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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: PabloMack on February 26, 2017, 04:41:45 PM

Title: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on February 26, 2017, 04:41:45 PM
I just checked Amazon and it seems you can now buy AMD Ryzen processors and motherboards that use them. Here are some videos that talk about the available models:



Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: archonforest on February 26, 2017, 05:08:23 PM
Hopefully it means some price drop for us :D
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: penboack on February 26, 2017, 06:34:55 PM
More info here http://www.anandtech.com/show/11143/amd-launch-ryzen-52-more-ipc-eight-cores-for-under-330-preorder-today-on-sale-march-2nd (http://www.anandtech.com/show/11143/amd-launch-ryzen-52-more-ipc-eight-cores-for-under-330-preorder-today-on-sale-march-2nd)
Its great to see some competition in the market.
I'm interested to see if one of the workstation builders offer workstations built around this which would give me more confidence to consider AMD as an alternative to Intel if I get round to building a PC later this year.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: archonforest on February 26, 2017, 06:46:39 PM
They kicking serious butt. The monopoly of Intel is shaking right there and now...hehehe...good for us. Finally!
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: masonspappy on February 27, 2017, 01:49:55 AM
 Think I will wait until seeing more third-party benchmarks before making a decision. AMD seems to be patterning this new technology after the existing I3/I5/I7  Intel platforms. Specific to what we do here, I'm not so interested in Comparing single core throughput as opposed to how much/fast work a group of cores can push through the pipeline.  If AMD can produce  processors with absolutely equivalent functionality but a price point that is half of Intel's then that is definitely worth considering . But I really want to hear someone besides AMD say all of this.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Kadri on March 02, 2017, 09:18:03 PM

Maybe not so much for gaming (still great for that money) but for rendering it looks good for the price.
We will see much lower prices from Intel probably.
Considering the prices as they are now i think AMD made a nice CPU this time.

http://www.pcworld.com/article/3176191/computers/ryzen-review-amd-is-back.html?page=2

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/03/amds-moment-of-zen-finally-an-architecture-that-can-compete/
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Matt on March 02, 2017, 11:18:07 PM
Who will be the first to test this with Terragen?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Mid-Knight Acchan on March 02, 2017, 11:39:34 PM
By the way, when confirming the result of the benchmark, no one is doing a report of the results after TG4.???
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 03, 2017, 05:20:47 AM
We prefer people not use the older Terragen 3 benchmark for Terragen 4, although admittedly we have no replacement yet...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on March 04, 2017, 01:42:01 PM
Who will be the first to test this with Terragen?

Although I have used nothing but AMD processors (with the single exception of the Intel that is in my Newtek TriCaster) since Jan 2010 when I built my AMD Red Dragon Special Edition (Cooler Master), I will have to make due with the render farm I have at present. My plan is to build a render machine based on a minimum of the 32-core (Naples processor) slated for 2nd Qtr of this year. The Starship processor will have 48-cores but isn't due until next year. I will be happy to test Terragen performance at that time.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 04, 2017, 07:22:58 PM
Naples could be incredible. I am *really* curious to see how they price it...

Edit: Oh, damn. I just discovered that apparently Naples is going to be base clocked at 1.4Ghz per core! Using the up-to-now reasonable estimation of performance for Intel chips of simply multiplying clock speed times (physical) core count - and since the Zen architecture seems to be reasonably on-par with Intel's architectures at this point and thus is semi-directly comparable - that gives us about 45Ghz of base-clocked computing power over 32 threads. Comparing that against the Ryzen 1800x at 3.6Ghz base clock and 8 cores, we get just under 29Ghz. Given the price of the 1800x, Naples will have a hard time getting *anywhere* near that price/performance ratio, unfortunately.

Since there is always some amount of overhead in handling large thread counts it's also more advantageous to have fewer cores/threads at higher clock, which will also count against Naples. Hmm.

Now compare it against Intel, where their top-end chip has 24 cores at 2.2Ghz, so just under 53Ghz equivalent computing power, and on fewer threads as well. Even worse, from a price/performance standpoint, I picked up a used dual 8 core machine (16 physical cores total) a couple months ago on eBay with 128GB of RAM, 2.9Ghz per core, for about $1800. My machine has a bit older Intel architecture, but still fairly competitive with modern CPUs (it's in the top 10 on TG benchmark results), and has about 46.5Ghz using that simplistic calculation. That means that in theory my current machine will outperform or at least match Naples when it arrives.

I want to be clear that calculating this way is only intended as a ballpark estimate, but it holds true enough that I'm less enthused now about Naples. I hope AMD can get the base clock speed up a lot higher very quickly...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Kadri on March 06, 2017, 10:41:44 AM

Where did you read about Naples Oshyan?

Some other render benchmarks:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/the-amd-zen-and-ryzen-7-review-a-deep-dive-on-1800x-1700x-and-1700/18
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: archonforest on March 06, 2017, 12:01:15 PM

Where did you read about Naples Oshyan?

Some other render benchmarks:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/11170/the-amd-zen-and-ryzen-7-review-a-deep-dive-on-1800x-1700x-and-1700/18

Pretty impressive multi thread numbers there! Looks like the ryzen will be really good for TG.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 06, 2017, 06:59:12 PM
Yeah, Ryzen looks to be killer for rendering, not only for price/performance, but also for performance-per-watt! Look at the power usage figures for those CPUs. The Ryzen 1700 (not X) is less than half the price *and* less than half the wattage of i7 5960X and yet matches it in rendering performance. Awesome stuff.

Interesting, however, to see the AMD CPUs lagging on OpenCL workloads given than OpenCL is kind of their creation. Although some of those benchmarks look to be having optimization issues, you can see signs of artificial performance limitations (not intentional, but probably unnecessary nonetheless).

As for Naples, the expected base frequency is reported in many places:
https://www.top500.org/news/amd-readies-naples-cpus-to-do-battle-with-intel-skylake-xeons/
http://wccftech.com/amd-zen-naples-server-cpu-vega-gpu-platform/

I really hope they end up putting out something good in-between the desktop Ryzen CPUs and the server Naples ones. Workstation CPUs that match or exceeded Intel's core count and clock speed for a lower price seems like a real necessity for AMD's overall success, at least in the content creation space.

- Oshyan

Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Kadri on March 06, 2017, 07:22:26 PM

Thanks Oshyan. Hope it goes well with those AMD CPU's. Intel prices are ridiculous since a long time.
I didn't want to change my PC (i7 2600k) just because of the limited gain you get for that price difference.
In the past i changed my computer nearly in less then 2 years. This is now probably 4 or so.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 06, 2017, 07:37:22 PM
Well, I think by later in 2017 (Q3/Q4) we'll have a pretty clear idea of where AMD and Intel settle on price and performance. It will probably be a great time to buy a new machine no matter which you choose. AMD will almost certainly remain the price/performance leader, but Intel may have to cut prices fairly aggressively to remain competitive, so later this year may have some real deals.

The great thing is we know the Ryzen 1700, 1800, and 1800x are all great deals already today, and prices won't be going up on those CPUs, only down if anything (likely not down before the end of the year though I'd guess). So even if Intel doesn't shift much, we know that right now we can put together an entire high-end 1800x machine that will match or beat Intel's top-of-the-line desktop CPUs in rendering, and for *less* than the price of the *CPU alone* on the Intel side (i7-6900k, $1050USD currently).

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 06, 2017, 08:39:55 PM
I found a Ryzen benchmark for Terragen 4. :D
https://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2017/03/02/amd-ryzen-1800x-and-am4-platform-review/6

Unfortunately these guys use a very old benchmark from the TG2 days, so it doesn't match with our existing TG3 benchmark list results. Nor do we have any 6900k results on that list anyway. But we can see at least that the 1800x is very close in performance to the 6900k, and we also know that CPU is about twice the price of the 1800x, as previously mentioned. So the rendering performance seen in other apps seems to hold with Terragen as well, not surprisingly, and this just reinforced that Ryzen is a great choice for anyone planning to build a Terragen machine this year.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Kadri on March 06, 2017, 09:25:59 PM

Looks like rendering will be fun ones again until we put 2-4 times more detail in our scenes :)
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: bobbystahr on March 11, 2017, 03:33:00 PM
More info here http://www.anandtech.com/show/11143/amd-launch-ryzen-52-more-ipc-eight-cores-for-under-330-preorder-today-on-sale-march-2nd (http://www.anandtech.com/show/11143/amd-launch-ryzen-52-more-ipc-eight-cores-for-under-330-preorder-today-on-sale-march-2nd)
I'm interested to see if one of the workstation builders offer workstations built around this which would give me more confidence to consider AMD as an alternative to Intel if I get round to building a PC later this year.

Well I may just be getting this in the near future as my builder is an AND dude and he's offered, if he can swing it, to replace the under-powered old tech one he put in my system with the new Ryzen...I am ever hopeful and will post when I know...soon I hope.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: bobbystahr on March 11, 2017, 03:48:24 PM
Who will be the first to test this with Terragen?


hopefully I will but promises from builders are like ice cubes in hot summer...they evaporate quite fast so I'm hopeful if not totally optimistic

EDIT
He came by and as y'all said, it was Bad RAM....he replaced it but it's a mystery as when he installed the RAM originally he did the same test and it came out Good. So i have a substitute 16G in her now and it's rendering well. But he's trying to get me an engineer's copy of the Ryzen in return for a review on it's performance with all my apps so not gonna upgrade the RAM now as Ryzen needs DDR4 and my current setup used DDR3. He  did wonder if TG4 is a RAM killer due to the mysterious condition of the RAM we tested as Good turning out Bad>
Anyone think there's merit in that query?
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 11, 2017, 06:15:09 PM
Do you know what brand the RAM is? Some brands are more prone to failure than others. Also if he's supplying you with potential engineer samples, perhaps he's using some "spare" RAM, engineering sample, second-hand, whatever, which would be more likely to fail as well. Bottom line is unless you know it's new, out-of-the-packaging and from a reputable brand (of which there are many), I would sooner suspect the source of the RAM than the use of it.

Generally speaking there's no way Terragen - or any app - can be a "RAM killer". I was in the IT industry for 15 years, hardware should almost never fail due to software issues. Even maximum CPU usage for days on end should be tolerated by a properly cooled CPU. Total RAM usage (100% usage) should not cause any problems for RAM either.

The only way hardware failure could normally be influenced by software is if the hardware is not as well cooled/ventilated as it should be for the stress being put on it. Terragen does use a lot of CPU and RAM, so it's possible that if your RAM got hot due a nearby hot CPU and inadequate cooling of one or both, then it may have caused some damage, but clearly the issue is not that Terragen is causing damage, but rather Terragen is using the hardware resources of your computer to their maximum capability and the hardware is not adequately configured for that use.

It's sort of like if you have a 500hp engine in a car, but the crank shaft can only handle 100lb-ft of torque and so if you apply maximum throttle, you break the crank shaft. Did you pressing on the gas pedal break the crank shaft? Technically yes, but it's because the car was badly designed (or not designed for a 500hp engine, at least). Same thing with a computer. You can build a computer that works OK under light loads, say it's for use in a school and they only need to do web browsing and Microsoft Office. That's fine. But if you try to use the same computer to do heavy rendering it might run into problems if it doesn't have a good CPU cooler and good ventilation. Laptops are a good example of this. Doing 24/7 rendering on a laptop is generally a bad idea because their cooling systems are designed for compactness, portability, and quiet, not maximum cooling (I know that several people here on the forums do rendering on laptops, so it's possible, just not ideal).

I want to stress however that, even in the case of inadequate cooling, hardware failure should be a rarity. All modern CPUs and motherboards have overheating protection where they'll just shut down before damage is caused if they're stressed too much.

Having said all that, I really hope you do get a Ryzen CPU, that'd be awesome!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: bobbystahr on March 11, 2017, 06:43:08 PM
Thanks for that Oshyan, I said I didn't think that was possible at the time. The RAM is VengenceLP DDR3  1600Mhz, 2 x 8G and I bought it at Memory Unlimited in town here. He's sending that back to them for replacement and I'm as I said holding off as the new less expensive mobo that I need for the Ryzen is dropping in price in April (from a reliable source) He says there's gonna be one at around $100.00 that will be good. It's a really good thing my Mom taught me patience first as otherwise I'd be a basket case of anger...no point gettin' mad about the uncontrollable which is what this seems to be.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on March 11, 2017, 06:54:45 PM
I assume that's the Corsair Vengence. Corsair is definitely a reputable manufacturer, so shouldn't be an issue there, inherently. But every manufacturer has a few products that go bad occasionally. Maybe you just got unlucky.

I admire your patience! Hopefully it will pay off with a Ryzen at the end. That would really put a big boost in your Terragen game!

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: bobbystahr on March 11, 2017, 07:03:56 PM
Yeah I though as much re: the RAM and it's basically a corsair system,case and all. Huge but lots of airflow and gigantic multispeed fans so I'm guessing we've been unbelievably unlucky with the RAM issue..he's doing his best but was all tied up with the Ryzen launch.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on September 18, 2018, 09:06:51 PM
... Oh, damn. I just discovered that apparently Naples is going to be base clocked at 1.4Ghz per core!

Looks like the 32-core AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2990X will be clocked at 4.0 GHz.

https://wccftech.com/amd-ryzen-threadripper-2990x-32-core-64-thread-cpu-specs-performance-overclock-leak/
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on September 19, 2018, 10:36:15 PM
Is the 2990X different than the 2990WX? The WX has a 3.0Ghz base clock, 4.2 max boost, but doubtful on all cores.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on September 20, 2018, 01:07:46 AM
Is the 2990X different than the 2990WX? The WX has a 3.0Ghz base clock, 4.2 max boost, but doubtful on all cores.

There are lots of references to both but all I could find is this: "AMD has always referred to the flagship as the 2990X, the added W to the 2990X and 2970X are peculiar. A theory floating around is that the W could stand for a water cooled version of the same chip, but thatís just speculation."
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: WASasquatch on September 20, 2018, 03:42:03 AM
... but doubtful on all cores.

- Oshyan

Gosh I wish!

I have to say though I'm not sure boost even works on all cores on any AMD. When boost two of my cores see 4ghz while #0 and #2 will see max 4.2ghz.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on September 23, 2018, 10:19:04 PM
Boost-all-cores does work in the right circumstances (temp envelope) on newer CPUs (Ryzen and Ryzen 2) as far as I've heard. Older AMDs, no.

Pablo, it wouldn't make sense for the W to refer to water cooled since AMD doesn't ship water cooling setups with any of its CPUs nor have any specific parts spec'd for that.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on September 24, 2018, 04:23:21 PM
Pablo, it wouldn't make sense for the W to refer to water cooled since AMD doesn't ship water cooling setups with any of its CPUs nor have any specific parts spec'd for that.

Yeah. That's what I've read. And its a good thing. I don't think water is a good thing to pipe through electronics. A passive freon-based cooler would be much better but I'm sure the EPA has something to say about that. I've seen a YouTube video of what looks like a Peltier Cooler. The down side is that more heat has to be removed than just that produced by the processor because the system is not 100% efficient.
Title: AMD Ryzen 2990WX now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on September 25, 2018, 11:55:42 AM
Now we know what they cost (2950X and 2990WX):

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Ryzen-Threadripper-Processor-YD295XA8AFWOF/dp/B07GFN6CVF/ref
https://www.amazon.com/AMD-Threadripper-2990WX-Processor-YD299XAZAFWOF/dp/B07G25SD1P/ref

I don't think there is a 2990X. I read another article that said that the -X is targeted at gamers and... "the two new WX models are geared toward intense multitasking workloads, 3D rendering, media encoding, and cinema mastering. That makes them attractive to software developers, video/audio engineers, and content creators."

The processor doesn't include a stock cooler. Cooler Master's "Wraith Ripper" is an air-cooled solution and specifically designed for the TR4 socket and will have an MSRP of $119.99. It won't be available until next month. I could do without the LED lighting which you won't see anyway unless you have a transparent panel on your enclosure. I guess its one of those gamer-isms.

https://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master-MAM-D7PN-DWRPS-T1-Wraith-Ripper/dp/B07H25DZ3M/ref

I read that half of the cores (two of the four dies) of the 2990WX are not directly connected to memory and I don't know what the ramifications are for that. With the 2950X, all cores get direct memory access at half the cost (and half the cores).
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: bobbystahr on September 25, 2018, 02:44:58 PM
Well based on those cpu prices, the cooler and new RAM, tis but a dream for me.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on September 25, 2018, 03:01:38 PM
This article is telling. Sounds like the 2950X is the high-end way to go. The article indicates that your power budget is fully loaded when half the cores of the 2990WX are running near 4GHz and the other half are idle. And in single-threaded performance, the 2950X has beaten the 2990WX, presumably because the base clock frequencies of the 2990WX are lower for power budget reasons. And if you are using the cores that are not directly connected to memory, then they will have added latency.

https://www.anandtech.com/show/13124/the-amd-threadripper-2990wx-and-2950x-review/15

I think I will budget next year for a 2950X. It should almost double the performance of my render farm and will give me a better single-threaded workstation.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: WASasquatch on September 25, 2018, 06:42:59 PM
Really wish I could get one. Haha. One day, when it's a decade out of date. :P
Title: Estimate for a 32GB 2950X
Post by: PabloMack on October 03, 2018, 01:50:46 AM
I did an estimate for a 2950X system with 32GB of 3000Mhz DDR4. I cheaped out on a passively cooled graphics card. It comes in at just over $2K

CORSAIR CARBIDE SPEC-02 Mid-Tower Gaming Case, Red LED Fan_________________________________________________________________$59.99
EVGA 750 N1, 750W, 2 Year Warranty, Power Supply 100-N1-0750-L1______________________________________________________________$50.99
OEM Windows 10 Home, 64-Bit, 1-Pack, DVD__________________________________________________________________________________$98.99
AMD Ryzen Threadripper 2950X Processor (YD295XA8AFWOF)____________________________________________________________________$899.99
CORSAIR VENGEANCE LED 32GB (4x8GB) DDR4 3000MHz C15 Desktop Memory - White LED_____________________________________________$307.99
GIGABYTE X399 Designare EX Motherboard___________________________________________________________________________________$369.99
ARCTIC Freezer 33 TR - Tower CPU Cooler AMD Ryzen, Threadripper, sTR4 I Silent 3-Phase-Motor Wide Range Regulation 200 to 1800 RPM - Red____$38.34
ZOTAC GeForce GT 710 2GB DDR3 PCI-E2.0 DL-DVI VGA HDMI Passive Cooled Single Slot Low Profile Graphics Card (ZT-71302-20L)_______________$47.54

Subtotal (8 items):  $1,875.31
Sales Tax______$154.71
Order total:    $2,030.02

[Edit]: I just got a reply from a customer who researched the fit and he said that the MB, CPU and cooler should all fit into the Spec02 case.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Dune on October 03, 2018, 06:01:40 AM
Good to see this. If I need another machine one of these days.... Thanks Pablo.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: bobbystahr on October 03, 2018, 05:30:44 PM
now all I need is 2 grand american heh heh...sounds like an awesome setup
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on November 21, 2018, 06:07:48 PM
Seeing that the 2950X costs $300 (and %50) more than the 1950X at only 5% performance improvement, I am seriously considering the 1950X instead.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: WASasquatch on November 21, 2018, 06:37:04 PM
I was just messing around and priced this out. Not bad really.

This build already dropped 100$ dollars in a night. It was 750 last night.

https://pcpartpicker.com/user/WASasquatch/saved/PcKdXL
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on November 27, 2018, 10:45:48 PM
I'm reading rumors that AMD is planning to release 16-core/32-thread in the Ryzen AM4-socket CPU form-factor in 2019 based on 7nm. These will be significantly cheaper than Threadripper because the socket is smaller and the motherboards are less than half the price. This is presumable because more signals requires the boards to be made with more layers. Of course the memory bandwidth of AM4 is only half that of TR4 because of the number of parallel lanes to memory. Threadripper models will also double to 32-cores/64 threads and possibly 64-cores/128 threads for their WX models. I think announcements will be made in January at CES 2019. Also, rumor has it that AMD is already working on their 3nm process.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Hetzen on November 27, 2018, 11:03:15 PM
My experience with i9 workstations and the Ryzen, is that the Intel chip is way better with lower thread processes. Not to say it's a good farm machine, but workstation performance is, well a factor of + x4 performance. I've spent a week on a AMD machine, and the Intel pissed all over it when we ran out of composition render time and had to swap to the i9. That was last year so things may have improved since then.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Oshyan on November 28, 2018, 09:26:38 PM
i9 is a lot more comparable to Threadripper than Ryzen. If you were really testing Ryzen against i9 it's kind of like testing i9 against i7. That being said it's true that Ryzen has similar or in some cases higher low-thread-count clock speed (i.e. boost speed) vs Threadripper, so if it's low-thread workloads you're talking about the results might hold.

AMD is getting their clock speed and IPC up in Zen 2 (AKA Zen+, Zen being the architecture behind Ryzen and Threadripper). That's coming early 2019, so worth a revisit then perhaps.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: Hetzen on November 28, 2018, 10:13:19 PM
My mistake. I did mean Threadripper not Ryzen.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: WASasquatch on November 29, 2018, 12:01:10 AM
Well, Threadripper is Ryzen. It's literally a type of Ryzen. The flagship workstation/gaming processor. The name of Threadripper is Ryzen Threadripper.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: PabloMack on November 29, 2018, 12:34:49 AM
WAS, I think you're right. But some people seem to be calling the new generation processors that run in socket AM4 "Ryzen' which are Ryzen 3,5,7 while they call the ones that run in socket TR4 just "Threadripper". The architecture technologies are called Zen, Zen+, Zen2 etc.  I know it is confusing and a lot of the articles don't seem to agree on the terminology.
Title: Re: AMD Ryzen now shipping
Post by: WASasquatch on November 29, 2018, 05:33:49 PM
I just go by AMDs own specifications not hearsay myself haha. The SP3r2 is their new workstation standard for AMD, also called TR4.