Planetside Software Forums

General => Open Discussion => Topic started by: PG on February 07, 2008, 08:58:26 PM

Title: system built for TG2
Post by: PG on February 07, 2008, 08:58:26 PM
Well I've just received a whole mess of junk for my computer, time to replace the dusty P4 and DDR1. Haven't received my core 2 duo Wolfdale yet, been "delayed". Anyone care to hazard a guess at what kind of improvements I'll get from my old system to my new one? My old system was actually really fast, no render took under 20 hours, might have been because I cancelled any that took longer than that :D, well I have things to do and no other core to do other things with.

Old system:
Pentium 4 prescott 2.93Ghz
1.5GB PC3200 DDR Ram
really rubbish SIS661FX mobo, that's the northbridge, impossible to get the mobo model.
Geforce 7600GT 512MB AGP
etc etc


New system, woo:
Core 2 Duo Wolfdale 3.0GHz
2GB PC2 7200 DDR2 Ram
ASRock 1600P35-Wifi+
Geforce 8600GTS 256 MB PCI-E
etc etc.

Running Vista and XP dual boot on both systems.
Oh yeah and I'm buying deep once my bank balance has recouperated.

---Edit----
Buying Deep + Animation, really want the motion blur  ;D
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: king_tiger_666 on February 09, 2008, 09:29:19 PM
which Wolfdale cpu?...
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: PG on February 10, 2008, 06:32:41 PM
The E8400. Absolutely amazing spec, outperformes the Core 2 Duo Extreme X6800, and because it's on a 45 nm process built using hafnium, a new material, means they have something called high-k for the transistor gate dielectric and new materials for the transistor gate electrode. All that jargon rubbish basically means that the wolfdales can be overclocked to stupid amounts without even having to increase the voltage and with no loss in stability, it's insane.
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: Will on February 10, 2008, 07:16:46 PM
nice
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: Moose on February 10, 2008, 08:32:22 PM
All that jargon rubbish basically means that the wolfdales can be overclocked to stupid amounts without even having to increase the voltage and with no loss in stability, it's insane.

This is actually a lottery in whether you get a good chip or not. I recently bought a Yorkfield and it's a bit of a stinker to be honest - well there're faster ones out there is what I mean (Mr. Jobs must have got mine). They'll do what they say on the tin, but anything above that is in the hands of the gods. I can get to 3.8Ghz without going above 1.33v (bios) but there are others who can get theirs in the mid 4s on air with far less voltage. I was hoping for more from mine... though mustn't grumble, eh.

If you read any of the posts over on - www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? - there's alot of people putting volts close to what they did with their Conroes through them, and suffering degradation already. Basically the 45nm process seems to be a lot less volt tolerant, even when considering the die shrink. Intel say the max safe is 1.368v (or something like that) with 1.45v being the ultimate max (i.e. expect to suffer degradation at anything over 1.368v though the chip should still function at 1.45v) - this hasn't stopped people in thinking that 1.45v is safe for 24/7. Of course, how much leaniency Intel have built into their figures is anyone's guess, plus every chip is different anyway. Needless to say, being the scaredy pants that I am (or poor :P) - I shant be putting more than 1.35v through mine (not at least without a bios update which opens up the margins a little again), but each to their own...

I notice you haven't specified a cooler (or are you going to go with the stock one?). If you're looking for a recommendation, take a look at the Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 - http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/u120ex/product_cpu_cooler_u120ex.htm?art=MTQyMywxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA== - keeps my chip so cool that I've had to disable the consequent low fan-speed warnings which are forever sounding. It's cheap for what it is and'll keep your system quiet.

I hope you get a good chip - good luck. :)

Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: PG on February 10, 2008, 08:46:59 PM
This is actually a lottery in whether you get a good chip or not. I recently bought a Yorkfield and it's a bit of a stinker to be honest - well there're faster ones out there is what I mean (Mr. Jobs must have got mine). They'll do what they say on the tin, but anything above that is in the hands of the gods. I can get to 3.8Ghz without going above 1.33v (bios) but there are others who can get theirs in the mid 4s on air with far less voltage. I was hoping for more from mine... though mustn't grumble, eh.

If you read any of the posts over on - www.xtremesystems.org/forums/index.php? - there's alot of people putting volts close to what they did with their Conroes through them, and suffering degradation already. Basically the 45nm process seems to be a lot less volt tolerant, even when considering the die shrink. Intel say the max safe is 1.368v (or something like that) with 1.45v being the ultimate max (i.e. expect to suffer degradation at anything over 1.368v though the chip should still function at 1.45v) - this hasn't stopped people in thinking that 1.45v is safe for 24/7. Of course, how much leaniency Intel have built into their figures is anyone's guess, plus every chip is different anyway. Needless to say, being the scaredy pants that I am (or poor :P) - I shant be putting more than 1.35v through mine (not at least without a bios update which opens up the margins a little again), but each to their own...

I notice you haven't specified a cooler (or are you going to go with the stock one?). If you're looking for a recommendation, take a look at the Thermalright Ultra Extreme 120 - http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/u120ex/product_cpu_cooler_u120ex.htm?art=MTQyMywxLCxoZW50aHVzaWFzdA== - keeps my chip so cool that I've had to disable the consequent low fan-speed warnings which are forever sounding. It's cheap for what it is and'll keep your system quiet.

I hope you get a good chip - good luck. :)


Thanks :D I've got an Asaka Revo, it's a bubble pump cooler, bizarre thing. http://www.akasa.co.uk/akasa_english/spec_page/coolers/spec_ak_925.htm
Have a look at the review of the Wolfdale E8500 on Xbit. http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/intel-wolfdale.html
They seem to overclock it quite a lot with no real difficulty at all because the power consumption is already so low and the heat dissipation is really good on 100% load. Theirs was runnings at 1.5v, got it to 4.37GHz and it was only giving off 70
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: Moose on February 10, 2008, 09:44:18 PM
Ah it looks like you're sorted then. :)

As to the article... I don't doubt their figures, but from everything I've read over the last three months or so on how these procs are performing, these just aren't 24/7 figures. They're giving the impression they are however, and that everything is fine and dandy. People running these speeds are seeing degradation. Every chip is different and it's just chance if you get a good one or not (I dare say Intel made sure their review chips weren't going to be stinkers). As to the low temperatures in the article, they shouldn't be much of a consideration if the volts are way outsides Intel's limits. Why else have those limits?

I'm new to all this malarkey :), so am only saying what I've seen more experience people say. If you can afford to thrash your chip and bin it in a year or two, or you're lucky and get an absolute screamer, you'll be laughing. Otherwise it's worth noting that there seems to be a huge disparity in the amount of headroom these chips have and to not go jumping straight in expecting to get the speeds and volts which the reviews are touting - not for 24/7 anyway.

:)
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: JimB on February 11, 2008, 07:02:19 AM
Every chip is different and it's just chance if you get a good one or not

A bit of related errata - the same applies to camera sensors apparently. One in x-thousand or x-hundred can snap HDR, which is how one maker of an HDR camera can offer such a thing. They buy sensors in bulk and test each one.

Back to the topic.  ;)
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: Will on February 11, 2008, 09:28:54 AM
Every chip is different and it's just chance if you get a good one or not

A bit of related errata - the same applies to camera sensors apparently. One in x-thousand or x-hundred can snap HDR, which is how one maker of an HDR camera can offer such a thing. They buy sensors in bulk and test each one.

Back to the topic.  ;)

weird
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: PG on February 11, 2008, 06:24:44 PM
ooh that is weird.
Anyhow I'm not actually planning on overclocking it very much, if at all. I think 3GHz will be good enough once TG2 is Multi core optimised. It should be here tomorrow, I'll run some benchmarks once it's all setup and let you know how good the wolfdale's are.
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: sjefen on February 11, 2008, 11:09:58 PM
I'm sorry for going a little of topic here, but I'm just a little curious.
When you have (like in this case) a Core 2 Duo 3.0GHz, does that mean you really have a 6.0GHz, or is there another way to calculate this?
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: PG on February 12, 2008, 06:35:49 PM
No, common misconception though. It's a relative calculation and there are a lot of variables to consider. Cache, clock speed, voltage resilience, etc. you don't get 6GHz but if a program is well designed to use both cores then you do see an increase of output per clock cycle.
Think of it as two men digging a ditch, they won't do it double the speed but they'll certainly do it faster.
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: old_blaggard on February 19, 2008, 11:19:18 PM
For those of you looking to stock up on cores for Multithreaded TG2, you might want to give this a second glance: http://dealnews.com/Refurbished-Dell-Power-Edge-2650-8-Core-Intel-Xeon-2-8-GHz-Server-for-650-35-s-h/214045.html
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: rcallicotte on February 20, 2008, 12:46:46 PM
I would need a lot more RAM and an operating system would cost some $$.  But, nice find!
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: Oshyan on February 21, 2008, 05:27:48 AM
These are the old "Netburst" architecture Pentium 4 equivalent Xeon's, in other words compared to modern CPU's for equivalent power use and heat output they're fairly worthless. ;) You could get a Core 2 Quad at 2.4Ghz and beat the pants off this (yes, even with twice the cores) for the same or less money. But a good thought.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: old_blaggard on February 21, 2008, 07:02:08 AM
Yeah, I realized that they were the older Xeons, but I always also thought that the Xeons were architecturally ahead of the standard P4, and that twice the cores at a higher clock speed would make up for most architectural limitations when compared with today's similarly priced systems.  The 3 10k RPM drives, while not particularly useful for Terragen, are nothing to complain about, as well.
Title: Re: system built for TG2
Post by: Oshyan on February 21, 2008, 07:18:49 AM
Actually the 3 10k drives might be worth the price alone! ;D The Xeon's weren't particularly ahead of the P4's architecturally - in fact they were often behind in terms of FSB and clock speed. Don't get me wrong, it's a decent system at a very good proce considering its original retail, but given the amazing price-performance ratio of modern hardware (particularly the Core2 series), it's just hard to match with older equipment.

- Oshyan