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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 07:53:25 AM

Title: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 07:53:25 AM
I would like to create a large cloud with a mountain-type form. Such that gradually rises with a visible "slope" forming at the side:

[attach=1]

Will using an SSS mask with "bevel" edge be enough?
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: Dune on April 06, 2018, 09:20:48 AM
My first idea was to use a distribution shader with altitude gradient and tilt it.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 06, 2018, 09:21:22 AM
I would like to create a large cloud with a mountain-type form. Such that gradually rises with a visible "slope" forming at the side:

(Attachment Link)

Will using an SSS mask with "bevel" edge be enough?


Yes, you'll want to mask your cloud density, and pipe it into your density modulator. You'll want to play with your coverage, density, fallout etc for exacting results.

Took a break from my project to make  a cone with bevel at 100 percent (this would be your gradual sloping...

PS That's on a intel computer stick. :O

PPS Both colour, AND displacement is used.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 09:44:21 AM
@ WASasquatch - Could you provide a tgd or a clip?
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 06, 2018, 10:14:26 AM
@ WASasquatch - Could you provide a tgd or a clip?

Sure thing, here you go. I adjusted the settings to be pretty dense, as you can see.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 10:52:04 AM
Thanks!

@ Dune - I tried it and plugged a distributor to the final modulator socket but it produces rather funny effects. And by funny I don't mean anything good. ;)
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 03:49:17 PM
Oh... did not expect it to be that simple. Which is good actually.

Yep, this hits the spot. But I still need to see how this method fares when the masking SSS is fractal warped...

Also, I can't really see much effect of the displacement in the SSS. Looks just about the same at first glance.


Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: Dune on April 06, 2018, 04:39:22 PM
Yes, it was just a theory, so maybe not the right way. And what if you mask a white surface shader by SSS, and add a twist and shear as child? Use that to mask cloud of course. I would (theoretically) say that the white (which is a block going up) would tilt, giving you the edged top.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 05:55:38 PM
Naaah. Just tried it - not a good way either. Sasquatch's method is good, except for the fact that a displacement is useless. The beveled SSS has to be plugged into a depth modulator to achieve best cloud slope.

However, I am thinking about yet one more thing...

Let's say, I use a whole array of SSSs (I do). I don't want to bevel-edge each one of them. Instead, how can I define a single point of reference, towards which the clouds would ascend? Hmmm... And that could be usefull for terrains as well.

EDIT: And here's a little infographic on how to achieve the effect. Note, that you can also easily warp SSS mask and successfully use it for both depth and area modifications.

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 06, 2018, 06:54:26 PM
I only used displacement in thought and only did a single render. They take some time on this little stick. Just spent all night rendering disappointment. lol

Perhaps though you can still use it's displacement in the other functions. I do notice that the depth following color is pretty sharp
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 07:00:35 PM
Just spent all night rendering disappointment. lol

Do I sense accusation? Don't even think that way! :) After all, it's your advice that makes this slope thing work. Well thought.

I just stated a fact, it's all. To be honest, the displacement in SSS seems to be generally useless... I never managed to actually make it work! Maybe it's because I need it for masks only and nothing more than that. ::)

Hm, I don't really get that bit about an Intel Stick. What is this thing?
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 06, 2018, 08:22:43 PM
Just spent all night rendering disappointment. lol

Do I sense accusation? Don't even think that way! :) After all, it's your advice that makes this slope thing work. Well thought.

I just stated a fact, it's all. To be honest, the displacement in SSS seems to be generally useless... I never managed to actually make it work! Maybe it's because I need it for masks only and nothing more than that. ::)

Oh no, I'm working on a experiment, and it takes SOOOO long. Previews of a tiny 3cmx3cm crop preview takes over an hour to render. This was happening on my desktop too, so it's my project, not all the compute stick.

I'm not sure what you mean about SSS displacement? I seem to use it regularly for mountains/canyons/cliffs/etc.

Hm, I don't really get that bit about an Intel Stick. What is this thing?[/font][/size]

It's a tiny computer on a stick that you plug into HDMI here is the spec (https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/compute-stick/stk2mv64cc.html) on the one I was given. I thought it was a first gen old one that was pretty slow so I never tried it, am pleasantly surprised. I can take it on the go in my pocket if I wanted, and it can run Terragen, granted it took some fiddling. I use one of the two cores, and I also keep the preview mainly paused as it'll crash. Also, any setting changes will result in momentary lag. But... it renders... Lol So surprised.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 06, 2018, 09:15:52 PM
Wow, this is interesting and impressive. I have never heard of a device like that! I think it can be particularly useful in some situations.

As far as the cloud is concerned - success! Just have a look at it, it's a beauty...

[attachimg=1]

Obviously though, I need to improve the light propagation at the cloud base. For some reason it turned ugly, ugly, UG-ly... I largely reduced light propagation and light propagation mix and it was probably not the best idea...
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: luvsmuzik on April 06, 2018, 09:28:41 PM
Mount Cloudnificant! :)
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: Oshyan on April 06, 2018, 10:03:46 PM
Displacement has no effect on clouds, they only deal with incoming color data. Not sure if that's what's causing some confusion here, but maybe?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 06, 2018, 10:29:42 PM
Wow, this is interesting and impressive. I have never heard of a device like that! I think it can be particularly useful in some situations.

As far as the cloud is concerned - success! Just have a look at it, it's a beauty...

(Attachment Link)

Obviously though, I need to improve the light propagation at the cloud base. For some reason it turned ugly, ugly, UG-ly... I largely reduced light propagation and light propagation mix and it was probably not the best idea...


That looks great! This sort of approach could be used for sandstorms. Especially if could add a wave like lean to it.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 07, 2018, 07:21:24 AM
You helped develop it. ;) Now I'm struggling with that flat bottom. I tried transform shader and increasing light propagation (which I don't really want overdone either...) but no luck so far.

Tilting such formation is doable, but not as straightforward. I used "twist and shear" and "transform input" for starters but it's rather tricky. Especially the latter when you use SSS mask!
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: Dune on April 07, 2018, 07:35:25 AM
Soften the base in the cloud node? Or mask by distribution shader with a gradient?
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 07, 2018, 08:06:35 AM
Soften the base in the cloud node? Or mask by distribution shader with a gradient?

I wonder if a soft altitude offset would work as well? It would push the base about, with a soft effect in theory?
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 07, 2018, 09:11:40 AM
Right... the distribution shader.

Give me a minute and in the words of Arnie S. - "I'll be back".
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 07, 2018, 09:50:28 AM
Okay, the soften base does not work. I think it is not as effective for huge cloud like this one.

Now, I'm trying to figure out if it's feasible to use PF masked distribution shader.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 07, 2018, 10:28:24 AM
So here's what I got...

[attach=1]

As you can see, the distribution shader arranged that way, does some rounding of the cloud edges. It's good as well, but you probably want to expand the cloud mask then...

However, the distribution shader does nothing to alter the look of the cloud base. It is still a featureless pancake...

In a way, I can understand that - any massive cloud like this one is bound to block a lot of light coming through.

Now, I'm not sure if I connected the nodes the way they are supposed to be to achieve the effect. So if you think it should be arranged differently, let me know.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: Dune on April 08, 2018, 05:50:02 AM
Quote
rounding of the cloud edges. It's good as well,
I thought that was what you were after. Changing the evenness of the bottom grey should be possible by depth modulator.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 08, 2018, 07:17:35 AM
I thought that was what you were after.

Well, I guess it was a goal too. I think I will leave it as it is, because with other clouds and effects applied, the flat bottom problem will dissolve into irrelevance. Meanwhile, I also found a simple way on how to make rain streaks. The size of power fractal, light propagation and color of the fake rain is a big question though...

[attach=1]
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 08, 2018, 08:17:42 AM
I thought that was what you were after.

Well, I guess it was a goal too. I think I will leave it as it is, because with other clouds and effects applied, the flat bottom problem will dissolve into irrelevance. Meanwhile, I also found a simple way on how to make rain streaks. The size of power fractal, light propagation and color of the fake rain is a big question though...

(Attachment Link)

I was just playing with this earlier giving a little lean to a tornado cloud. Still want to add detail to the actual tornado column itself but can't figure it out :(
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 08, 2018, 07:40:53 PM
I was just playing with this earlier giving a little lean to a tornado cloud. Still want to add detail to the actual tornado column itself but can't figure it out :(

I remember I could nicely alter the cloud bottoms with a wavy pattern by passing PF through transform shader - reducing x and z parameters to about 0.4 - 0.6. This however works for a global cloud surface only. If you have your clouds masked by SSS, the location will get transformed too... ::)

You know, I think the easiest way to do it, would be to shove a few metaclouds underneath your tornado column. Metaclouds are great because they actually take on all shadows and stuff after layers above them. So maybe this? I know it's a bit "dirty" solution but you won't believe how useful it can sometimes be!
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 08, 2018, 09:03:28 PM
I was just playing with this earlier giving a little lean to a tornado cloud. Still want to add detail to the actual tornado column itself but can't figure it out :(

I remember I could nicely alter the cloud bottoms with a wavy pattern by passing PF through transform shader - reducing x and z parameters to about 0.4 - 0.6. This however works for a global cloud surface only. If you have your clouds masked by SSS, the location will get transformed too... ::)

You know, I think the easiest way to do it, would be to shove a few metaclouds underneath your tornado column. Metaclouds are great because they actually take on all shadows and stuff after layers above them. So maybe this? I know it's a bit "dirty" solution but you won't believe how useful it can sometimes be!


Still haven't really looked into this whole "metacloud" thing, or what exactly it is. :P I was thinking that same thing though, actually, masking in several cloud forms at different radius's with the vortex effect to try and get the "swirl" bands in. I saw someone else use functions to create an actual corkscrew swirl, though it was a bit basic, but that could be refined too.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: luvsmuzik on April 08, 2018, 09:37:32 PM
There was a topic about "ring clouds" that might be interesting for either of you also.
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: WASasquatch on April 08, 2018, 09:59:03 PM
There was a topic about "ring clouds" that might be interesting for either of you also.

Thanks luvsmuzik! For reference (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,699.msg5888.html#msg5888).
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: luvsmuzik on April 08, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
There was a topic about "ring clouds" that might be interesting for either of you also.

Thanks luvsmuzik! For reference (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,699.msg5888.html#msg5888).

I was trying to hide it....hahaha  ;D   
Title: Re: Rising cloud
Post by: N-drju on April 09, 2018, 08:32:12 PM
I was trying to hide it....hahaha  ;D

I have a very foggy understanding why would you do that. :P