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General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: rcallicotte on September 18, 2007, 12:32:44 PM

Title: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: rcallicotte on September 18, 2007, 12:32:44 PM
Anyone know the scoop on this? http://www.softpedia.com/get/Programming/Components-Libraries/Alky-DirectX-Compatibility-Libraries.shtml

If this isn't the only thing available, I wonder what might be available.
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 18, 2007, 12:37:24 PM
it is not official.....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: zionner on September 18, 2007, 04:56:46 PM
hmm..this is really quite interesting...I dont need it cause i got vista with my PC...but It would be intresting to see how much games wuold benifit from using it...

I personally wouldnt try it..but if someone here dose...tell me what you think!
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on September 19, 2007, 03:23:07 PM
It's highly unclear whether this is trying to implement DX10 in software (as it seems, thus not taking advantage of DX10 graphics cards and so essentially useless) or whether it will actually work like DX9 but support DX10. If the latter it would be great, but it's still a "preview" and I have doubts it will really make it in the end. Even if it does MS may shut it down. :p

- Oshyan
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: rcallicotte on September 20, 2007, 09:00:37 AM
@Oshyan - I've wondered the same about what MS might do.  XP is so much more like it's supposed to be for an OS, in my observations, and I'd really like to use DirectX 10.    :P
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 01:21:00 PM
Likewise Calico, I'm not a fan of Vista. Nonetheless I did just upgrade to Home Premium x64 on my new quad core system specifically for DX10 games (Crysis!) and for Vista testing of TG2. *sigh*

- Oshyan
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:04:37 PM
QUAD CORE!!!!....DAMN!!!!!

is TG2 going to be optimized for quad core beasts???
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:04:37 PM
QUAD CORE!!!!....DAMN!!!!!

is TG2 going to be optimized for quad core beasts???
Yes, yes it is. I've also got 8GB of RAM and an 8800GTS superclocked. ;D

- Oshyan
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:41:28 PM
thats a POWER HUNGRY MONSTER!!!

although, is it wise to get dx10 video card since it is only at testing stage.....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Will on September 20, 2007, 04:29:54 PM
only a 8800gtx? my 12000GXXXT will beat that.

naw I only got a 8800gts :)
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: reck on September 20, 2007, 05:12:36 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 03:27:59 PM


Yes, yes it is. I've also got 8GB of RAM .....
- Oshyan

8GB.....I see your making the best use of your 64bit OS.  ;D




Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:04:37 PM

although, is it wise to get dx10 video card since it is only at testing stage.....

DX10 has gone way past the testing stage, in fact DX10.1 is out soon, if not already. We can also expect the next round of DX10 cards out earlyish next year as well.


Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 05:15:19 PM
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:41:28 PM
thats a POWER HUNGRY MONSTER!!!

although, is it wise to get dx10 video card since it is only at testing stage.....
It's most certainly not in testing phase, at least not for Vista. There are several games already released (Bioshock and Lost Planet: Extreme Condition) that support it and many more coming soon (Call of Duty 4, Crysis, etc.). See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support
http://www.novatek.com.au/news/confirmed-dx-10-games.html
http://www.tweak3d.net/joomla/news/pc-gaming/directx-10-games

- Oshyan
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 11:27:42 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 05:15:19 PM
It's most certainly not in testing phase, at least not for Vista. There are several games already released (Bioshock and Lost Planet: Extreme Condition) that support it and many more coming soon (Call of Duty 4, Crysis, etc.). See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support
http://www.novatek.com.au/news/confirmed-dx-10-games.html
http://www.tweak3d.net/joomla/news/pc-gaming/directx-10-games

- Oshyan

wow....I am slow in this area.....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Ironshirt on September 21, 2007, 02:43:57 AM
The 'funny' thing is, that Microsoft supports Vista Home (previously called Longface eh Longhorn  ;) ) for only 5 years....
But the support period of Windows XP has been extended up to the year 2014 (round about).
I think Microsoft knows exactly which operating system is the better one. And perhaps DirextX10 will be released offically by Microsoft after enough Vista licenses have been sold... who knows....

Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 21, 2007, 02:50:12 AM
Quote from: Ironshirt on September 21, 2007, 02:43:57 AM
The 'funny' thing is, that Microsoft supports Vista Home (previously called Longface eh Longhorn  ;) ) for only 5 years....
But the support period of Windows XP has been extended up to the year 2014 (round about).
I think Microsoft knows exactly which operating system is the better one. And perhaps DirextX10 will be released offically by Microsoft after enough Vista licenses have been sold... who knows....



I think the reason they extended the support of xp is because the gap between vista and xp (almost 5 years) and there are still copies of xp being sold because the fact that vista is relatively new and its gonna take time to gain peoples trust in using new OS.....here is something from wikipedia...."Windows XP was first released on October 25, 2001, and over 400 million copies were in use in January 2006"
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: nikita on September 21, 2007, 06:08:59 AM
I don't think it's about trust.
At least home PCs don't come with xp anymore so anyone who wants to buy a new one is going to have vista no matter if he trusts it or not.
Vista could have been a good OS. But why on earth does a new windows always have to use twice as much ram as and cpu compared to it's predecessor?

(You'd think universities are clever and wait.. not over here, they replaced xp with vista on some P4s. Fortunately, there are unix pcs or thin clients as an alternative.)
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Ironshirt on September 21, 2007, 08:33:50 AM
Microsoft needed  6 years of further development and bugfixing to create a half-decent, half-way secure OS (seen very optimistically  ;))

And now they throw everything overboard and begin to replace one disease with another (worse) one....
and the fiasco begins from scratch...

For Vista you need 64Bit and 4GB Ram just to make the new 3D Desktop environment run fluently...

Have a look at linux in combination with beryl. you may notice that you need half of the hardware power for that and beryl even looks better...

I'm really lookin forward to a TG2 linux version - TG2 is the only reason why I'm using XP any more...
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on September 21, 2007, 07:49:29 PM
Does nobody remember how much slower OS X was with its own new flashy UI? It's not a uniquely Microsoft disease. It's the disease of thinking (and unfortunately perhaps they're right) that it's flashy visuals and a shiny candy look that sells an OS, not baseline features, performance and stability. I would guess that at least 50% of the reason for Vista's higher system requirements comes down to visual or other aesthetic "enhancements", not new features. Personally I was happiest with Win2k's clean look and solid performance. In XP I usually just switch to the 2K-like theme. With Vista you actually lose some capability doing that I believe.

Anyway I'm not saying you need to take up lots of resources just to have a nice-looking desktop. But the major players still seem to be caught in doing that, including Apple. I hear OS X can still be laggy for certain visual effects except on the best of new machines. Perhaps we just don't know all that's involved in doing that level of visuals across the whole OS. But I for one would much rather see time and resources put into other areas. We'd have more feature-full, more stable, better overall OS's that ran faster with less resources if there was less emphasis on visuals, fancy transition effects, etc.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 21, 2007, 07:56:51 PM
agree with Oshyan.....I personally like xp vsuals better than vista since vista throws in transparency and that just eats away you memory!....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 23, 2007, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Yes, yes it is. I've also got 8GB of RAM and an 8800GTS superclocked. ;D

- Oshyan

Hey Oshyan....I was wondering, for DX10 video cards.....do I need a DX10 compatible mobo or there is no such thing as dx10 compitable mobo...right now I have this mobo

http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2637
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: moodflow on September 25, 2007, 12:12:08 PM
Just say NO to Vista and YES to DX10 on XP.
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on September 25, 2007, 04:18:22 PM
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 23, 2007, 10:53:15 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Yes, yes it is. I've also got 8GB of RAM and an 8800GTS superclocked. ;D

- Oshyan

Hey Oshyan....I was wondering, for DX10 video cards.....do I need a DX10 compatible mobo or there is no such thing as dx10 compitable mobo...right now I have this mobo

http://www.giga-byte.com/Products/Motherboard/Products_Spec.aspx?ProductID=2637
You don't need a DX10 motherboard (unless your graphics chipset is onboard, which you wouldn't want anyway). Any board that can fit a DX10 graphics card (currently PCI Express only, I'm fairly sure) will work.

Incidentally I forgot to mention that Dell and some other manufacturers *are* still selling XP as an option. There is also some talk of the EU requiring PC manufacturers to allow *no* OS options from system builders.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 25, 2007, 07:00:54 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 25, 2007, 04:18:22 PM

Incidentally I forgot to mention that Dell and some other manufacturers *are* still selling XP as an option. There is also some talk of the EU requiring PC manufacturers to allow *no* OS options from system builders.

- Oshyan

Alienware is the one company I have seen so far that offers "No OS preinstalled" options but they are expensive as hell.....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 25, 2007, 10:43:01 PM
and since we are on topic of quadcores and DX10...I was wondering if there are any official dates of releasing laptops with quadcores and DX10 videocards equipped??
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: rcallicotte on September 26, 2007, 09:26:30 AM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 25, 2007, 04:18:22 PM
There is also some talk of the EU requiring PC manufacturers to allow *no* OS options from system builders.

- Oshyan

Go Europe!  This is what we've needed for decades...genuine competition.  And just as Linus is coming out with a new version of Linux.  People have only dreamed about this being a possibility in America and this could be the change the IT industry needs. 
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: reck on September 28, 2007, 08:28:12 AM
Quote from: Ironshirt on September 21, 2007, 08:33:50 AM

For Vista you need 64Bit and 4GB Ram just to make the new 3D Desktop environment run fluently...


I've got an old(ish) Athlon 64 2Ghz with 2GB of RAM running Vista32 very smoothly out the box. Same with my system at home which is 2GB Vista 32bit OS. It sounds you may have had other problems on a machine and were led to believe it was a performace problem with Vista. Where did you get the 64bit 4gb figures from?

The only time i've seen the 3D environment stutter on Vista, is on systems with <1GB of RAM.

I still think Vista needs some performance tweaks though, for instance it seems to take to long switching between user accounts. From what i've read SP1 is supposed to improve this side of Vista allegedly.

Quotevista throws in transparency and that just eats away you memory!....

I'm not sure about this but doesn't the new 3d environment chuck this out to the GFX card to handle instead of the actual system? If so it might be using the memory on your gfx card and not actually that much system memory.
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 28, 2007, 11:27:19 AM
Quote from: reck on September 28, 2007, 08:28:12 AM
I'm not sure about this but doesn't the new 3d environment through this out to the GFX card to handle instead of the actual system? If so it might be using the memory on your gfx card and not actually that much system memory.

you may be right.....I just bought this game "World in Conflict"........awesome game and I am trying to play it but every 5 mins into the game, I get the error saying "There is not enough memory to run this application"

I have following:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
4GB of DDR2 (800 MHz) Ram
BFG 7900 Ultra OC (512 MB)
Vista 32-bit (Animated desktop disabled, Transparency enabled)
2 exhaust and 1 intake fan

I am not sure what causing this problem.....I am gonna try to connect to customer service and see what they have to say!
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: reck on September 28, 2007, 04:11:56 PM
Thats strange, it's got to be some bug with World in Conflict. I know that game needs a beefy system but you should have no problems playing it with that CPU and amount of memory, no idea about gfx cards though.

I'd try posting in some of the game forums as well, it's possible someone else has ran into this problem as well.

BTW a bit OT but how is that game? I've read it's more of a multiplayer RTS then a single player one. I'm playing company of heroes atm and should get the new expansion tomorrow, Opposing force.
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 28, 2007, 05:26:37 PM
my brother just got COH:OP and its awesome....I am gonna start playing it since WIC isnt working and I have played demo and its awesome specially the nuke blast and the smokes that rise due to explosions and I also have Ageia physics card and it looks even better with card.....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Saurav on September 28, 2007, 06:44:35 PM
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 28, 2007, 11:27:19 AM

you may be right.....I just bought this game "World in Conflict"........awesome game and I am trying to play it but every 5 mins into the game, I get the error saying "There is not enough memory to run this application"

I have following:

Intel Core 2 Duo E6600
4GB of DDR2 (800 MHz) Ram
BFG 7900 Ultra OC (512 MB)
Vista 32-bit (Animated desktop disabled, Transparency enabled)
2 exhaust and 1 intake fan

I am not sure what causing this problem.....I am gonna try to connect to customer service and see what they have to say!

You may need the OOM (out of memory fix) for vista with that game, I was having similar issues with Flight SImulator X but this update from Microsoft seems to have fixed that. I also have 4GB of RAM but I run Vista64.

You can read the details and download the fix from Microsoft  knowledge base.

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/940105
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: dhavalmistry on September 28, 2007, 07:36:34 PM
thanx for the update but it still gives me error saying that there is not enough memory to run the application....
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Tangled-Universe on December 10, 2007, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:04:37 PM
QUAD CORE!!!!....DAMN!!!!!

is TG2 going to be optimized for quad core beasts???
Yes, yes it is. I've also got 8GB of RAM and an 8800GTS superclocked. ;D

- Oshyan

Hi Oshyan,

I'm about to buy a similar system to yours, but I ran into the following "problem".
I also wanted to add 8 GB RAM to my P5K-mainboard but I read you can't add 8GB of DDR2-800Mhz memory but it was only possible to have 8GB of DDR2-667Mhz memory.
How's your setup? Is this correct?

Regards, Martin
Title: Re: DirectX 10 for Windows XP
Post by: Oshyan on December 11, 2007, 05:28:52 PM
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on December 10, 2007, 04:11:32 PM
Quote from: Oshyan on September 20, 2007, 03:27:59 PM
Quote from: dhavalmistry on September 20, 2007, 03:04:37 PM
QUAD CORE!!!!....DAMN!!!!!

is TG2 going to be optimized for quad core beasts???
Yes, yes it is. I've also got 8GB of RAM and an 8800GTS superclocked. ;D

- Oshyan

Hi Oshyan,

I'm about to buy a similar system to yours, but I ran into the following "problem".
I also wanted to add 8 GB RAM to my P5K-mainboard but I read you can't add 8GB of DDR2-800Mhz memory but it was only possible to have 8GB of DDR2-667Mhz memory.
How's your setup? Is this correct?

Regards, Martin
It depends on the capabilities of your motherboard which comes from the chipset it uses. I am fairly sure mine is able to run at full 800Mhz with all 8GB. However I also know that the performance difference with 667 vs. 800Mhz *in practice* is not terribly significant and the additional RAM is well worth it for seriously demanding scenes or running multiple demanding applications.

- Oshyan