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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: rolland1013 on October 03, 2018, 07:03:29 PM

Title: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on October 03, 2018, 07:03:29 PM
Is there a general feature request discussion on the forum?  If not I'd like to start one.  Here's my wishes for future versions of Terragen:

1. An interactive sculpt tool for shaping terrain.
2. Erosion controls - similar to World Machine.
3. FBX and/or Alembic import ability.
4. Import ROTATION offset for importing animated cameras.
5. V-Ray shader support.
6. Realistic water animation
7. More water types; i.e. ocean, lake, stream, river, rapids, waterfall, etc.

Thanks
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on October 03, 2018, 07:17:19 PM
I remembered another one, I think it would be great if you could sculpt the shape and size of clouds.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Oshyan on October 04, 2018, 12:33:04 AM
Yep, lots of good ideas here. Many already suggested, which we keep in a private issue tracker. We're listening and will implement as much as we can over time. I can tell you we are almost certainly never going to support Vray shaders though. Other than that it's all probably fair game.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: René on October 04, 2018, 08:04:33 AM
Sculpting is at the top of my list too.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on October 04, 2018, 11:53:39 AM
Quote
Erosion controls - similar to World Machine.

Danniis Classic Erosion plugin is great - check it out if you haven't already.

Quote
FBX and/or Alembic import ability.

Definitely Alembic - not so much FBX

and Deep Exr, the missing link for seamless compositing with other renderers!

Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on October 04, 2018, 04:32:03 PM
I know I mentioned this somewhere else, but image planes!!!
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: SILENCER on October 04, 2018, 06:05:01 PM
Alembic/MDD, whatever it takes to get displacement caches into Terragen. Think wind displacement for SpeedTree. Complete with instancing and offset capability.

Multiple objects in single population, randomizing their distribution


VDB in/out (I know Boss Fairclough is working on this)

Graph Editor could use an upgrade. It's kind of painful in there.

Are there any render functions that could be offloaded to the GPU?

Be nice to have render rez previews rendered out of the RTP for shot placeholders in the edit.

Alpha channels are sometimes not pure white. Comp gets fussy about that.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Yanik on October 04, 2018, 07:41:00 PM

My personal opinion regarding Terragen: I find Terragen artist unfriendly. You often repeat yourself, can quickly create a big spaghetti mess and must have deep technical knowledge.
You need more developers. The pace of development is quite slow. You're lucky E-on software does such a poor job, but nowadays I see many people switching to Clarisse from Vue. These could have been Terragen users.

I do love that VDB import/export is underway and can't wait to use it in other applications such as Clarisse.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: WASasquatch on October 04, 2018, 07:44:04 PM
I always wondered how sculpting would ever work in Terragen. I don't really see it being workable without a huuuuuuge overhaul of the preview system. I mean, think of working with just the painted shader.

In general it's addition would put the system requirements into the flagship hardware realm.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on October 04, 2018, 07:47:05 PM
add:

being able to translate the little preview window somewhere other than the world origin...
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: ajcgi on October 05, 2018, 01:44:38 PM
add:

being able to translate the little preview window somewhere other than the world origin...

That is a fair point. This is something I've never requested yet bitched about to colleagues regularly.

That being said, you say it's artist unfriendly... this year has been my introduction to Houdini. You go learn that now without swearing. Go on. Off you pop.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Tangled-Universe on October 05, 2018, 02:15:09 PM

Load a heightfield and specify the dimensions in meters. Now it guesses the size by looking at the pixel resolution. Not sure if this is already possible.


This is likely an error in the file itself. Heightfields in .ter format, as well as GeoTIFF .img files contain metadata with heightfield dimensions.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Yanik on October 05, 2018, 04:38:23 PM
That being said, you say it's artist unfriendly... this year has been my introduction to Houdini. You go learn that now without swearing. Go on. Off you pop.

I also have been learning and using Houdini the past year and Houdini gives you many ways to debug your scene. Houdini's network view is a joy to use compared to other node based applications. If you feel it being too complex I highly recommend you to learn some basic development skills to understand how data is stored and how it flows.
That said I agree with it not being artist friendly.

I don't think it's fair to compare a complex application that is mostly TD/VFX oriented with a simple terrain design tool. In my feature request list I posted a few ideas on how to make Terragen easier to use. Value remapping is a very important feature which is used in many terrain design tools. It allows you to artistically remap values and allows you to create new shapes quite easily.

Below you can see some simple examples on 2 basic noises that got remapped with a bezier curve editor:
(https://imgur.com/ME2UDPS.jpg)
(https://imgur.com/t0iv6uN.jpg)

Now have fun doing the same thing with blue nodes.

"Go on. Off you pop."

This is likely an error in the file itself. Heightfields in .ter format, as well as GeoTIFF .img files contain metadata with heightfield dimensions.

I still think size information in files that don't follow the metadata standard should not be derived from the resolution. Let the user decide what the size is. World Creator currently has some issues exporting out large files with many file types and because of that I have to use PNG16.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on October 06, 2018, 04:23:47 PM
Scale maps:  Controlling the scale of .obj populations with a painted shader or image map.  An even better version of this would allow you to also use the min-max scale function within the population's parameters.  So your populations would still have a random scale, but also would allow you to control areas of smaller and larger scaled objects within the same population.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Matt on October 07, 2018, 02:10:34 AM
I still think size information in files that don't follow the metadata standard should not be derived from the resolution. Let the user decide what the size is. World Creator currently has some issues exporting out large files with many file types and because of that I have to use PNG16.

You can resize the heightfield with a Heightfield Resize operator, but we should probably duplicate that function on the heightfield load itself.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Matt on October 07, 2018, 02:16:44 AM
Scale maps:  Controlling the scale of .obj populations with a painted shader or image map.  An even better version of this would allow you to also use the min-max scale function within the population's parameters.  So your populations would still have a random scale, but also would allow you to control areas of smaller and larger scaled objects within the same population.

This is in our 2018 Plan (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24058.0.html), but might slip to early 2019. The same for rotation control.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on October 09, 2018, 10:56:57 PM
EXCELLENT!! 
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: WASasquatch on October 09, 2018, 11:05:17 PM
Been anticipating that scale modulator. Smaller populations on slopes ftw!
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on October 15, 2018, 07:55:35 PM
another thought (they keep coming :-) )

a dedicated color adjust node (or addition to the existing) with RGB controls

I know you can put something together with the Build HSV node but often times you just want to subtract a bit of red out of a stack of PFs for example...
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Tangled-Universe on October 15, 2018, 09:47:57 PM
another thought (they keep coming :-) )

a dedicated color adjust node (or addition to the existing) with RGB controls

I know you can put something together with the Build HSV node but often times you just want to subtract a bit of red out of a stack of PFs for example...

You can do this with an "adjust saturation colour" node or multiply it with another colour, although that may cause some loss in brightness I suppose.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on October 17, 2018, 09:45:27 PM
I made one myself and it works ok:- just seems strange there isn't a built-in node that can do this kind of color correction
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on November 02, 2018, 04:03:50 PM
one more (maybe not  :) )

add "clamp black" and "clamp white" to blue nodes like add, subtract, multiply scalars etc. I know a separate node can be added (does adding lots of blue nodes add to calculation time?) but with lots of math blue node will help to clean up the node graph
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: WASasquatch on November 02, 2018, 10:28:21 PM
I made one myself and it works ok:- just seems strange there isn't a built-in node that can do this kind of color correction
(Attachment Link)

Haven't tried RGB adjustments this way, I'm going to give it a shot, see if it works. I ended up using scalar values and just fighting with the weird scale range.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: sboerner on November 03, 2018, 02:43:11 PM
Quote
add "clamp black" and "clamp white" to blue nodes like add, subtract, multiply scalars etc. I know a separate node can be added (does adding lots of blue nodes add to calculation time?) but with lots of math blue node will help to clean up the node graph

+1

Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Hetzen on November 03, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
one more (maybe not  :) )

add "clamp black" and "clamp white" to blue nodes like add, subtract, multiply scalars etc. I know a separate node can be added (does adding lots of blue nodes add to calculation time?) but with lots of math blue node will help to clean up the node graph

What's stopping you using Clamp 0 1 or  Clamp ?
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on November 03, 2018, 04:35:24 PM
That's what I'm doing at the moment.

But I'm using a lot of masks and folding the clamps into additive, subtract (etc) blue nodes might reduce the clutter in scenes. Adding, multiplying and particularly subtracting overlaying mask nearly always results in out of range values you don't want

if I have a lot of nodes in a group they go off list like this :-)
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Hetzen on November 03, 2018, 05:48:42 PM
I see. Wouldn't something like a 'Mask Bar' be a better thing, where you have say 5 inputs, each with an internal math drop down with +,-,*,/ as options for each input, and a single output with your clamp range as an internal min and max value?
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on November 03, 2018, 05:52:41 PM
Probably not, that would suppose all those masks pipe into a single stream? I have lots of separate mask trees and the cumulative effect is many nodes.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Hetzen on November 03, 2018, 06:01:00 PM
You wouldn't need to use all inputs, it would combine at least 2 nodes into one if you were combining two inputs. When I do pop masks I'm always subtracting/adding one from another. It would be the same as your add/clamp node, just instead of two inputs you have up to five.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on November 03, 2018, 06:11:17 PM
Might be ok as an alternative - -still like the idea of clamps on the math modes though
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on January 09, 2019, 11:14:34 PM
I just thought of another one, well actually I've brought this one up before somewhere else in the forums.  But I thought here was a good place to request is again.  SHADOW MAPS.  Render layers/Render Elements/Extra Output Images would be the perfect place for this feature to live.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: sjefen on January 10, 2019, 04:56:02 PM
Would be nice to be able to make the previews in the library bigger.
Also to get email notifications when a render is done.
I also think the shaders could be reworked or have more options similar to other software's. It's not easy to get the results I want on with imported objects when it comes to the shaders


- Terje
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on January 22, 2019, 09:34:11 PM
Ok this feature request is a big one for me (aren't they all?), but I keep running into the need for this.  In Maya we use a feature called "Play Blast" to output a shaded view sequence of an animation.  It's not rendered, but it allows us a quick look at the overall shot.  This would be massively helpful in Terragen.  I've run into situations were I've rendered a TG scene with a tracked 3D camera I've gotten from PF Track (or another tracking package) only to find out that the track is off.  This just happened to me with a shot that was 453 frames at 2K. 

Niel
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on January 23, 2019, 07:56:43 PM
Quote
It's not rendered, but it allows us a quick look at the overall shot

Matt can correct me if this isn't right, but I assume Terragen has to render via a micro-polygon render to get the terrain displacement in the preview - looks like a progressive version of the main renderer capped at a certain level of detail, it's obviously not an Open GL preview that you can scrub or render quickly to a playblast.

Maybe an idea would be to add a "terrain only" mode to the render node, so the render would behave like the preview does when the Terrain tab is selected - i.e. no atmos, gi,  terrain shading etc. That would be quicker to render for a test. Would also be great when using the render node to save out a Micro exporter as that's all you need to save an obj or fbx.

Have you tried my script for Maya? -
https://www.highend3d.com/maya/script/terraman-for-maya

I use it all the time to render out animation playblasts, and using tiling for the terrain can get very detailed geo into Maya for a playblast, plus you can use Maya to add useful screen ornaments like frame numbers and camera names burnt in.

Quote
I've run into situations where I've rendered a TG scene with a tracked 3D camera I've gotten from PF Track (or another tracking package) only to find out that the track is off.

I've scripted custom camera rigs to ensure cameras get exported to Terragen quickly and accurately and use .chan data for the export.I  haven't had to deal with a tracked camera from something like PF track, but that's something I definitely want to add soon - just need to write a conversion tool to make sure the FOV, film backs etc translate correctly to Terragen.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: rolland1013 on January 30, 2019, 10:22:14 PM
Yep we use Terraman for import/export of terrain, cameras and such.  While we have gone that route of exporting TG geo into Maya for playblasting, it does add several steps to the workflow.  In tight deadline situations that can be frustrating.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on January 30, 2019, 11:16:14 PM
Quote
Yep we use Terraman for import/export of terrain, cameras and such.

Good to know!

Quote
it does add several steps to the workflow.

It does, unfortunately, if you think of anything that could improve that, let me know.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on January 31, 2019, 01:46:28 AM
Ok this feature request is a big one for me (aren't they all?), but I keep running into the need for this.  In Maya we use a feature called "Play Blast" to output a shaded view sequence of an animation.  It's not rendered, but it allows us a quick look at the overall shot.  This would be massively helpful in Terragen.  I've run into situations were I've rendered a TG scene with a tracked 3D camera I've gotten from PF Track (or another tracking package) only to find out that the track is off.  This just happened to me with a shot that was 453 frames at 2K. 

Niel

I suggested to Matt awhile back that it would be nice to be able to render out animations from the RTP (ray traced preview) by having an option to set the maximum refinement time (per frame), and then rendering out the animation. 

Maybe now that Terragen 4 has the Path tracing Render Engine as an alternative to the original, a third alternative render engine could be added as seen in the attached image.

[attachimg=1]
NOTE:  I meant "ray traced preview" not real-time preview.

Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on January 31, 2019, 06:25:11 AM
I think the problem being that the ground isn't updated in RTP.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on January 31, 2019, 02:03:29 PM
I think the problem being that the ground isn't updated in RTP.

Yes, but it still would be useful for doing cloud animations.  ;)
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS - Isn't it Time to Seed Beyond 256?
Post by: D.A. Bentley on February 01, 2019, 08:08:16 PM
Matt,

You said a long time ago:

Quote
The Power Fractal Shader only has 256 unique seeds. After that the seeds repeat. I wasn't aware of that limitation when I made the Random Seed button generate values between 0 and 65535. The Alpine Fractal Shader and Fake Stones Shader have this limitation too, and probably other shaders that use noise functions. But other nodes in Terragen might have a larger number of seeds.

But isn't it possible to leave the current seeding code in place and fix the bug to allow for the full number of seeds (65535) using a radio button option for backwards compatibility?   Anywhere there is a seed option there would be two radio buttons (One for 8-Bit, and another for 16-Bit).  For backwards compatibility the default would stay on "8-Bit/256", but by switching to "16-Bit/65535" we could explore the much greater range of seeds.  Mainly I want this for clouds and Density fractals.  Pretty Please?

Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 02, 2019, 06:09:58 AM
More seed variation would indeed be awesome. I've come across limitations too, which had to be circumvented.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: cyphyr on February 02, 2019, 07:26:03 AM
In no way am I a coder but couldn't a solution be to multiple two seeds together.
If two random seeds are generated within the 256 limit and are multiplied together that would give a total of 65536 seed possibilities.

ps: I have for a long time wanted a seed node with a corresponding input override on all nodes that have a seed value.
Actually a seed node would just be a Constant scalar (could have a randomise button on it as well), the issue is to have it input and override the random seed generated by PF's, Cloud fractals and FSS.

Very often I have MANY node networks have multiple duplicates of the same noise functions all of which have to be changed to the same new seed value. This is a slow and tedious process that a seed input on  PF's, Cloud fractals and FSS would solve.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 02, 2019, 08:44:50 AM
Seed input, brilliant idea!
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: mhaze on February 02, 2019, 09:20:11 AM
I have a wish list as long as your arm but the thing that bugs me the most is .obj input.  Many .objs I make and use have anything up to 50 part shaders.  When TG loads colour correctly but not displacements I have to manually input them.  Poseray reads the.mtl s correctly but exporting from poseray to TG makes no difference.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 02, 2019, 10:29:35 AM
50 is a lot. Can't you combine them (if they can use same texture or color of course)? Like the DAZ figures have 20+ parts, but when combined to the same texture, that can be reduced to maybe 7.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: cyphyr on February 02, 2019, 11:38:57 AM
Is the combing something you can do in Poseray?
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 02, 2019, 11:45:36 AM
Yes, Poseray has a lot more in in than you'd think. Also combining objects by selecting a number of objects that should be combined and giving it a name. I often later make extra parts for an object (say a hairpiece or shovel, as lwo or obj), and just copy the path and name in the input window whilst the original object is already open, and merge them.

With DAZ figures I always set all groups to invisible, make the ones visible to combine, merge them, until all are in new combined groups, then go to materials tab and do groups to materials. You loose original textures, but they can easily be relinked by clicking on the image window.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: DannyG on February 02, 2019, 11:57:02 AM
Yes, Poseray has a lot more in in than you'd think. Also combining objects by selecting a number of objects that should be combined and giving it a name. I often later make extra parts for an object (say a hairpiece or shovel, as lwo or obj), and just copy the path and name in the input window whilst the original object is already open, and merge them.

With DAZ figures I always set all groups to invisible, make the ones visible to combine, merge them, until all are in new combined groups, then go to materials tab and do groups to materials. You loose original textures, but they can easily be relinked by clicking on the image window.

Extremely helpful Ulco, Thks
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: cyphyr on February 02, 2019, 12:37:30 PM
Yes, Poseray has a lot more in in than you'd think. Also combining objects by selecting a number of objects that should be combined and giving it a name. I often later make extra parts for an object (say a hairpiece or shovel, as lwo or obj), and just copy the path and name in the input window whilst the original object is already open, and merge them.

With DAZ figures I always set all groups to invisible, make the ones visible to combine, merge them, until all are in new combined groups, then go to materials tab and do groups to materials. You loose original textures, but they can easily be relinked by clicking on the image window.

Brilliant. Very useful info and workflow.
Thankyou
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Hannes on February 02, 2019, 02:05:53 PM
Very informative, Ulco! Thanks a lot. I'll have to take a closer look at Poseray. So far I only used it for recalculating normals.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 02, 2019, 03:32:29 PM
I also use it to make a left-looking cow out of a right-looking cow  ;)
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: mhaze on February 02, 2019, 06:57:52 PM
Great idea to explore. Thanks, Ulco
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Matt on February 02, 2019, 10:30:42 PM
I have a wish list as long as your arm but the thing that bugs me the most is .obj input.  Many .objs I make and use have anything up to 50 part shaders.  When TG loads colour correctly but not displacements I have to manually input them.  Poseray reads the.mtl s correctly but exporting from poseray to TG makes no difference.

Can you send me an object like this? I'll get TG to import the displacement.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: bobbystahr on February 03, 2019, 01:55:24 AM
I also use it to make a left-looking cow out of a right-looking cow  ;)

yeah that works but I also do that right in TG
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 03, 2019, 06:21:38 AM
How do you do that then? I'm not aware of the possibility to mirror objects in TG.....
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: cyphyr on February 03, 2019, 08:12:19 AM
How do you do that then? I'm not aware of the possibility to mirror objects in TG.....

You can mirror by scaling -1 in which ever axis you want to mirror in.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: mhaze on February 03, 2019, 09:32:59 AM
Cheers Matt, I've sent a file to support.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Hannes on February 03, 2019, 12:16:25 PM

You can mirror by scaling -1 in which ever axis you want to mirror in.

Hah!!!! That's clever! It's always amazing if someone finds solutions for things that seemed to be impossible in TG.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 03, 2019, 01:05:52 PM
Ah, thanks Richard. Never thought of that.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: bobbystahr on February 03, 2019, 02:52:19 PM
How do you do that then? I'm not aware of the possibility to mirror objects in TG.....
Scale -X ... -Z rotates 180
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 04, 2019, 06:24:12 AM
Yes, but that just rotates. The scale=-1 is the trick, and it's good to know for pops of say cows.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: René on February 05, 2019, 08:32:28 AM
Besides sculpting, which is number 1 on my wish list, the possibility to load two TG documents at the same time. I know, you can load a second document into an older version of TG and I do that a lot, but it doesn't always work properly because some functions are missing in the older version and the nodes often become detached. This would be a real time saver, at least for me, because I often copy nodes from older iterations to the new one.

As far as sculpting is concerned: that' s already possible with the painted shader but it's so complicated that it doesn't pay off.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: icarus51 on February 05, 2019, 01:44:16 PM
Hi.


Is there a general feature request discussion on the forum?  If not I'd like to start one.  Here's my wishes for future versions of Terragen:

1. An interactive sculpt tool for shaping terrain.
2. Erosion controls - similar to World Machine.
3. FBX and/or Alembic import ability.
4. Import ROTATION offset for importing animated cameras.
5. V-Ray shader support.
6. Realistic water animation
7. More water types; i.e. ocean, lake, stream, river, rapids, waterfall, etc.

Thanks

I add these: atmospheric optics effects - rainbows, halos, iridescence, corona, sun pillars, distorsion/mirage sun and moon near horizon.
Greetings to all.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Matt on February 06, 2019, 05:46:26 AM
the possibility to load two TG documents at the same time. I know, you can load a second document into an older version of TG and I do that a lot, but it doesn't always work properly because some functions are missing in the older version and the nodes often become detached. This would be a real time saver, at least for me, because I often copy nodes from older iterations to the new one.

On Windows you can open multiple instances of the same application, and on Mac OS you can too, I believe, but there's some trick which I don't remember as I'm not really a Mac user.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: penboack on February 07, 2019, 12:25:22 AM
On MacOS the following Terminal Command may be used to open multiple instances of Terragen, in this example Terragen 4.

open -n "/Applications/Terragen 4/Terragen 4.app"
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: bobbystahr on February 07, 2019, 02:13:18 PM
Besides sculpting, which is number 1 on my wish list, the possibility to load two TG documents at the same time. I know, you can load a second document into an older version of TG and I do that a lot, but it doesn't always work properly because some functions are missing in the older version and the nodes often become detached. This would be a real time saver, at least for me, because I often copy nodes from older iterations to the new one.

As far as sculpting is concerned: that' s already possible with the painted shader but it's so complicated that it doesn't pay off.

Still, though clunky, you get amazing results..I'd like a tutorial on "Sculpting With Painted Shaders" myself....
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: sboerner on February 07, 2019, 04:28:22 PM
OK, since we're blue-skying this . . . my request would be for true object references.

When you place a tgo, the mesh is referenced but the shading network is incorporated into the tgd. Which is nice if you want to tweak the shaders in the main scene. But if you make any substantial changes to the tgo's shading group names or network, the links get broken and you have to delete and replace the tgo in the main file. Sometimes you can manually edit the shading network, but either way with multiple tgos and populations it can get a little tedious.

Referenced objects would encapsulate the mesh, shading groups, and their internal shading networks. Any changes would be made to the original tgo and would appear by explicitly refreshing the tgo or by reloading the main scene.

Perhaps a new file type could be specified ("tgr"?) so that these objects could be used alongside regular tgos.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Rich2 on February 08, 2019, 09:50:22 PM
Maybe only the oldtimer Terragen Classic users remember a feature of the Animation / Scripts feature which sadly was dropped with T2 and subsequent releases: Button 9.
 It just hasn't been the same without it...
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 09, 2019, 06:16:00 AM
 ;D
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: bobbystahr on February 09, 2019, 11:29:23 AM
ha ha ha,,,tanks fer da mem'ry
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: René on February 09, 2019, 03:19:41 PM
On Windows you can open multiple instances of the same application, and on Mac OS you can too, I believe, but there's some trick which I don't remember as I'm not really a Mac user.
I was not aware of that. I'm going to try it. Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: René on February 09, 2019, 03:26:27 PM
Still, though clunky, you get amazing results..I'd like a tutorial on "Sculpting With Painted Shaders" myself....

Here you go!
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on February 09, 2019, 08:12:33 PM
Still, though clunky, you get amazing results..I'd like a tutorial on "Sculpting With Painted Shaders" myself....

Here you go!

Painted shader 01 under the Terrain group shows a little hump, but why are the Painted Shaders 02 03 and 04 in the Shaders group just all black?  I zoom way in and can't find any sign of something painted.  I find this to be the case a lot in Terragen (no visual feedback).  Especially with Blue Nodes.

So how can an all black Painted shader being used as a mask produce the additional extruded bumps on the main terrain bump?

Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: René on February 10, 2019, 05:41:20 AM
I renamed some of the nodes so hopefully it will be a bit clearer. Once you displaced a painted shader, it may not be visible anymore. Projection is set to 3D.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on February 10, 2019, 09:18:42 AM
Thanks René!  Now I see what you are doing.  I hadn't used the Painted shader in a long time and forgot you could directly paint in the 3D viewport on the terrain, so I was looking for signs of painting in the shader preview pop-up window.  It is odd to me that nothing shows up in the shader preview, and hence this brings us back to a Feature Request!  I would like a Shader Preview window that lets you Pan and Zoom so your not just stuck zooming into the origin.  There have been many instances where I have needed to zoom into something in the shader preview but I couldn't get close enough because as you zoom in the area I wanted to see gets cut off by the edges of the preview and you can't pan on over or pick a different zoom in point.

Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: sboerner on February 10, 2019, 03:54:40 PM
Quote
I would like a Shader Preview window that lets you Pan and Zoom so your not just stuck zooming into the origin.  There have been many instances where I have needed to zoom into something in the shader preview but I couldn't get close enough because as you zoom in the area I wanted to see gets cut off by the edges of the preview and you can't pan on over or pick a different zoom in point.

Echo this. I know this has been requested elsewhere in the forum. It would be a huge timesaver.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 11, 2019, 06:19:29 AM
Indeed, handy to have that possibility sometimes.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: mhaze on February 11, 2019, 08:37:04 AM
Ditto :D
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: ajcgi on February 25, 2019, 02:34:45 PM
I also have been learning and using Houdini the past year and Houdini gives you many ways to debug your scene. Houdini's network view is a joy to use compared to other node based applications. If you feel it being too complex I highly recommend you to learn some basic development skills to understand how data is stored and how it flows.
That said I agree with it not being artist friendly.

Absolutely agree. I have had to up the anti on understanding how data moves around VFX scenes. That being said I come from a Softimage background and ICE simulation necessitated understanding some of that at any level. Going from that to Houdini was a challenge workflow-wise in some ways, but at least it wasn't like going to Maya which to me was like arguing with a petulant child every time I did anything.
Node network in Houdini is now my best friend. Every time I'm in Terragen I long for differently coloured nodes, ones of a different shape and so on.

I don't think it's fair to compare a complex application that is mostly TD/VFX oriented with a simple terrain design tool. In my feature request list I posted a few ideas on how to make Terragen easier to use. Value remapping is a very important feature which is used in many terrain design tools. It allows you to artistically remap values and allows you to create new shapes quite easily.

Houdini has excellent terrain tools that both I and my colleagues have had great success with, especially in tandem with Terragen.

Lastly, many sincere apologies for saying 'off you pop'. Reading that back made me cringe. It was very sarcastic, arrogant and doesn't help anyone. I must have been having a shitty week for some reason.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on February 26, 2019, 06:15:14 AM
I have one; sometimes you can't easily get rid of the manipulation stuff of an object or simple shape or something, once selected. I usually click somehwere outside the preview window, but yesterday it constantly selected another simple shape. Turning off all objects (in the window) turned them all off, but the crosshairs remained.
So maybe an extra line in the popup where you can select an object should be needed: 'selection off' ?
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on February 26, 2019, 08:59:55 PM
I also have another small request.  When resizing Group windows it seems you can only resize to the left, right, or down, but not up.  I often times need to expand my Atmosphere group, so I have to drag the whole thing up first and then resize it from the bottom edge instead of simply just dragging the upper edge up to make more room.  Very minor, but thought I would ask.  ;)

-Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Matt on February 26, 2019, 09:04:23 PM
You can resize the group by the top edge, but you have to be zoomed in quite far. I'll try to improve this. Some more info here: https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,25674.0.html
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on February 28, 2019, 10:12:16 PM
Thanks Matt!  Now I know why I could sometimes move the top edge of the group container.  ;) 

-Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Ethrieltd on March 02, 2019, 06:55:06 PM
I add these: atmospheric optics effects - rainbows, halos, iridescence, corona, sun pillars, distorsion/mirage sun and moon near horizon.

I've used Halosim for Sun Dogs from https://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/halfeat.htm but it'd be great to see the ability built in. There's also IRIS from the same site that is for Rainbows, etc. Which I haven't tried.

This is an example of a HaloSim generated effect composited into a Terragen scene.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: bobbystahr on March 02, 2019, 07:27:24 PM
I add these: atmospheric optics effects - rainbows, halos, iridescence, corona, sun pillars, distorsion/mirage sun and moon near horizon.

I've used Halosim for Sun Dogs from https://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/halfeat.htm but it'd be great to see the ability built in. There's also IRIS from the same site that is for Rainbows, etc. Which I haven't tried.

This is an example of a HaloSim generated effect composited into a Terragen scene.

Indeed that would be a handy thing to have
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: sjefen on March 06, 2019, 04:02:01 PM
Would also be cool with a population that can handle more objects at the same time and control how much % each one gets populated. Would make it a lot faster to grow a forest with more variations. Combined with random scale and rotations (with controls) and I would be very happy  :)


- Terje
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on March 06, 2019, 09:49:39 PM
Quote
Would also be cool with a population that can handle more objects at the same time and control how much % each one gets populated.

I've been using MASH in Maya to create some ecosystems: https://vimeo.com/205891678

Has some very cool ideas, like seeding the start points for an ecosystem, then having it "grow" out from the seed points based on wind distribution of the seeds of each plant/tree.

Mostly though it stores an array of objects to randomly populate in one node, which can be biased to favour selected elements. Would love to see this in Terragen.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: icarus51 on June 21, 2019, 10:50:27 AM
Yep, lots of good ideas here. Many already suggested, which we keep in a private issue tracker. We're listening and will implement as much as we can over time. I can tell you we are almost certainly never going to support Vray shaders though. Other than that it's all probably fair game.

- Oshyan

Hy.

I remember when, many years ago, ask for optics effects in Terragen (eg. rainbows, halos, light pillar, mirages and iridescence in clouds). Many years have passed but these features i don't see in the current software. I know these effects can be made after render (post production) by graphic editor but  these effects will not be embodied and calculated in the software with the result of a unrealistic and displaced vision.
A plugin (or feature) for these effects would be fantastic for this feature or few new parameters in Atmosphere and/or Clouds.
Sculpting Tool could be the most precious thing, naturally. Now in the current 2019 seems to me that the time for these things is arrived, or am i wrong and missed something? In case, excuse me for my enthusiasm and my impatience.  :-[
Greetings.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: icarus51 on June 21, 2019, 11:04:31 AM
I add these: atmospheric optics effects - rainbows, halos, iridescence, corona, sun pillars, distorsion/mirage sun and moon near horizon.

I've used Halosim for Sun Dogs from https://www.atoptics.co.uk/halo/halfeat.htm but it'd be great to see the ability built in. There's also IRIS from the same site that is for Rainbows, etc. Which I haven't tried.

This is an example of a HaloSim generated effect composited into a Terragen scene.

I also have tried this but if this feature could be  built in Terragen  this is better, i hope you understand me.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on June 21, 2019, 01:01:29 PM
I have a NEW feature request, but not sure if it has already been asked.

Can we get a check box to turn on "Save GI Cache (for single frame renders"

Because I don't do a whole lot of animation I often times turn my GI Cache Quality up, and it takes a long time to process just the GI, so after rendering a single frame I would like to keep that GI cache file wherever it may be.  I know you can render just the GI cache, and then use the Load GI Cache file that way, but it would be nice to kick off a render and have it save the GI Cache automatically without doing a 2-Step process.

-Derek
 
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: jaf on June 21, 2019, 04:05:31 PM
I'm going to repeat a request I made long ago.  Never did hear why it wouldn't be useful or very hard to implement.  A simple "do not clear render output" checkbox.  One would do a crop and with that checkbox checked, make a change like to a surface shader and then do another crop near or next to the first one and then render again.  And then, if desired, do a third, fourth, etc. Much quicker and easier than saving off crops and comparing each in an editor.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: digitalguru on June 21, 2019, 04:30:03 PM
I would imagine that's quite easy to do, all it would need is some way to step through/read any renders output to the Automatic Render Output files folder.

It's something I do on every Terragen session (and all users of Terragen I'd imagine) It would be a very useful feature.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on June 21, 2019, 06:41:38 PM
I'm going to repeat a request I made long ago.  Never did hear why it wouldn't be useful or very hard to implement.  A simple "do not clear render output" checkbox.  One would do a crop and with that checkbox checked, make a change like to a surface shader and then do another crop near or next to the first one and then render again.  And then, if desired, do a third, fourth, etc. Much quicker and easier than saving off crops and comparing each in an editor.

I have been dreaming of that feature as well!  Great Idea, since render iteration in Terragen is what we all do over and over.  I hate how the frame buffer clears to black ever render.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: kentm on June 21, 2019, 07:44:22 PM
This is one thing I'd love as well, for my 2 cents.

Personally I'd love it if new features could be put on hold for a little bit and have the dev team focus on UX & workflow enhancements. Terragen, in my opinion is at an AMAZING state as far as toolsets go and its the perfect time to focus instead on ways to refine the UI and streamline the workflows.

I'm new again to the program and am just getting back into it, though I was briefly a part of the original beta years (I forget but I'm going to say v 0.5?), and do want to say that I really am blown away by what its possible to do with Terragen and the functions that have been added to the program, so I'd love to see the UI and workflow getting some real attention.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Oshyan on June 21, 2019, 07:50:36 PM
Improvements to the render view are planned for the future and would incorporate some similar functionality to what you're referring to ("don't clear the previous render").

We don't plan to support unusual atmospheric and optical effects at this time, however.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: WASasquatch on June 25, 2019, 04:59:31 PM
We don't plan to support unusual atmospheric and optical effects at this time, however.

- Oshyan

I believe he's trying to descibr ice particles in the air when it's below freezing point. Not unusual, actually very common globally, and would be a nice effect with TG's atmosphere tab. A "Temperature" slider even that creates halo around light sources. Colder it is, I believer the further the halo is seen from the source, and more dense it's effect. This is commonly seen with the sun because most people are indoors during dawn, and not in northern or southern hemispheres, but this phenomenon is very common at night with the moon.

Rainbow effect isn't as common and comes down to where you are in relation to lighting. More a post-processing thing.

But having a halo effect from ice particles would add a level of realism for light sources and sun/moons.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: D.A. Bentley on July 08, 2019, 06:06:31 PM
Another render related feature request here.  Wouldn't it be nice if we could render a particular set of chosen frames, and frame ranges like you can do by command line rendering right in Terragen.

We can render a sequence by a certain interval, but why not have the option to render Frames "1-100, 115, 116, 128, 132-134, 150-255" right within Terragen?

This would be very helpful for me, so if it's easy to implement please do so Master Matt.  ;)

-Derek
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: WASasquatch on July 09, 2019, 07:39:54 PM
Another render related feature request here.  Wouldn't it be nice if we could render a particular set of chosen frames, and frame ranges like you can do by command line rendering right in Terragen.

We can render a sequence by a certain interval, but why not have the option to render Frames "1-100, 115, 116, 128, 132-134, 150-255" right within Terragen?

This would be very helpful for me, so if it's easy to implement please do so Master Matt.  ;)

-Derek


That's a pretty good idea actually and doesn't seem like too much would need to altered by targeted frames.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: kentm on July 16, 2019, 10:47:02 PM
I'd like to cast a vote for having a render/RTP window open at the same time as a 3d Preview window.

...I'm trying to punch a hole into a cloud in a specific spot and am having to jump back and forth between the two states/view styles in the one pane to adjust the position of the SSShader and its a bit frustrating. I CAN do it numerically of course but it sure would be a lot easier if I could drag the handle around in one window and have the immediate feedback from the RTP preview.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Oshyan on July 16, 2019, 11:29:59 PM
RTP will have drag handles in upcoming version 4.4. Multiple simultaneous preview windows should be a possibility in the future.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: Dune on July 17, 2019, 05:38:36 AM
I've written it several times, but it's easier to punch a hole in skies with a projected white circle (inverted of course), instead of laborously moving around SSS's.
Title: Re: FEATURE REQUESTS
Post by: bobbystahr on July 17, 2019, 02:48:50 PM
I've written it several times, but it's easier to punch a hole in skies with a projected white circle (inverted of course), instead of laborously moving around SSS's.

And many thanks for that Ulco...a most useful suggestion then and now.