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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Gannaingh on May 20, 2015, 08:20:49 pm

Title: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on May 20, 2015, 08:20:49 pm
Recreating real world places is very tricky since reality is not constrained by RAM, detail settings, or population limits. Despite this I'm attempting to create an acceptable image of the oh so beautiful St. Mary Lake in Montana. I need to work on the strata coloring on the near vertical surfaces as well as improving the sharpness of the eroded surfaces. I'm also missing an island in the lake, but that's relatively easy to fix. Thanks for taking a look!

Title: Re: St Mary Lake
Post by: bobbystahr on May 20, 2015, 08:43:29 pm
Beautiful...from DEM? If so BigBen may have the missing data....
Title: Re: St Mary Lake
Post by: mhaze on May 21, 2015, 03:56:12 am
Lovely - wish I was there :D
Title: Re: St Mary Lake
Post by: Gannaingh on May 21, 2015, 08:17:01 am
Thanks guys! Yes, it is a DEM, doing this without one would significantly increase the challenge to unimaginable levels for me haha.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake
Post by: otakar on May 21, 2015, 12:25:42 pm
The real thing is indeed breathtaking and definitely worth a visit :)

That's a nice render and I really love the variety of trees and shades of colors you have in the foreground. The right hand shore probably needs some attention - more detail. How about the sky? Really needs a Big Sky treatment :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake
Post by: DannyG on May 21, 2015, 07:51:39 pm
This is going to get good... bet!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake
Post by: DocCharly65 on May 22, 2015, 08:03:01 am
I'm curious too.  Will be a great view!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Gannaingh on May 25, 2015, 11:29:01 am
Some improvements have been made, the biggest one being a major change in the lighting to shore more texture on the right hand cliff faces. I need to tweak it some more to get some more light on the left side of the image, but overall it's an improvement. The atmosphere still needs more work, but it's coming along nicely.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: bla bla 2 on May 25, 2015, 11:46:23 am
I like, good. :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Kadri on May 25, 2015, 12:00:52 pm

Nice improvement.
I like the shadows actually.And the rocks do look much more realistic.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: archonforest on May 25, 2015, 01:17:17 pm
Like it. ;)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: AP on May 25, 2015, 05:25:01 pm
This is very nice. The foreground trees are very realistic for one thing.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Oshyan on May 26, 2015, 01:03:13 am
This looks quite good. Nice work!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Hannes on May 26, 2015, 03:15:47 am
That second one looks much more realistic!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: mhaze on May 26, 2015, 04:15:14 am
Excellent, looks much better.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: DocCharly65 on May 26, 2015, 06:04:42 am
As a matter of fact - much better!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Tangled-Universe on May 26, 2015, 07:49:52 am
Looking good so far!

Is it possible for you to share the DEM and perhaps even the clipfile for the camera? :)
I really like this POV as well as the challenge to reproduce the real thing or at least something convincingly photorealistic.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: bobbystahr on May 26, 2015, 09:57:53 am
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on May 26, 2015, 07:49:52 am
Looking good so far!

Is it possible for you to share the DEM and perhaps even the clipfile for the camera? :)
I really like this POV as well as the challenge to reproduce the real thing or at least something convincingly photorealistic.

Cheers,
Martin



Hear Hear...it would be a lovely vacation location to set up and render.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: otakar on May 26, 2015, 12:19:23 pm
Nice! The trees on the right shore seem a bit uniform in color, but I am sure that's still WIP. I found this reference image: https://bloggertobenamedlater.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/goose-island-panorama-edited.jpg - there should be more brown/grey tones. Man, I do miss that place!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: DannyG on May 26, 2015, 01:39:40 pm
Nice work on this, this dem has tons of great POV's. You need to add the Little Wild Goose Island in the center of the lake that would really add to this
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Gannaingh on May 26, 2015, 05:33:00 pm
Thanks all! I'll  get a the DEM and camera clip file packaged up later tonight. Danny is absolutely correct, this area has tons of beautiful locations.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Gannaingh on May 26, 2015, 09:52:06 pm
Here is a link to the base files used in this scene. The DEM is rather large, GNP is well worth it!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0zd0sc5j9vyg6zo/St%20Mary%20Lake%20-%20Sharing.zip?dl=0
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: bobbystahr on May 26, 2015, 10:07:16 pm
Sa-weet!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: Tangled-Universe on May 27, 2015, 03:38:53 pm
Thanks a lot :)

Looking forward to your next version though!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V2
Post by: TheBadger on May 27, 2015, 10:42:29 pm
Pretty great! 8)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: Gannaingh on May 28, 2015, 08:23:09 am
Making its appearance for the first time, please give a warm welcome to Wild Goose Island. The island is the same size as in real life, but it looks too big IMO so I'm probably going to reduce the size. Its presence also makes me want to pay some more attention to the water to smooth out the waves, since right now they're a little choppy. I also need to thin out the tree populations in the appropriate places, particularly along the right hand slope. Thanks for taking a look!

Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: Dune on May 28, 2015, 10:45:41 am
Looks really good.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: DannyG on May 28, 2015, 10:49:14 am
Looks real good
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: bobbystahr on May 28, 2015, 04:17:32 pm
Maybe, but it seems o k size wise from my memory of the pano photo..maybe zoom out with the arrows not the - +/- buttons.that shouls change the apparent distance tween the islands near camera shore and the tree line in the foreground.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: archonforest on May 28, 2015, 04:19:41 pm
Nice view and render ;)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: otakar on May 29, 2015, 03:59:43 pm
Man, you even put the trees in their right place on the island. I suggest upping the vegetation line on the island, leaving only light colored rocks near water line. That should shrink its perceived size to the eye. Also, it seems the render is kind of dark, except for the sky. More GI?
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V3
Post by: TheBadger on May 29, 2015, 04:55:16 pm
VERY FUN!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V4
Post by: Gannaingh on June 04, 2015, 08:06:14 pm
A long overdue update! I've been working primarily on the surfacing and lighting. I fixed the strata image map so it is now in the proper orientation as well as adding more shaders to give a bit more coloring variety and realism. I also tweaked the sun and atmosphere to brighten up the scene and add a blue coloring to the atmospheric haze. I think I'm going to stay with a wide open sky since I'm a fan of the hot summer feeling it brings. I need to do some trimming in the foreground trees to make it less of an oddly thick blanket of trees.

Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V4
Post by: Clay on June 04, 2015, 08:11:51 pm
Very nice.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V4
Post by: Dune on June 05, 2015, 01:41:36 am
I like this render. Realism topnotch.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V4
Post by: bobbystahr on June 05, 2015, 09:35:06 am
Really makes me want to be there, and as it is an actual place but in a country I can't get into, a tad frustrating. But very lovely and by the pano, true. *****
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V5
Post by: Gannaingh on June 08, 2015, 08:50:13 pm
I've made major changes to the foreground. Instead of a wall of trees, I'm going for a more open feel. The spit of land on the left was to test my surfacing an population distribution and it will be extended a crossed more of the foreground, if not all the way to the right side of the image. I like the openness and I feel it creates more natural "flow" of the image into the background than the trees did.

Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V5
Post by: mhaze on June 09, 2015, 02:22:44 am
Superb!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V5
Post by: Dune on June 09, 2015, 02:40:32 am
You know, I was actually thinking that from the start (but never commented on it). The openness makes it perfect!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V5
Post by: bobbystahr on June 09, 2015, 08:38:10 am
Quote from: Dune on June 09, 2015, 02:40:32 am
You know, I was actually thinking that from the start (but never commented on it). The openness makes it perfect!


Agree with Dune but also think, from the pano as reference, the trees could use thinning on the slopes for sure. Need to see more ground I think, but it's a really fine image growing before our eyes....
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V5
Post by: Gannaingh on June 09, 2015, 10:28:50 pm
Thanks all for the kind comments! The tree distribution is the next hurdle for the image, I imagine a painted shader will be my best bet.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V5
Post by: Henry Blewer on June 10, 2015, 11:57:11 am
Very great work here. Look forward to the final render.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V6
Post by: Gannaingh on June 15, 2015, 08:55:20 pm
I've made progress on the vegitation distribution to bring the image more in line with reality. The texturing on the stones on the mountain slope is exceedingly basic for now and is very much in need of additional texturing. I also modified the camera FOV and focal length, slightly including switching on the fisheye setting, which helps the overall shape of the background mountains to better match by reference image. I forgot to switch the water shader's texture off of the default shader so please feel free to use your imagination to fill that part in.

Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V6
Post by: bobbystahr on June 15, 2015, 09:52:44 pm
Quote from: Gannaingh on June 15, 2015, 08:55:20 pm
I've made progress on the vegitation distribution to bring the image more in line with reality. The texturing on the stones on the mountain slope is exceedingly basic for now and is very much in need of additional texturing. I also modified the camera FOV and focal length, slightly including switching on the fisheye setting, which helps the overall shape of the background mountains to better match by reference image. I forgot to switch the water shader's texture off of the default shader so please feel free to use your imagination to fill that part in.


I'd like to see a bit of the right hand shore myself but the Fish eye is what a real camera would give you so a smart choice there. The veg is looking much better. Texturing...the fun bit...
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V6
Post by: DannyG on June 16, 2015, 08:24:41 am
This is really looking great !
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on June 23, 2015, 07:41:26 pm
I think I'm getting closer to finalizing this one.  I spent a lot of time on the water trying to simulate the wind's effects on the water and I've achieved some decent results. Unfortunately the current method, multiple water shaders, is a render time hog so I'm going to replicate the appearance with some default shaders/surface layers.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Clay on June 23, 2015, 09:16:16 pm
Nicely done!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Oshyan on June 23, 2015, 10:58:26 pm
Beautiful. I think maybe just desaturate and/or darken the conifers a tad?

Also, are you not using a Water Shader (and thus unable to use the Wind Patch effect)?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Dune on June 24, 2015, 01:55:56 am
Also for others: if you disable reflection and transparency you can stack water shaders as children of surface layers and mask these by multiple PF's for variation of the waves, or add PF's as waves, and/or stretch certain waves by hauling through transform shader. Then finally use a reflective shader (in this case), but you already do that I believe.
I like this water, but a tad more wind diversity might be nice.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on June 24, 2015, 08:49:05 am
Oshyan, I'm using a pair of merged water shaders to get the differentiated blue and reflective water. I tried getting the desired effect with the water shader's wind patch effect, but I wasn't satisfied with the result so I switched to the merged water shaders. However, that turned out to be quite slow so I'm now using pretty much exactly the methodology that Dune has described :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: RArcher on June 24, 2015, 11:29:08 am
This has really come along nicely.  I like the foreground trees in theory, but the lower quality models are really distracting from the realism of the rest of the image.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Cocateho on June 24, 2015, 12:20:30 pm
This is very nice! Two suggestions. Some high cirrus clouds  and  some wildflowers in the field in front and also on the right side in the distance to add some color/ interest/detail on a small scale as well as overall. Beautiful though  :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Tangled-Universe on June 25, 2015, 05:57:58 am
Quote from: Cocateho on June 24, 2015, 12:20:30 pm
This is very nice! Two suggestions. Some high cirrus clouds  and  some wildflowers in the field in front and also on the right side in the distance to add some color/ interest/detail on a small scale as well as overall. Beautiful though  :)


I disagree on the addition of clouds.
In my opinion many scenes are easily "over-stuffed" with features.
Personally I like it better when a rich detailed surface, also with wildflowers and such, is best balanced with a clear and rather "empty" sky.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 25, 2015, 06:14:33 am
I agree with Tangled-Universe.

I like it as it is
(subject slightly reduced saturation)  :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Kadri on June 25, 2015, 06:17:34 am

Looks like a photo :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on June 25, 2015, 02:01:55 pm
Thank you, all, for the comments and suggestions!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: otakar on June 25, 2015, 05:19:51 pm
Well done! Agree about the water, less uniformity would be an improvement.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: WAS on June 25, 2015, 11:51:30 pm
Wow fantastic! And what forest pack is that? The trees look insanely detailed.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on June 27, 2015, 11:27:52 am
WASasquatch, the trees are from X-frog's USA Conifers pack.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V8
Post by: Gannaingh on July 05, 2015, 10:18:46 pm
At long last I have an update. It was almost finished before I had to leave to go camping, but not quite. I added some wildflowers to the foreground shore, but they're difficult to see since that area is bushy more than just covered in grass. I also spent a good deal of time refining the water surface and I think it has a much better balance between the wind swept areas and the calmer water. I think I might be just about done with this one besides rendering it larger.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Dune on July 06, 2015, 02:41:02 am
It's absolutely perfect now! Water is indeed very good, lively and not overdone. Won't you lower the camera just a bit so you can see a small section of shore on the lower rim, enclosing the lake? I miss that, somehow.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 06, 2015, 04:49:54 am
great image !!!

I like every detail.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Kevin F on July 06, 2015, 06:31:32 am
Beautiful image! So realistic.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on July 06, 2015, 08:30:51 am
Thank you!

Dune, unfortunately there is a bit of a knoll just in front of the camera's location that blocks out part of the foreground if I lower the camera any more. I could, however, extend the shore to give a similar looking end result.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: bobbystahr on July 06, 2015, 12:22:02 pm
Beauty...adding to the shore would be cool but it's great as it stands in my book....
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: otakar on July 06, 2015, 05:33:50 pm
Water's definitely improved, yes! I'd like to see more of the shore as well. If you want to keep the camera at the same position you can always lower the terrain just in front of it. Is the green tinge intentional (atmosphere)?
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on July 07, 2015, 08:04:57 pm
This is my first attempt at extending the shore blended into the previous image. I want to push it a bit further in the middle so it's not so close to the edge of the picture as well as improving the wildflower variety.

Otakar, if there is a green tint to the atmosphere it is unintentional, since it looks pretty darn blue on my monitor. Pesky RGB values haha.

Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: bobbystahr on July 07, 2015, 09:55:06 pm
Perfect  *****
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Dune on July 08, 2015, 01:58:34 am
Yes, I totally agree. Realism Top Notch.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 08, 2015, 02:57:38 am
I thought it couldn't be better - -but it is!!!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: kaedorg on July 08, 2015, 03:07:30 am
Just beautiful. Impressive water surface. 5 stars view.

David
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Oshyan on July 09, 2015, 01:39:32 am
I do find it almost a bit too blue-green. Some minor color adjustment on my end makes it ever so slightly more awesome, but it may just be personal taste. :D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 09, 2015, 04:15:51 am
Very good! :)

Yes, this is (somehow) definitely greenish, but I don't really dislike it.
However, I do wonder how it looks when the sky is deep blue like in a clear sky or when you take a picture with a circular polarizer.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: TheBadger on July 09, 2015, 02:14:29 pm
pretty great
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: fleetwood on July 09, 2015, 02:45:01 pm
A real beauty.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Oshyan on July 09, 2015, 07:25:53 pm
Yes, exactly T-U. It's the sky (in large part) that is a signal to the (maybe) odd color...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: bobbystahr on July 09, 2015, 08:31:22 pm
to a blue/green colour blind dude it looks pretty good, heh heh heh
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: DannyG on July 09, 2015, 11:23:27 pm
Damn good render, well done
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on July 10, 2015, 12:25:04 am
Thank you, all! I'll do a some experimenting to see I can determine where the green atmosphere is coming from.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - Final
Post by: Gannaingh on July 16, 2015, 11:17:04 pm
Here is my final version! I added more land to the shore because I wanted more area to display the patches of wildflowers. I also tried to make the image more blue by altering the atmosphere's color as well as the color of the haze. I can see a bit of a difference, but I dont know how noticeable it will be to you all since I hardly noticed the green tint to begin with haha. Thanks for watching my progress on this one!

Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Kadri on July 16, 2015, 11:38:37 pm

Lovely!
Looks like a photo.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Oshyan on July 17, 2015, 01:10:50 am
Pearfect. Like a pear! :D No, truly it's beautiful. It's definitely more blue now, and it has a high altitude feel as a result, which I think is good. The upper half of the image is basically photo quality. The lower half is really good, but slightly let down (I think) by the evergreen model(s), which look just a bit stiff and overly saturated and bright here. A little plastic-like perhaps. But this is really a pretty minor critique of an overall excellent image!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Antoine on July 17, 2015, 10:15:04 am
Indeed, It is so realistic ! Perhaps adding just a few clouds ?
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: DannyG on July 17, 2015, 10:35:46 am
Love it, well done
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: otakar on July 17, 2015, 12:20:51 pm
Congrats, this is the best one, definitely! I'll be there in a couple of months, can't wait :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: zaxxon on July 17, 2015, 12:45:32 pm
Beautiful and meticulous detail in the background, well done. The scene is worthy of some better tree models though. While the sky and reflection colors are better then the earlier versions, to my eye it still seems a bit 'greenish', especially given the altitude. But minor quibbles for such a stunning image.
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Tangled-Universe on July 17, 2015, 03:05:14 pm
Awesome work man! :)
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Jo Kariboo on July 17, 2015, 11:21:12 pm
Excellent and beautiful !!!
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Oshyan on July 17, 2015, 11:59:34 pm
zaxxon, maybe you can build him a better model or two? :D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: St Mary Lake - V7
Post by: Gannaingh on July 18, 2015, 11:46:31 am
Thank you, all!  ;D