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General => Image Sharing => NWDA Theme Challenge - Travelers => Topic started by: Dune on June 12, 2020, 03:58:25 am

Title: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 12, 2020, 03:58:25 am
I might consider something like this for the contest. Anything goes, in terms of assets and stuff, so why not?

I also have a question for Danny; what final color adjustments are allowed. Can we adjust colors from sort of daytime into nighttime? Things like that can be done within TG, but it's a lot of work to change all object materials. A bit of post is easier. So what is allowed?
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: N-drju on June 12, 2020, 07:29:05 am
Looks good, nice entry. So what assets did you use?

Not sure why you would need to change the shaders when shifting from day into night? A shirt is always a shirt, no matter the time of the day...? :P
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 12, 2020, 08:31:14 am
Assets are still a secret :-X 8)

Well, colors at moonlight are always less saturated. Your eyes can't catch color very well in dark circumstances. Giving everything procedural a grey-bluish tint is not the hardest, but the object desaturation can only be done per object.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 12, 2020, 10:05:27 am
Well, at first I thought there would be stone tablets, but I see we have an ox and cart in the fray....very nice models and outstanding environment. :)
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Kadri on June 12, 2020, 11:54:04 am
Looks great already Ulco. Especially the background terrain. I love it. It is Terragen, isn't it?
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: j meyer on June 12, 2020, 12:11:08 pm
The woman on the right is walking tiptoe, is that intentionally?
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Jo Kariboo on June 12, 2020, 12:51:35 pm
I really like the mountain in the back and the layout of the characters. I think another type of light could increase the realism of the scene. It often happens that with a cloudy sky the image becomes flat and this is more obvious with 3d, here it looks more like a painting than a photograph.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: DannyG on June 12, 2020, 03:04:41 pm
Quote from: Dune on June 12, 2020, 03:58:25 amI might consider something like this for the contest. Anything goes, in terms of assets and stuff, so why not?

I also have a question for Danny; what final color adjustments are allowed. Can we adjust colors from sort of daytime into nighttime? Things like that can be done within TG, but it's a lot of work to change all object materials. A bit of post is easier. So what is allowed?
That looks awesome Ulco, this is a great opportunity for Terragen to shine. In regards to the day to night postwork that would be too much as you can simply make the nighttime settings inside TG. Then minor tweaks from there
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: N-drju on June 13, 2020, 02:48:30 am
Quote from: Dune on June 12, 2020, 08:31:14 amAssets are still a secret :-X 8)

I think I know what is going on here (I probably know where I should be looking) but I will hold my peace. 8) Now I have also noticed that you have probably made these characters for the purpose of the contest rather than professional work. They look familliar. :D
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 15, 2020, 02:08:20 am
This is going to be interesting. Here's another option.... what do you guys think?

No, haven't made these people for the contest, but I did change a few parts of some objects for another entry candidate, as moonlight was out of the question (so torches needed to be replaced).
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: N-drju on June 15, 2020, 06:22:33 am
The "bridge" is an interesting addition. But the beech (are they?) populations need revisions obviously. It would be best to find plants that grow the first section of the trunk horizontally (e.g. encephalartos altensteinii) and mount them to the bridge's sides.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Kadri on June 15, 2020, 06:38:46 am
This one looks good too.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: DannyG on June 15, 2020, 10:39:51 am
That looks awesome Ulco
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: WAS on June 15, 2020, 03:38:08 pm
Quote from: Dune on June 12, 2020, 03:58:25 amCan we adjust colors from sort of daytime into nighttime?
Tonal grading is allowed, but I'm wondering if going from day to night is more total pixel reconstruction. I can't speak for Danny, just what I understand from him.

From my own understanding, using Photoshop, and doing similar, it requires usually a few passes of edits to achieve realistic results, which is pretty extreme on pixel values. Especially when looking at the original work and post-work for the judges.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 16, 2020, 01:54:50 am
I read Danny's reply, so the moonlight shot is off. I know it takes a little fiddling in PS, and I can understand the requirements for this contest. It's not only the total toning, but also there were people carrying torches, and those light areas needn't be less saturated. It can be done in TG, but just too much work. If there were a checkbox/slider somewhere that would reduce overall saturation where light was dull/dark, that would be cool. But there isn't.

Anyway; speaking about requirements for the contest here's my point; I've been fooling you guys ;D  hoping for a discussion. Only a few of you were suspicious.
None of these will be my entry, but having read that assets are allowed, I took it a step further. Too far, in my eyes, and that's my point. If you make, or purchase, or find some nice photo-based assets it is not very hard to make a render that looks very photographic. In the industry, or with artists stating their points, okay, whatever needs to be used is allright, as long as it conveys what needs to be said. But in a contest it might not be all that fair. Maybe I'm too much of a purist... but I would have stated in the rules that say not more than 10% may be photo-based assets. I also know that e.g. trees are textured by photography, but the trees are still 3D objects.
The earlier renders where also largely photo-based; the mountains, and rock bridge are photographs (on a plane and on a quite simple shape, respectively). Would you consider them renders? Worthy for a contest? I think not.

So to finalize, here's another quite simple render. I quickly made an asset in ZB, used a photo as texture, and put some people and veggies on it.

My real entry will be something that shows what TG is capable of, also in terms of shaping the globe.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Kadri on June 16, 2020, 02:28:43 am
Yeah that background was frightening ;D
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: N-drju on June 16, 2020, 04:14:03 am
Quote from: Dune on June 16, 2020, 01:54:50 amAnyway; speaking about requirements for the contest here's my point; I've been fooling you guys ;D  hoping for a discussion. Only a few of you were suspicious.
None of these will be my entry, but having read that assets are allowed, I took it a step further. Too far, in my eyes, and that's my point. If you make, or purchase, or find some nice photo-based assets it is not very hard to make a render that looks very photographic. In the industry, or with artists stating their points, okay, whatever needs to be used is allright, as long as it conveys what needs to be said. But in a contest it might not be all that fair.

Haha, I knew it. ;D I just remembered your previous mention from the main contest thread. But apart from that, I have noticed that the background was sharply contrasting with the foreground. It was even more evident in the bridge shot - looked flat, almost like a backdrop in the theatre.

I also think that it would not be fair to simply put a few cards in with projected images on them and call it a day. If the goal is to achieve the highest level of photorealism, that would be the best (if effortless) way to win... But I have never doubted your fairness.  ;)
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Hannes on June 16, 2020, 04:41:25 am
Actually I didn't notice it. But I agree with you, that putting together a scene with textured cards would not be fair. Nevertheless great stuff, and the last one looks fantastic too.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: DannyG on June 16, 2020, 04:18:24 pm
Quote from: Dune on June 16, 2020, 01:54:50 amAnyway; speaking about requirements for the contest here's my point; I've been fooling you guys ;D  hoping for a discussion. Only a few of you were suspicious.
None of these will be my entry, but having read that assets are allowed, I took it a step further. Too far, in my eyes, and that's my point. If you make, or purchase, or find some nice photo-based assets it is not very hard to make a render that looks very photographic. In the industry, or with artists stating their points, okay, whatever needs to be used is allright, as long as it conveys what needs to be said. But in a contest it might not be all that fair. Maybe I'm too much of a purist... but I would have stated in the rules that say not more than 10% may be photo-based assets. I also know that e.g. trees are textured by photography, but the trees are still 3D objects.


lol, something like this would have been flagged in a heartbeat when viewed at full size and by our judges who have seen an image or 2 in their day. That said this guideline covers any would be situations like this:
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 17, 2020, 03:30:19 am
Yes, I know, but they are still assets, so where's the limit of allowed/not-allowed? Large photogrammetry rock object in front possible? Cliff face (photogrammetry) taking up 1/3 of a render? Foreground textured by photo? Skydome? Quite subjective, I'd say.
But my entry will have none of this, anyway.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: j meyer on June 17, 2020, 12:26:35 pm
The one with the ZB asset is cool.
And stuff like that should be allowed, if I understand that rules properly.
Anyway, good luck.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: WAS on June 17, 2020, 02:38:03 pm
That second image of yours I really like, but the tree covering the flowing fields on the mountain is obstructive imo. But the textures from image do look crap, and it's very noticeable (the mountains). The reflection on the fields too, which looks lovely, is totally not a Ulco thing, too :P You tend to have pretty flat landscapes. Think we've had discussions a few times about environment reflections and render times. I find it suitable because of realism.

Also like the latest cliff walk one, though. Is that the old cliff scene reworked?
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 18, 2020, 02:08:19 am
I did not put very much effort into these renders apart from finding the 'assets', so just plumped some trees down, and tried to get it a bit coherent. And molded some simple cliffs. The reason I posted these was only to stir a discussion about how much purchased/found assets were allowed in a contest like this. Should most be handmade by the artist, featuring his/her skills, or can items be gotten elsewhere and imported, and rendered out to get a render as photographic as possible?

And no, the latest one is a newly molded sheet, on which I put some people. Part on the right is a rotated copy of the path mold. At first I left the whole planet out, but did put it on in the end for some far ground. Very easy, very simple. The only problem I encountered here is that you can't get a location from rightclick in viewport on an object.

But how can the textures from image look crap? It's a photo, the whole background. On a plane just behind the rock wall with the holes.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: N-drju on June 18, 2020, 04:55:24 am
Quote from: Dune on June 18, 2020, 02:08:19 amBut how can the textures from image look crap? It's a photo, the whole background.

I guess Jordan meant crap, in the photo "zero effort required" sense.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 18, 2020, 04:57:24 am
I guess so.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 21, 2020, 06:32:19 am
Just submitted mine, I've had enough of it. Tried some chromatic abberation as a final 'photographic' trick, but decided not to, as it makes it a bit softer and I just don't like it.
16 hours PT render, just some auto color adjust at 50%, and that's it. No other asset trickery.
I won't post here, as I don't want to scare you guys ;D ;D
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Kadri on June 21, 2020, 07:34:33 am
Quote from: Dune on June 21, 2020, 06:32:19 am...Tried some chromatic abberation as a final 'photographic' trick, but decided not to, as it makes it a bit softer and I just don't like it.
...

If it wasn't for my very sharp post worked latest image i would try to put a joke about Hannes here...  :)

And come on...please post your image Ulco  ;D
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Hannes on June 21, 2020, 08:13:07 am
Quote from: Kadri on June 21, 2020, 07:34:33 amIf it wasn't for my very sharp post worked latest image i would try to put a joke about Hannes here...  (https://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/Smileys/fugue/smiley.png)

And come on...please post your image Ulco 
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



Yes, come on, Ulco! Don't hesitate!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 22, 2020, 01:40:13 am
Well, as it's on the NWDA site anyway, why not. Enjoy!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: N-drju on June 22, 2020, 03:04:20 am
Very nice. And I see you have found a nice middle-ground regarding the mist.

I'm just a bit afraid that the rider in the back is about to cause some mass casualties. :P
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Kadri on June 22, 2020, 04:17:49 am
Nice render Ulco.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Hannes on June 22, 2020, 08:25:09 am
Great image Ulco!! A fantastic scenery.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: zaxxon on June 22, 2020, 08:34:21 am
That is a beautiful image Ulco. The lighting, the foliage and the mist create a wonderful setting for the stories that the travelers must be living as they labor up the scenic incline, and that messenger (?) speeding by on the galloping horse!  Sort of like 'The Canterbury Tales' done in Terragen. Lots of detail and interest: this has to be a strong contender! Good luck Ulco!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 22, 2020, 10:03:06 am
Thanks guys! Good luck to you all too! Good fun, such contests :) Makes you just want to do a little more.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: j meyer on June 22, 2020, 12:01:05 pm
Nice one again. :)
I see good improvements on the clothes in general
and the tarpaulins onthe carts are great.
Good luck once more.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: masonspappy on June 22, 2020, 02:54:01 pm
Wow! That is a really nice image!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Jo Kariboo on June 24, 2020, 11:53:40 am
We can see your multiple talents here and not only on Terragen. It is probably one of the most technically complex images of the contest so far presented here. I like the set up of all the characters interacting. Good luck!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 25, 2020, 02:06:09 am
Thanks guys! It was indeed quite some work to make all the objects (though some I already had) and especially place them correctly and in a logical, storytelling way.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: sboerner on June 25, 2020, 11:05:41 am
Nice one, Ulco! Love the point of view and am very curious about the contents of the enormous cask near the head of the line.

Good luck.
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 25, 2020, 11:10:33 am
:)  That's what they'll be drinking when they get there!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: sboerner on June 25, 2020, 07:06:28 pm
Suspected as much. Maybe that's why that horseman is in such a hurry. :)
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on June 26, 2020, 01:16:34 am
;D ;D
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: DannyG on June 26, 2020, 02:59:02 am
That's quite the image Ulco. Congrats
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: mhaze on July 05, 2020, 05:04:36 am
Terrific work!
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Hetzen on July 05, 2020, 08:43:04 am
Agree. He's probably knocked up a few more since.  ;D
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: Dune on July 05, 2020, 11:09:15 am
;D  Only the first counts :P
Title: Re: I don't know yet...
Post by: luvsmuzik on July 07, 2020, 11:21:01 am
Great effort! We shall have to cross examine this evidence when the prizes are awarded! (Meaning.....how does he consistently do this stuff?) (And then shares with us.... ;D)