time lapse can be harder to do then it looks really.
Still it was fun to do.

https://vimeo.com/142453195

You can download the original HD size from the link above.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on November 09, 2015, 02:27:53 AM
were are you on this now, Kadri? Updates?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 09, 2015, 04:46:38 AM

Still rendering. The last scene i added took too much time.
Rendered and changed it maybe 3-4 times.Each render took 2 weeks or so.
Lost too much time as you see. This is one of the things i will try not to do again.
But the heavy part is finishing 1-2 days later.
Then i will make a second rough cut of the whole animation and will add some small scenes that i will need.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on November 09, 2015, 04:52:32 AM
cool. Just making sure you are still going. Helps me to keep going when I see others getting what they set out for.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on November 09, 2015, 05:00:30 AM

:)
Wish i had the standard a little higher at the beginning.
But as you know this short video wasn't at all in my mind at first.
Some scenes are like i want them to be.But some only 70 % or so maybe.
Anyway.Have to live with it :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 11, 2016, 03:13:25 PM

Wanted to make a little update. Still working on the short.
Just because of this thread i felt i should post another image.

This begun as a Terragen scene but later changed to Lightwave.
It is a 40 second animated scene with two colliding Galaxies.
I made it mostly with Lightwave. Postwork and comping done in Hitfilm.
It is a 7 month or so old work actually.


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 16, 2016, 09:59:01 AM

Another small update. This is a small part of the last scene.
Still WIP. I am rendering a little different and bigger animation of this just now.
Full Terragen work only.

https://vimeo.com/155507899
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on February 16, 2016, 11:23:25 AM
Looks mystic... and cool!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 16, 2016, 01:42:02 PM

Thanks.
Still trying a more natural look.Whatever that means when you try to peel(?) a moon like an onion :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 16, 2016, 02:10:58 PM

126 frames rendered already from the supposed more natural look from a 200 frames animation.
As i look at the darker and more complex surfaced version i think i have to change it ones more.
The scene in that i will comp this one is already complex. A simpler surfaced moon animation might be better probably.
At least this one renders very fast. Only 4-5 minutes per frame. In Terragen standards lightning fast :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 16, 2016, 08:58:50 PM

Hmm...need some other thoughts abut this.
I think it is -kinda- more real looking but it doesn't look so aesthetic to me except the beginning and end frames probably.

https://vimeo.com/155589713
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 17, 2016, 12:24:00 AM

Rendering a new big version that is a little more similar to the first one. Hope it works.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on February 17, 2016, 06:37:07 AM
It's cool, but what's the idea behind it?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on February 17, 2016, 09:06:20 AM
A very interesting effect. As if it is being colonized and transformed into some high-tech surface?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 17, 2016, 11:36:20 AM

Chris and Ulco i can't say much without giving away the story, not that the story is very complicated or what.
But Chris you are kinda close. The ground of the alien moon is subtracted layer by layer.
This will be a part of another render comped together. So it isn't the final look quite.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 17, 2016, 12:23:38 PM

This looks OK i think...

https://vimeo.com/155668242
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on February 17, 2016, 12:58:53 PM

Chris and Ulco i can't say much without giving away the story, not that the story is very complicated or what.
But Chris you are kinda close. The ground of the alien moon is subtracted layer by layer.
This will be a part of another render comped together. So it isn't the final look quite.

No problem.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on February 17, 2016, 01:00:43 PM

This looks OK i think...

https://vimeo.com/155668242

The breaking away effect does look more improved in the latest video.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 17, 2016, 01:03:47 PM
The breaking away effect does look more improved in the latest video.

Yes the textures are simpler and lighter, probably because of this and a little postwork.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on February 17, 2016, 01:46:57 PM
Looks good. It also looks like the breakdown is by squarish blocks, almost manmade deterioration of the moon.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 17, 2016, 04:02:38 PM

You are kinda right too Ulco ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on February 18, 2016, 07:12:50 AM
And they haven't even finished killing the earth  :o
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 18, 2016, 05:21:51 PM

This is in another galaxy far far away...or something like that but certainly not related to that movie Ulco ;D

There are different planets and moons in this short animation. It will depict a very long time from the beginning to the end.
At the end are some kinda time-lapse moments too. This alien moon animation is a part of that last part.

This is one of the reason it is still not finished. The last part is -to me- complicated and i have to do many different layers etc.
1-2 years ago i wouldn't even have dared to make this scene. Not that it will be great or whatever but it is hard to do for me.
But i learned many things because of this and i am still having fun.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on February 21, 2016, 04:16:43 PM
Hi kadri,
I was just thinking since you are doing kinda of a experimental short, that you may want to consider some editing tricks to make things a little easier on your self, and perhaps give you more bank for your render bucks.

I was thinking you should edit it the way music videos are edited, so that you can increase the length and deepen the story without adding more rendering.

So for example the images in proper sequence broken up by montage images, where you see every several seconds images that go in order, but the rest of the time images that are not part of the narrative but some how enhance or expand on the main narrative.

And then perhaps rather than music you could use sound effects, and when in space a strategic silence like in "2010". Or then even use some music that you really like for it.

This way you could through a lot of your stills in with just a little effects like this for example :
or a bit more complex: http://www.schoolofmotion.com/make-a-3d-scene-from-a-still/

Or not that, but you get the idea.

 ;D Just getting impatient trying to motivate ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 22, 2016, 02:13:04 AM

Have too watch those videos first Michael.

But before i watch those you can be sure, especially as the animation progressed,
i tried very different techniques just because of render times and because o the different needs of the scenes.

Music is a part that i will just kinda patch on it at the end. Wish this was more a planed project at the beginning.
I will use a classical music most probably and it will be kinda ok hopefully.
I had already made a small library from free internet sources for the explosion and different sound effects before my HD crashed.
Have to do it ones more. I don't like it so much but there will be sound in space...mostly :)

It is the things i added in time that are too complex that made this very much time consuming.
Some are so so, some i like very much....

Thanks for the motivation  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on February 22, 2016, 04:11:02 AM

Thanks for the links Michael.
They are nice tutorials. I already used kinda the same method in this scene with Hitfilm:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,18917.msg197521.html#msg197521

I might have another go with one of my old images with the same method (see this is one of the reason this doesn't finish :) ) ...or not.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on February 29, 2016, 10:54:06 PM
ahh yes, good then.   8) I remember that now.

so then you will really be able to extend things and have that as hedge against render time gaps in your story. Good to go.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on March 06, 2016, 10:53:00 AM

I think-hope that the scene works now (barely) that i worked on for months. 11 seconds only...phew!
Could still add some parts but i call this scene finished.
There are parts of that last chapter that i will begin to work on now...they shouldn't be so hard as this one.
The image shows some parts that i made crudely and fast from a still of the same scene that i shared here before.
They are 10 times or so smaller in the animation. So it is mostly shapes. Nearly like you see them in thumbnail mode below.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on March 06, 2016, 11:21:14 AM
They may be small but still, nice greebles.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on March 06, 2016, 05:57:21 PM

Thanks.
A friend who saw the finished scene reminded me about a part
that i thought it might be kind of not seen by others...grrr...back to editing  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on May 12, 2016, 06:43:18 PM

WIP star animation test. I used Lightwave for this scene:



Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 15, 2016, 10:08:30 AM

Another scene made with Lightwave (It is a WIP).

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on June 15, 2016, 11:00:23 AM
Impressive machinery.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 15, 2016, 11:32:56 AM

Thanks Ulco.
The real animation is only half that long and will have other elements in it.
But it gave me a kinda hypnotic feeling so i made this more for kinda fun only :)

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 15, 2016, 11:43:34 AM
What a machine! Great!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: archonforest on June 15, 2016, 09:22:53 PM
indeed very impressing machinery there! Absolutely cool!!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 16, 2016, 06:45:45 AM
I just saw the animation test - I must have been blind  8). Yesterday my reply was because of the image...

But same reply today: "What a machine! Great!"
(I am absolutely convinced, that you must let my Enterprise explore that machine!  ;D )


Funny, also I found out that some of us  think similar, when I added leading zeros to my folder names this morning... Check your filename and check my folder names...  ;D

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2016, 07:09:24 AM

Thanks guys.

Yeah looks similar  :)
The most i learned in this project is file and folder naming, organizing. Not that i archived that fully.
The folder name of that last scene is "Fast Mountain". Absolutely not related yeah  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2016, 07:13:37 AM

Enterprise would look cool probably in that scene  :)

Modeling kinda works but still have to work on my texturing skills. It is hit or miss sometimes.
Couldn't use reflection, GI in that scene (takes too long to render).
PC Ram use is at 25-28 GB with that scene loaded.
That doesn't help too.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: AP on June 16, 2016, 07:36:11 AM
I missed this this thread for a while but seeing that machine.   8)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2016, 07:43:45 AM

 :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 16, 2016, 08:00:57 AM

Enterprise would look cool probably in that scene  :)

Modeling kinda works but still have to work on my texturing skills. It is hit or miss sometimes.
Couldn't use reflection, GI in that scene (takes too long to render).
PC Ram use is at 25-28 GB with that scene loaded.
That doesn't help too.

I know all of these challenges, too. But my skills are still far behind yours...
I just keep preparing bought or free models to integrate them into Terragen. Even this is a challenge sometimes  ;)

Also sometimes I could cry how big the concessions are, I have to make because of rendertime. My alien queen scene will be only half creepy because I had to delete the fog in the maintenance shaft. Now it still needs 1.5 up to 2.5 hours per frame. With fog (clouds) included it needed 4 up to 8 hours PER FRAME !! (I even checked the lowest atmosphere settings...)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2016, 08:13:43 AM
...
Also sometimes I could cry how big the concessions are, I have to make because of rendertime. My alien queen scene will be only half creepy because I had to delete the fog in the maintenance shaft. Now it still needs 1.5 up to 2.5 hours per frame. With fog (clouds) included it needed 4 up to 8 hours PER FRAME !! (I even checked the lowest atmosphere settings...)

Yeah just because of such problems i am more and more trying to comp things later in post.
That is quite another expertise too that does have its own problems.
You could try that for your scene Doc ?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 16, 2016, 08:37:48 AM
As you perhaps remember I had a first glew on the postwok-software "fusion"...

Somewhere I already have some youtube tutorials. I don't know yet but if learning the software works fast and good, I perhaps will add some goodies to my Terragen renders later  8) ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2016, 08:42:53 AM

Ahhh..yes...Getting old you know :)
I have to learn Fusion too. But after this short is finished.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 22, 2016, 09:56:45 PM

Phew! Nearly 2 years and today i rendered the last scene at last.
I wanted to make another part of this last scene but that would take most probably at least 1 month or more.
Before a raw cut i don't want to make other scenes that i won't need maybe in the end.
I don't know even how long the video is now. But much longer then i thought in the beginning.
Maybe over 6 minutes. For the tiny semi story this might be too long...
Anyway...

Still many things to do.

Now i need music. There are some obvious and quite overused classical parts like these below:

The first is the most i want to use but i have to see how it works with the visuals.







Copyright is another problem. Buying a song to use in youtube or wherever is too expensive...mostly.
I will have to use a free version from the above ones or maybe a version from converted midi that i will only use as a last resort.

The above ones are examples of which kind of music-sound atmosphere i am after,
but i am open for any other suggestion about music and sound.



Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on June 23, 2016, 06:26:52 AM
There are some people around who make music themselves. But not a whole orchestra, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 23, 2016, 06:48:03 AM
I personally liked Bachs D-Dur; BWV 1068 mostly but also depends on the film and what the intention of your music score is.

If you have very much time... (ok I hear you laughing...  ;) :D ) Then you could learn the usage of Magix music maker and buy the soundpools. But a good result need as much time (or even more) than creating a TG image.

I could offer you some of my more relaxing collection, if you like. I must have done more than 100h music with Magix since I left my band 20 year ago. Just pm me if you like to do a "soundcheck".


I almost forgot: unfortunately Magix changed their terms and conditions: The usage of their soundpools is now only for NOT commercial use.  :-[
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 23, 2016, 07:00:58 AM

Doc yes that is one of my favorites and it could work here. I might have forgotten others too.


You might laugh too when i say that i bought Magix Samplitude Pro X2 Suite and Garritan Aria player (when i had still money :D).
I wanted to learn to make music...but that is really something else....

"I almost forgot: unfortunately Magix changed their terms and conditions:
The usage of their soundpools is now only for NOT commercial use."


That is bad. What do they want if you want to use them in commercial work?

Of course i will be happy to listen to your music :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 23, 2016, 07:33:15 AM
No problem. be my guest  :)

https://1drv.ms/f/s!AvEpmvBUHi6qgaUwjH1PgYNfzA1twQ (https://1drv.ms/f/s!AvEpmvBUHi6qgaUwjH1PgYNfzA1twQ)
I hope the link works. It should be a provisorical folder with some pieces from different albums.
Perhaps I'll put all albums there because when I tested the folder, my microsoft account offered me the "online groove player"  immedeately and also I can play all songs on my handy... this weird world of clouds... cool  8)

If not abused by grabbing and using it commercially, I'll let the folder open for everybody. Have fun...  :) 8)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on June 23, 2016, 12:03:11 PM
I grabbed one or two, just to listen. Thanks Nils. But I guess if you leave it open long enough it will be empty before you know  ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 23, 2016, 12:10:42 PM

Thanks for the songs; i am still listening to your music Nils :)
I think it is different to what i want to use in the video.
But i like what i heard until now. Sounds professional to me.
You mentioned a band? Can you talk more about your music background?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 23, 2016, 12:50:09 PM
Thanks Kadri, feels good that you like a bit of it  :)
I shared only the more "esotheric and moviescore-like" but if that is anyway different from what you need, I'll fill up the complete albums. All very mixed styles.

Talking about my music background? Such off topic?  ;D ;D why not... things to read for the others while waiting for new animations  ;) ;D

I was always in touch with music somehow. I learned and played the clarinet in a local orchestra 40 years ago.

Later I learned to know music from Kitaro, Tomita, JMJarre and swiched over to electronics. First I had a Yamaha DS10 (I think that was the name) monophone synth. By the time I could increase my investments from a Yamaha V50 up to the Korg trinity (perhaps some Rolands between...  :)  )

And with the Korg I played two times in a band. We were horrible... no singer, no discipline (especially guitarrist played what he wanted - when he wanted... But the beer was fine  ;D ! Later we were better but I studied in another town and only played for myself. It worked good with the Korg as a multitrack workstation.

Later I played gain with a fantastic singing Girl and a good Singer and guitar player. But these two married and moved somewhere else so I went on creating music for myself. I started to combine The Korg and Magix as mixing software and bought magix soundpools mainly for having a singer... later I just used Magix and it's sound pools to not forget some ideas I had in the night or whenever. So more and more the Korg was asleep and since I tried to make one or the other music video, I more and more stopped making music. Now 99.999% of my spare time is this project to make my dream coming true. A small, weird, unlogic space opera rendered 99% with Terragen  :)

First I wanted to use some music from my albums as movie score but now I see that most song don't match any scene, so I started Magix again. (The Korg is gone...  :( ;) ) Not easy to build a musicscore whicgh has some similarity to well known music scores of the cinema scenery... but I think if I keep practising it sounds not too bad... next teaser will come soon  ;)

In some minutes the cloud should have safed all my latest albums. Most is Magix and very very seldom I am singing. The older stuff should be restored from CCassettes ... perhaps I'll do some day in the future.

Now enough off topic... Hope there will be your next animation soon  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 23, 2016, 01:09:24 PM

Thanks for the information.
Style is a different thing and subjective but it is very apparent that you know what you do in those songs.
Thus i was really curious and not surprised :)

I am still listening. I can't say that about much of the music that is around us now. I like your music :)

Regarding the animation; hard to describe the sound i want other then the examples i posted.
But the words sad, epic and more on the classical sound side are the best i can say about what i want Nils.
I think you already know which kind of sound i want.

Maybe we can work some other things out with PM's later :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 23, 2016, 01:47:54 PM
Ok  :)

Don't eat them all! Can make sick  ;D - upload finished... 95 songs now.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on June 23, 2016, 01:55:11 PM
Ok  :)

Don't eat them all! Can make sick  ;D - upload finished... 95 songs now.

I saw those. This is sabotage how i am supposed to work on the animation now  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 23, 2016, 01:59:16 PM
 ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 21, 2016, 03:27:53 AM

Couldn't resist to try to make a fast different scene. This is a substitute for a scene i didn't liked.

There are some small technical faults but if you think that this is usable enough i won't fiddle with this anymore.


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 21, 2016, 05:05:07 AM
Optically absolute usable! Great!

I don't know what's behind the scene and how it works with the rest of your project but I like the scene!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 21, 2016, 05:17:01 AM
Optically absolute usable! Great!
...

Thanks.

...
I don't know what's behind the scene and how it works with the rest of your project but I like the scene!

Kinda trying to go the epic way so much i can but you will see for yourself hopefully soon enough :)
This is one of the scenes i had to insert from a story telling aspect late down the line.
If others are OK too with the scene (it is not much crowded here anyway ;) ) there are very small 2 scenes left.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on July 21, 2016, 05:46:01 AM
You got my support, it's terrific! I don't think there was any sound with this (or my speakers are blown), but I like the silence. It should be silent, I think; gives it a more ominous, awesome mood. A beep maybe, not music.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 21, 2016, 05:48:39 AM
You got my support, it's terrific! I don't think there was any sound with this (or my speakers are blown), but I like the silence. It should be silent, I think; gives it a more ominous, awesome mood. A beep maybe, not music.

:)

Still not at the music and sound stage Ulco. Anything can happen.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on July 21, 2016, 05:52:33 AM
Is this a private venture, like Nils is doing (finished by 2020-2050), or something commisioned?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 21, 2016, 05:56:03 AM

Just for fun...or masochism  ;)  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on July 21, 2016, 05:56:38 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 21, 2016, 06:19:53 AM

Just for fun...or masochism  ;)  :)

If that is so we can switch roles. I render your scene and you take my dentist appointment today. Funny pain for you and a nice render job for me...

If it works to tell my dentist I could render the dental bridge for her - without any trouble, blood or other mess in my mouth?

 ;D ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 21, 2016, 06:22:48 AM

Just for fun...or masochism  ;)  :)

If that is so we can switch roles. I render your scene and you take my dentist appointment today. Funny pain for you and a nice render job for me...

If it works to tell my dentist I could render the dental bridge for her - without any trouble, blood or other mess in my mouth?

 ;D ;D


 :-X  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Hannes on July 21, 2016, 07:50:51 AM
Poor guys!!  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Seriously, this scene is indeed terrific!! Great job, Kadri!!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on July 21, 2016, 03:48:48 PM

Thanks Hannes.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on August 09, 2016, 07:11:30 AM
 8) crazy man, just crazy.  ;D really fun Kadri, hope the final will be much longer! Worth it i would say. Imagine that scene in VR :o
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 09, 2016, 11:12:48 AM
... Imagine that scene in VR :o

Double render times.... :D

But yeah it would be nice :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Hannes on August 09, 2016, 01:32:49 PM
Double?
At least!!  ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 09, 2016, 07:07:38 PM
Double?
At least!!  ;)

LOL! Yeah at least and that would be crappy VR :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 10, 2016, 03:58:16 PM

After the rough cut (more of a what i have in hand and what i still need between) i saw that i needed 3 scenes. 2 are finished.

The last scene that i needed was an old full Lightwave scene i made nearly 1-2 years ago.
But i felt that i need a kinda closeup of the planet too in that scene.
The planet is fast to render in the beginning. But later it gets much slower.
I am still rendering and the scene is not finished.

So i used something i had not until now...2 things actually.

The first one is rendering only every second image and using PD Howler to morph the between frames.
There are many cheap programs (like PD Howler) and expensive ones of course you can use for this.
I made a 10 frames test (the Terragen planet) with PD howler and made it to 280 frames.
Except just a small part it worked much better then i thought (it is a small moving scene).
It is very scene depended probably. A scene i tried 1 year ago wasn't so good for example.
And be careful PD Howler is still 32 bit and can crash with long-big scenes.

The second thing i tried with this scene was keyframing the image width and height .
The beginning does have more planet ground but the finish is more cloudy.
So i made the image in the beginning Full HD and the finish Half HD.
It gradually lowers the height-width automatically.
The render times are constantly around 30 - 50 minutes per frame in this way.
It is great to have animation capability in nearly every option.

In principle it looks like it works...but not sure if the rendered result will work of course ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 02:46:30 AM

I changed a part in the animation.
So i had to use a part of that scene (moons) in another new scene.
Used this 1 year or so ago made image for that.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on August 29, 2016, 05:55:03 AM
It's almost like an eye in the sky. Nice scene. So, just like Nils, you're working on a long term (private) animation? When will it be finished?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 06:22:28 AM
It's almost like an eye in the sky. Nice scene. So, just like Nils, you're working on a long term (private) animation? When will it be finished?

It should be finished one year ago :)
Seriously i want to finish it so fast i can Ulco. Hopefully in 1-2 months.
Every stage brings new things to do. But i am at the raw editing and after renderings(!) stage at least.

I make the scenes, that i have to add in the last minute, with everything i learned so fast i can without long render times...mostly :)
1 scene looked out of place after the raw edit. So i am making a new one from another old image.
Just was curious and because of render times i am trying to use FBX for an 3D matte approach (2D rendered Terragen image animated in Lightwave) between Terragen and Lightwave.
Standard things for others but all new things to me so it takes more time. But it is fun.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 29, 2016, 06:36:21 AM
Kadri, that is a nice scene!

A pity if the mountains and the dragons (?) won't appear :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 06:41:05 AM
Kadri, that is a nice scene!

A pity if the mountains and the dragons (?) won't appear :)

That scene will be there as you see it :)

The dragons(!) are the green one in the top middle from here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,21366.msg214740.html#msg214740

But no closeup. Would take too much time.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 29, 2016, 06:45:20 AM
Oh I totally missed that post while I was moving into my new home this spring!

Very cool!
Will you animate the dragons?
I still have not tried the experiments of digitalguru from this post http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,21843.0.html (http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,21843.0.html). Not enough time and still not sure if that could work. What do you say?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 06:55:53 AM

I haven't tried it but others use it. Hannes for example used it for a bird flock animation.


The flying aliens are animated but very crudely.
I made a quick and dirty animation. Could be better but it works hopefully.
Animated in Lightwave and comped in Hitfilm.

https://1drv.ms/v/s!Ao9EyFWihNgchn0Khv0VyF7iAii2 

The only thing that i would add is a little wobble that birds have with wind in the air.
But these are big flying aliens to my eye so it is kind of ok.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 07:03:59 AM

The above link is a Onedrive link. It is already heavily compressed.
I suggest downloading instead of watching it there directly.

The colliding moons were made in Lightwave and a little post in Hitfilm but mostly Lightwave.
I wanted to make kind of that scene since years.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 29, 2016, 07:08:09 AM
Wow, really not bad.
At the beginning I was waiting but they were only sailing but some seconds later... nice!
I am still most impressed of the impact!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 07:19:31 AM

The impact is one of the things i like too that i made in these 2 years :)

The aliens weren't there first. After i made the scene the composition looked a little too empty on that side.
Couldn't think of another proper thing to add fastly, so i added those aliens.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on August 29, 2016, 07:23:30 AM
Very cool, Kadri. Your planet colission reminds me of my own experiment: https://vimeo.com/25545212 (https://vimeo.com/25545212) (but without the shattering). The flying dragons are ecquisite.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 07:30:16 AM

Thanks Ulco. Not much science fiction from you around mostly. Nice :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 29, 2016, 07:35:09 AM
I am surprised Ulco! - Nice!  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 07:42:30 AM

If i had time i would have really rendered the lower Terragen part.
But for this scene i used this basic image projection method with the Terragen rendered image.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 29, 2016, 08:03:34 AM
Heard about but never tried Lightwave... and many other "helpful tools"  ;)

One point I am a bit sad about is that I came so late to 3D animation as a hobby. And now because of my "little" project there's just not enough time to learn all the things I'd like to know.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on August 29, 2016, 08:10:44 AM
That's a big problem indeed, time. If you delve into one app and it suits you, the less time you can devote to other apps. Lightwave rendering is something I never tried either, just use it to build stuff. That's what teams are handy for  ;) One knows this app, the other that one...
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 09:10:55 AM
...
One point I am a bit sad about is that I came so late to 3D animation as a hobby. And now because of my "little" project there's just not enough time to learn all the things I'd like to know.

Actually i think one of the best ways to learning a program is by making a project.
In the past i tried to learn everything i saw around. It was just learning without doing anything.
Not the best way. For me at least.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: j meyer on August 29, 2016, 03:34:05 PM
Cool impact(s). :)
Keep it up guys.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 04:27:41 PM

Thanks :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 29, 2016, 10:23:10 PM

When you are rendering the same scene on 2 computers render the odd numbered frames on one and the even numbered frames on the other...
Being aware after 1 day of rendering that you rendered the even numbered frames on 2 computers all along is not funny...

Duh! I am getting old  :o  ;D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: luvsmuzik on August 29, 2016, 10:54:24 PM
Awwww...
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 30, 2016, 05:10:53 AM
Ouch!  :o
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 30, 2016, 06:10:05 AM

Doc do you use any network render manager by the way?

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 30, 2016, 06:39:20 AM
No Kadri, not at all.

My render farm is just 5 PCs each rendering locally but all PCs connected via LAN.
In the office I use my last prof-licence on the old office server I got as present from my boss.
It has no LAN or WAN connection so I can twiggle only with TG3 and less important renderjobs on it in my spare time at lunch or like that.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 30, 2016, 07:50:50 AM
I see.
I would like to use a basic render manager.
Especially when you have to render with different priorities etc. on the computers.
I use 4 computers sometimes.
Nothing so hard at least...if you not forget the even and odd numbering especially  :P  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 30, 2016, 09:16:37 AM

A better link by the way:


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Hannes on August 30, 2016, 09:18:12 AM
This looks really amazing, Kadri! Great work!!!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on August 30, 2016, 09:24:21 AM

Thanks Hannes  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 01, 2016, 01:10:06 PM

One of my friend showed me that the shadow of the small moon is jerky-jumping kinda in the Youtube video.
I thought it was because of the time change that blended the frames a bit and-or the compression Youtube uses.
The original i uploaded was 52 mb, the compressed Youtube file is 10 MB.
But when i played the compressed Youtube file i downloaded from Youtube
on my computer there was not such a big jerkiness of the small moving shadow.
looks like it is related to the way it plays from Youtube only.
You can see the difference by downloading the file or watching it on Vimeo here:
https://vimeo.com/180710509

Vimeo is better from a quality aspect mostly anyway as it looks.

I saw stuttering with Youtube in the past but that was related to other problems mostly on the hardware-software side of the users.

But this is directly related to Youtube as it looks.

Not sure if everyone does have the same problem with Youtube but just be aware it might not be related to Sony Vegas, Hitfilm etc. for example if you see such a problem.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on September 02, 2016, 06:35:48 AM
In fact the vimeo version looks 100 times better!

The youtube version was stuttering on my PC though 120Mbit WAN and needed half of the film to chang from low resolution to HD!

And again I was impressed by the impact! Really nice animation!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 02, 2016, 10:34:08 AM

:)

I am posting in a thread in the Hitfilm forums now because of these kind of problems in Youtube.
There are guys on the internet that say the opposite but mostly i hear is that Vimeo is better and i think for now the same.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: ajcgi on September 02, 2016, 03:05:58 PM
That's looking very nice indeed! Vimeo is much easier to deal with in my experience, from an upload and keep quality perspective. Saying that, seen plenty of decent YouTube vids so someone must be doing it right. :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 02, 2016, 06:50:57 PM
That's looking very nice indeed! Vimeo is much easier to deal with in my experience, from an upload and keep quality perspective. Saying that, seen plenty of decent YouTube vids so someone must be doing it right. :D

Video is another world in itself. There are many variables.
In my case Vimeo's bitrate for example is 12% higher.
So it might be that difference. But Youtube and Vimeo used different AVC codecs.
So it isn't an easy apple to apple comparison and maybe the different AVC codecs are balancing the bitrate difference out.
The video itself does bring it's compression difference etc.
There may be some sweet spots to be found probably :)

Edit: As a user pointed out in the Hitfilm forum saying that Youtube and Vimeo uses different codecs isn't quite right.
        They use H264 in the end but with different settings more to be clear.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on September 05, 2016, 09:48:07 AM
those mountains a rather good Kadri!

About the impact. Why is the main body seem to move? And is the increase in light coming form that real point in space?

Sorry if you wrote on it already, in a hurry.

pretty bad ass though
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 05, 2016, 09:57:48 AM
Thanks Michael.
Think about the move of the main moon as a standard moon move; just faster.
There was just a small glow behind the moon where the opposite impact side is and between the cracks.
I added in post in Hitfilm a gleam effect and small other debris.
Without that gleam effect the impact lacked the light it needed more at the impact side .

How is the new PC going?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on September 06, 2016, 06:38:12 AM
Thanks Kadri, also like the full HD by the way!

Quote
How is the new PC going?

Have to send it back. Bad power supply unit. Whenever I put it to sleep it just shuts down completely. Sigh. They won't just send me a new unit, they say liability bla bla bla.

Never ends man.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 06, 2016, 09:08:20 AM
...
Have to send it back. Bad power supply unit. Whenever I put it to sleep it just shuts down completely. Sigh. They won't just send me a new unit, they say liability bla bla bla.

Never ends man.

Yeah when it happens it sucks. Hope you will get it working soon.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 21, 2016, 02:26:29 PM

This was one of the last scenes i added.
It is 1 minute and 12 seconds long.

Terragen clouds. Same clouds with 3 different render settings to get the look.
Not quite the look i wanted but very close. I had to use some low settings for fast render times.

Exported the Terragen scene as a FBX file and used the same camera move to get the stars rendered in Lightwave.
Some for the background and some for the stars in the Nebula.

Comped all of them in Hitfilm to get the final look.

Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 21, 2016, 03:01:42 PM

This was the last scene i added. It is the same scene from here:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,15653.0.html
I had a similar scene where the camera motion was too fast when i saw the first cut.
It looked out of place. I made this one in the last minute instead.

I am actually quite proud of this one. No...not that it is good or so. It needs more work actually.
But because of the test nature of this animation i wanted to see if i could use FBX for scene and file export from Terragen to Lightwave
and use front projection of the still rendered image from Terragen and animate it in Lightwave.

I exported all the objects as FBX files and used it to render in Lightwave (But front projected with the Terragen rendered image).
The animation is subtle and i had to render the sky, water, islands and the object with the help of render layers separately.
I had to break the object to 3 parts. Animated the water in Hitfilm from the still Terragen image
and used that as front projection in Lightwave etc. 2 years ago i wouldn't even have tried all this.

I will post a link to Vimeo when ready.


Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: archonforest on September 21, 2016, 03:25:09 PM
yesyesyes!! :D
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 21, 2016, 03:33:49 PM
yesyesyes!! :D

LOL.

It is very short. The original is actually 10 seconds long.
Not sure why but Handbrake said 4 seconds is enough so i didn't bother much to change its mind :)

https://vimeo.com/183670432

Downloading the HD version and loop watching it locally is better.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on September 22, 2016, 06:05:37 AM
It's a great shot. Will you be adding something that makes the size comparable? You can't really tell how big this thing is. And how about wave movement? Foam around the object where water hits it? Debris? Or am I asking too much?
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on September 22, 2016, 06:38:34 AM
It's a great shot. Will you be adding something that makes the size comparable? You can't really tell how big this thing is. And how about wave movement? Foam around the object where water hits it? Debris? Or am I asking too much?

I agree with some tweaks, Ulco suggested. The foam around the ship and the waves would be great.

But anyway a impressive scene.
Also impressive, how long you work on your project, too! I found some posts from 2014, I had never seen...  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on September 22, 2016, 03:14:09 PM

Ulco and Nils you both are right on all things.
I thought about to add the things you mentioned.
The original image had the para gliders to show the scale for example.
Adding them would be very easy. But in the basic story-if you could say that- isn't suited for that unfortunately.
And i could not think about other things to show the scale better (without much work).

Foam and better ground shaders was what i thought about too.
It is just that i am really tired of this project and want to finish it so fast i can now.
This project begun as a test but i tried to make it more then that in time.
But still the test nature is there. So i can live with some not so good parts.
There are certainly many things that could be done much better.
Most of the scenes i made in the last 2 years look in this or that way already flawed.
This video i saw lately on Facebook kinda says better what i mean:




But the next project i want to make won't have these kind of excuses for certain.
It will be a kinda funny(hopefully)short story that won't have the "test" tag all over it  :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 18, 2016, 08:39:54 PM

Sound and music is finished.
Just some small touches of visuals here and there and an end credit left.
1 week or so probably.

Honestly just looking at this makes me feel good, more then 2 years :)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on October 18, 2016, 08:47:38 PM
Nice, congrats! Looking forward to the final for sure.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 18, 2016, 09:12:40 PM

Thanks Oshyan.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Dune on October 19, 2016, 08:06:25 AM
I can imagine, for a project that long, you're really thrilled to see the end coming up. Finalizing details. Can't wait to see it.
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: DocCharly65 on October 19, 2016, 09:01:31 AM
Good luck, Kadri, I know that kind of feelings too  :) ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: TheBadger on October 19, 2016, 10:20:53 AM
Good news!!
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 19, 2016, 03:50:28 PM

Thanks all  ;)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Kadri on October 24, 2016, 01:29:12 AM

Here is the finished video guys and girls.
It is a little too serious and a little long probably but i hope you like it:
Try to watch it in HD.

Oshyan could you change the name of this thread to  "Last lights short animation project (finished movie in page 17)"  please :)




Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: yossam on October 24, 2016, 01:57:09 AM
 ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 8)
Title: Re: "Last Lights" animation WIP
Post by: Oshyan on October 24, 2016, 02:10:15 AM
"Last lights short animation project (finished movie in page 17)"

Done deal! Congrats on finishing this huge, lengthy project! I think the final result is beautiful, epic, and contemplative. All good things in my book. :)

- Oshyan
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on October 24, 2016, 02:18:13 AM

Thanks  :)
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: DocCharly65 on October 24, 2016, 05:25:23 AM
Congratulations, Kadri!  :)

[attachimg=1]

I am very happy about the final. Not too long as you thought. Epic, touching and impressive.

(And I still prefer my "natuaral catastrophy interpretation" instead of "war"  ;) )

Very well done!
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Dune on October 24, 2016, 05:46:32 AM
Wow! A great piece of work, you should be very proud! Epic and dramatic indeed, not at al too lengthy or serious, I just love it (as I told you before), even more with the subtle sounds mixed with the music. Very imaginative. Thanks very much for showing it, Kadri.

Ulco
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Hannes on October 24, 2016, 06:45:10 AM
Congratulations Kadri!!! A beautiful piece of work! And definitely not too long. A pleasure to watch!!
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on October 24, 2016, 07:01:48 AM

Thank you all :)
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on October 24, 2016, 07:42:38 AM
...
(And I still prefer my "natuaral catastrophy interpretation" instead of "war"  ;) )
...

LOL! strangely i see an email that says a comment was made in Youtube.
But when i open Youtube i can't see any comment.
Maybe some funkiness in Youtube that will go away later :)
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: j meyer on October 24, 2016, 05:51:55 PM
Congratulations indeed. Nice to see the final finally. :)
Good job and impressive perseverance.
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: DocCharly65 on October 25, 2016, 06:34:30 AM
LOL! strangely i see an email that says a comment was made in Youtube.
But when i open Youtube i can't see any comment.
Maybe some funkiness in Youtube that will go away later :)

 ;D That was me, Kadri. I placed a copy of my post here over there, but still something is wrong with my youtube account...
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on October 25, 2016, 02:53:54 PM
Congratulations indeed. Nice to see the final finally. :)
Good job and impressive perseverance.

Thanks :)



...
 ;D That was me, Kadri. I placed a copy of my post here over there, but still something is wrong with my youtube account...

I still can't see it  ;D
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: ajcgi on October 31, 2016, 12:20:42 PM
I began watching this, then instantly decided to watch at home with the sound turned up... there will be a delayed reaction while I finish work... ;)
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on October 31, 2016, 01:23:44 PM
I began watching this, then instantly decided to watch at home with the sound turned up... there will be a delayed reaction while I finish work... ;)

Yeah big tv's are nice. I had quite an envy when i heard how big a TV-projector setup Oshyan had. And ours isn't quite small too actually (65') :)
I tried to use the stereo aspect so much i could. So a headphone or good setup would be nice.
Although i am sure a sound designer would say a basic speaker is enough for this ;)
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: luvsmuzik on October 31, 2016, 03:36:17 PM
Terrific! Kudos!
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on October 31, 2016, 05:12:50 PM

Thanks.
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: TheBadger on December 28, 2016, 01:25:44 AM
Fine work Kadri. There are some really excellent shots in there!, and really fun over all too.

Rather optimistic on your part though. I think all that space and time you showed is devoid... Just one big death machine... That if there are "engineers" at all, it has to be us. If there is life to be found in the Universe, than we must put it there.
But maybe that is what you showed? Pretty fun in that respect 8) nice and open for interpretation.

So whats the next project? ;D a vacation I suspect

Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on December 28, 2016, 01:38:32 AM
...
Rather optimistic on your part though. I think all that space and time you showed is devoid... Just one big death machine... That if there are "engineers" at all, it has to be us. If there is life to be found in the Universe, than we must put it there.
But maybe that is what you showed? Pretty fun in that respect 8) nice and open for interpretation.
...

Thanks.

Depends on how you look or interpret the video.
All the living things-aliens die except the last planet bridge builders who's next big machine you see in the last scene.

Vacation would be good but always money problems :)

There are some projects i have in my mind but i am reading about physics more lately and just playing a little around in Terragen.
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: dorianvan on December 30, 2016, 01:36:25 AM
Quite a few really good shots. Especially at 4:33-4:46!
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on December 30, 2016, 03:49:19 AM
Quite a few really good shots. Especially at 4:33-4:46!

Thanks. That was one of the later shots.
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: bigben on July 10, 2017, 01:12:52 AM
Wow, I even remember seeing some of the early stills. Some awesome effects in there  8)
Title: Re: "Last lights" short animation project (finished movie in page 17)
Post by: Kadri on July 10, 2017, 01:34:24 AM

Thanks :)