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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: TheBadger on December 01, 2015, 12:43:36 pm

Title: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 01, 2015, 12:43:36 pm
I have read a few threads where it was posted that 4D noise should be turned on for cloud animations.

1) If 4D is turned on, but no other parameter is animated, then what should the result be? What is 4D animating?

My goal is to have the clouds moving in place. That is, that they are active but that the localized cloud is not moving in the xyz itself. I thought 4D may accomplish this, am I wrong? Or must I also always animate one of the XYZ coordinates? I had read that I should probably animate the Y, though I don't know why? Because if I need to move the location of the localized cloud, I believe that I need to do it in either the x or z for my case.

Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 01, 2015, 01:30:05 pm
Additionally,

When I set an animation key in 4D noise starting with Zero (frame 1), and going to 0.005, (frame 100) and then move the time slider at the bottom of the TG UI, I can see that the 3D parameter goes from zero to 2.6 in frame two, to 5.3 in frame 3 to 8.2 in frame4, to, 0.000112924 in frame 5. then in from 100 it is finally what I keyed 0.005

What the hell?
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 01, 2015, 03:27:31 pm
4D Noise is a bit tricky to wrap your mind about.
Basically if you animate the noise as 4D noise you are animating all dimensions at once.

In practice this means that if you do not animate on xyz, but with 4D noise only, that the clouds appear and disappear over time with some appearance of movement, but not in a distinct direction and rather random looking.

Quote from: TheBadger on December 01, 2015, 01:30:05 pm
Additionally,

When I set an animation key in 4D noise starting with Zero (frame 1), and going to 0.005, (frame 100) and then move the time slider at the bottom of the TG UI, I can see that the 3D parameter goes from zero to 2.6 in frame two, to 5.3 in frame 3 to 8.2 in frame4, to, 0.000112924 in frame 5. then in from 100 it is finally what I keyed 0.005

What the hell?


This is due to the TCB interpolation method.
Hit F8 and navigate to your animated parameter in the left panel.
Then select your animated parameter so that's highlighted/selected and change the method from TCB to linear.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 01, 2015, 05:32:32 pm
QuoteIn practice this means that if you do not animate on xyz, but with 4D noise only, that the clouds appear and disappear over time with some appearance of movement, but not in a distinct direction and rather random looking.


That should work for me as a description. I can see it I'm my mind so that should be enough.

QuoteHit F8 and navigate to your animated parameter in the left panel.
Then select your animated parameter so that's highlighted/selected and change the method from TCB to linear.


Ok, I will do that, thank you. But can you also find a good way to explain how I am to measure/anticipate movement? Are we still talking about meters then?

So when putting in a number to decide the amount of movement, what are we talking about here?.. What is a fine small number to start with, and what is a big number? Does that make sense? Its a little confusing because the clouds but not the location of the clouds is to change, and this will happen everywhere in all possible directions (though perhaps not within the view of the render. It makes me visualize that the clouds will break up, like stretching taffy, sorta.

Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Hetzen on December 01, 2015, 05:39:43 pm
Try it and find out. Do a low rez test first to see if you've got the right pace.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Hetzen on December 01, 2015, 05:40:46 pm
Try your PF on some ground displacement if clouds will take too long to render.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 01, 2015, 08:16:00 pm
Quote from: Hetzen on December 01, 2015, 05:40:46 pm
Try your PF on some ground displacement if clouds will take too long to render.


Hmmm, never thought of that. Seems perfectly logical now that you said it, but never realized there was no difference. Just kinda compartmentalized it all... Clouds in the cloud area, terrain in the terrain area... Funny :-\.


Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Hetzen on December 01, 2015, 08:45:51 pm
It's just patterns.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 02, 2015, 06:57:24 pm
QuoteHit F8 and navigate to your animated parameter in the left panel.
Then select your animated parameter so that's highlighted/selected and change the method from TCB to linear.


For some reason, this does not work for TG OS X. I have those keys on my keyboard (fKeys) and they are turned on, but they don't do anything in TG re the instruction in quote. That aside, what other way can I access those options (TCB to linear)?
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Matt on December 02, 2015, 08:52:59 pm
F8 opens the Animation Panel on Windows. On the Mac the shortcut may be different, but you can find it in the menus.

If you're talking about "4d noise speed" or "Reference frame number", those parameters don't need to be animated. Simply by having a "4d noise speed" with a non-zero value causes animation to occur. Like putting your car in cruise control at 60 miles per hour, this results in movement at a constant speed. The speed controls don't need to animate, and in fact if you animate them it makes the animation even more confusing.

Matt
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 02, 2015, 09:17:21 pm
Thank YOU!!

I thought I remembered something like that (about the just turning it on) but I was reading a lot and I got really confused about some stuff.

Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 03, 2015, 05:37:03 pm
OK, No mater what I do, I don't see any result at all.

I have moved the xyz and I have used 4D. But when I check the frames in after effects, I see no movement at all.

I don't know what I am not doing that I should. Im stuck.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Hetzen on December 03, 2015, 05:57:06 pm
Just checked the 4D noise box, pointed the camera down and rendered 12 frames at default settings.

Have you checked 'import Tiff sequence' in After Effects?
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 03, 2015, 06:42:47 pm
Thanks Hetzen

That was it. Haven't used AE in a while and forgot to click sequence. Probably had this right from the start and just made this stupid mistake. >:(

Well, back to the beginning to retest.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Hetzen on December 03, 2015, 08:49:21 pm
Keep playing. Love the fact you guys are exploring things. This is nature we're playing with!  ;)
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Dune on December 04, 2015, 02:19:25 am
Jon, I take this opportunity to say I'm glad you're here again  :)
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 04, 2015, 09:09:12 am
Everything is working. ;D And it works just like I thought it was going to, before I lost my place and could not figure out how any of it worked ::)

Ok, and there was one interesting thing that I am not sure if it is a random coincidence or is how it will always work...

When I turned on the noise my clouds changed in the first frame (from what they were to more coverage.) And by the last frame the clouds appear to be just as they were before turning on the noise. I expected the opposite to happen, like moving the xyz. I guessed that I should use frame one as the reference frame. (no docs on this remember)

So is what I am describing what should have happened they way I described it, or what? So the first frame will be altered, and the rest will move the clouds back to the starting place? Or this is determined by the "reference frame", or?

Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Matt on December 04, 2015, 02:22:07 pm
The 4D noise will always be different from 3D noise, just as if you had chosen a different seed. If it looks similar on the last frame, that's just a coincidence.

Matt
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: Matt on December 04, 2015, 02:27:18 pm
The "reference frame" is the frame at which changing the speed has no effect. For example, if the reference frame is 1, then frame 1 will look the same no matter what you choose for the noise speed. This is like the starting line, if we continue the analogy of a car travelling along a road. Every other frame will be calculated according to the time difference from this frame. The shape of the noise depends on the time difference multiplied by the noise speed.

Matt
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: bobbystahr on December 04, 2015, 02:29:39 pm
Quote from: Matt on December 04, 2015, 02:27:18 pm
The "reference frame" is the frame at which changing the speed has no effect. For example, if the reference frame is 1, then frame 1 will look the same no matter what you choose for the noise speed. This is like the starting line, if we continue the analogy of a car travelling along a road. Every other frame will be calculated according to the time difference from this frame. The shape of the noise depends on the time difference multiplied by the noise speed.

Matt



Great, that answers my unasked query...thanks.
Title: Re: 4D noise in clouds for animation
Post by: TheBadger on December 04, 2015, 06:20:27 pm
Thank you. Pretty clear now.