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General => Image Sharing => Topic started by: Dune on April 06, 2019, 07:17:45 am

Title: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 06, 2019, 07:17:45 am
PT mode, with extra no shadow sun, but at 0.2 strength.

And added, RT mode. Both no post.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Antoine on April 06, 2019, 08:09:15 am
Very nice !
Did you use exagerate surface details ?

David
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 06, 2019, 08:24:15 am
No, I didn't.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Antoine on April 06, 2019, 09:00:18 am
The first one is definitely better in the areas where there is vegetation.

David
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Matt on April 06, 2019, 02:20:30 pm
I think the extra no-shadow sun is hurting the realism of the shadows.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 07, 2019, 01:55:21 am
Maybe it is, and it's not 'pure', but I wanted some more light. I may try increasing exposure, as I find a default PT render pretty dark. It's possible in post too, no doubt. I have also found that some of my renders have been printed very dark (in books), compared to what I see on my monitor, but that may be a printer's error.

Path is not good yet.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Matt on April 07, 2019, 02:13:09 am
The default exposure and sunlight are tweaked for a more open scene and are not ideal for this kind of dappled sunlight scene. I would treat this like photography and solve it by increasing exposure. That's what you'd have to do with a real camera in this scene, and it's also what your eyes would do naturally if you were standing there. You might overexpose the parts in sunlight, but personally I don't mind that. There may be ways to avoid that. You could lighten up the sky to get more light into the shadows. And maybe brighten up the materials in the scene so that they bounce more light around.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Matt on April 07, 2019, 02:15:57 am
Maybe also look at the contrast setting on the render node. You could reduce that to 0 for a flatter look.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Upon Infinity on April 07, 2019, 04:40:32 am
Wouldn't increasing GI give a more natural look (without increasing exposure)?
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 07, 2019, 05:14:29 am
Thanks Matt, I'll have another go. GI wouldn't work with Path Trace, as I understand. I did add a cirrus with quite some coverage to get more reflected light.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: mhaze on April 07, 2019, 05:40:32 am
Watching this with interest.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: bobbystahr on April 07, 2019, 11:53:20 am
Quote from: mhaze on April 07, 2019, 05:40:32 am
Watching this with interest.


me as well
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 08, 2019, 02:06:49 am
Here's another iteration (70% of rendersize). Exposure now set to 1.3, no extra sun, robust sampling (1/256), and shadows of objects in low cloud checked. I tried the contrast setting, but it became a bit too flat, so I changed it to 0.25 again.
This was actually a test of a Megascan forest floor tiled texture, but as usual, I built it up a bit.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: bobbystahr on April 08, 2019, 04:08:52 am
 O K, I'm convinced
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Matt on April 08, 2019, 05:02:01 am
It is still very dark. Why not go higher on the exposure?
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 08, 2019, 06:04:29 am
I can try 1.5, but I can also raise it in post  ;) It struck me that the misty areas between the trees is a bit grainy. I suppose that's from the robust sampler.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: sjefen on April 08, 2019, 06:48:56 am
Quote from: Dune on April 07, 2019, 05:14:29 am
Thanks Matt, I'll have another go. GI wouldn't work with Path Trace, as I understand. I did add a cirrus with quite some coverage to get more reflected light.


So it doesn't matter what the GI settings one use if using PT???
Great looking scene, but I would also try increasing the exposure.   :)


- Terje
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: sboerner on April 08, 2019, 09:09:17 am
Ulco, if you don't mind me asking I'm curious about your workflow. Do you render out to 32-bit exr? Do you use a calibrated monitor?

If you find that your renderings are printing dark then the client should be requesting color match proofs and the printer should make any necessary adjustments. Ultimately image reproduction quality is the printer's responsibility - they know what needs to go on press.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Oshyan on April 08, 2019, 05:38:10 pm
The adaptive sampler may produce grainier results in some cases, but it should be rendering faster (as you said). In that case just lower the Pixel Noise Threshold a little and you should get back to the same quality, but should also still have somewhat lower render time. That's the goal of Robust, at least.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 09, 2019, 02:13:49 am
I sometimes do 32-bit exr for finals, or at least 16-bit tif. And I don't have a calibrated monitor, but it's an eizo flexscan (S2431W), which is supposed to be good by itself. I found that with some printers the result is matching very well with what I see, so I thought it to be okay, but other printers print my work too dark. I suppose it's their fault, but every time something like that happens, I doubt my delivery.
I know from one occasion that the printer forgot to use an icc profile, and in a second edition they did and it looked much better. Anyway, I often remind my clients to not print it too dark, so they can think for themselves and take steps if needed. I also ask for a pdf of a page or cover or so, to check if it looks 'kind of' okay. Like this one...

Thanks Oshyan, I'll keep that in mind.

Here's an iteration with exposure set to 1.5. Low cloud without shadows. DOF by depth pass.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: bobbystahr on April 09, 2019, 02:27:13 am
The Dutch page seems well printed, I really like that windmill/lock thing a lot and it looks good and photo-real small..the main image must make them think (the general public) that you have a time traveling camera.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 09, 2019, 05:34:20 am
Yes, this one is well printed.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: DocCharly65 on April 09, 2019, 09:01:04 am
Quote from: bobbystahr on April 09, 2019, 02:27:13 am
The Dutch page seems well printed, I really like that windmill/lock thing a lot and it looks good and photo-real small..the main image must make them think (the general public) that you have a time traveling camera.


Same what I thought :)
Just great!
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: sboerner on April 09, 2019, 11:14:10 am
The brochure is nicely done. I really like the way the designer juxtaposed your images with current photos. It's hard to tell the difference!

Thanks for the details and indulging my curiosity. Many of us work alone and it's interesting and helpful to learn how experienced artists do their work. Just IMHO down the road you may want to consider a display that can be calibrated with a hardware kit. The quality and scale of your work certainly warrants it.
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Oshyan on April 09, 2019, 03:29:07 pm
I *really* like the way the ferns look in the latest image(s). The DoF is also nice. Personally I'd prefer it without the human figure, but I know it's relevant for a lot of work (is this a client piece?).

Eizo's can definitely be calibrated. They come "out of the box" reasonably more accurate than many others, but there is I think a somewhat common myth that a high quality monitor *capable* of accurate output is inherently more accurate. This is not the case. You *must* calibrate - *and* do so *regularly* (at least once a year) - to keep your display accurate! There are lots of reasons for this, things can shift over time as the hardware ages, or if you change some other part of the hardware pipeline like the GPU, and also there are environmental factors (for example if you move your computer setup into a different room with different lighting or even notably different paint color on the walls reflecting more or less light). It seems like these should not make much difference, but they do, especially in aggregate, i.e. considered all together.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Forest floor
Post by: Dune on April 10, 2019, 02:02:04 am
No, it's not for a client, but started as just a test of a 'moist leaf' texture from Quixel Megascans. Added 2 trees, 2 grasses, a fern, a leaf and a mushroom to make it look a bit nicer. And added the figure as an afterthought, as that would maybe sell to my clients  ;)

I know what you're saying, Oshyan, and I agree, but never took the steps to do it. Overall the colors of my printed work came out well (never had any complaints by clients), but only occasionally too dark.