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Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: commorancy on August 03, 2008, 01:37:57 pm

Title: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: commorancy on August 03, 2008, 01:37:57 pm
I've been composing a planetary scene in 1.9.99.1 and just noticed that the Planet Surface Shader seems to be missing from this release.  Has it been moved to another location?  If not, is there any plan to add this surface shader back?  This shader makes it much more convenient to create a planet surface than trying to do it all piecemeal.  I also don't know how to cover a planet surface with water easily without this shader.  If it's truly gone, is there a reason for the removal and any plans for a replacement?

If anyone knows where this shader has been moved, please comment.  I'd like to use it in a scene.

Top image 1.9.99.1
Bottom Image 1.9.04.1

Thanks.

--
Brian
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: reck on August 03, 2008, 01:54:10 pm
From the release notes:

""Planet surface shader" is no longer available from the menus. This shader is not recommended and will not be developed further."
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: commorancy on August 03, 2008, 02:08:46 pm
Quote from: reck on August 03, 2008, 01:54:10 pm
From the release notes:

""Planet surface shader" is no longer available from the menus. This shader is not recommended and will not be developed further."


That's unfortunate.  Now it's even more difficult to build up planetary surfaces... as I said, I have no idea how to cover a planet surface easily with water and landmasses without this shader.  Creating a lake only covers a very small area as a disk.  Anyone know of a way to simulate this shader with what's left?

Thanks.

--
Brian
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: zionner on August 03, 2008, 02:09:41 pm
As much as I respect planetside's decisions with what they do with Terragen 2, and that they had always made it clear that this node was very likely to be cut..

I feel that the removal of this node and the announcement of no further development is disappointing, as I felt the node was very useful, and would have been even more so, if it had been fixed.

Zionner
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: zionner on August 03, 2008, 02:10:29 pm
Also, it is still possible to use the planet surface shader, by using a clip file from a previous project that included the node (As the node was not completely removed, only from the menus)
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: cyphyr on August 03, 2008, 02:27:18 pm
Quote from: zionner on August 03, 2008, 02:10:29 pm
Also, it is still possible to use the planet surface shader, by using a clip file from a previous project that included the node (As the node was not completely removed, only from the menus)

Clever cheat :)
Its not too hard to set up planetary scale Power Fractals, its a matter of setting the scales to something suitably huge.
Richard
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: commorancy on August 03, 2008, 02:37:19 pm
Quote from: zionner on August 03, 2008, 02:09:41 pm
As much as I respect planetside's decisions with what they do with Terragen 2, and that they had always made it clear that this node was very likely to be cut..

I feel that the removal of this node and the announcement of no further development is disappointing, as I felt the node was very useful, and would have been even more so, if it had been fixed.

Zionner


Consider that Terragen 2, while an impressive scenery generator, has also been touted as a planetary system visualizer,  The removal of the planet surface shader and discontinued development of such a shader clearly says Planetside no longer intends Terragen 2 to be used for planetary visualization.  Making the creation of convincing planetary bodies more difficult to accomplish, if not impossible, means that designers will not use Terragen 2 for this purpose.  If Planetside wants this tool to be used for planetary and solar system visualization, then they need to make it easier in this process, not harder.   The removal of this shader is, thus, more than disappointing... this move has now taken Terragen 2 a step backwards from one of its original design goals.

BTW, I am fine with removal of buggy or unstable components when they are replaced with alternatives.  When such features are removed without a suitable replacement, that's when it becomes an issue.

Quote from: cyphyr
Its not too hard to set up planetary scale Power Fractals, its a matter of setting the scales to something suitably huge.


Right, but getting planetary sized Power Fractals is only halfway there.  If you're trying to visualize a planet similar to Earth (water and landmasses), you need to be able to create convincing landmass and water together.  I'm still at a loss on how to do this in an easy fashion.  Granted, I'm not a TG2 guru, so there may be a way.  If anyone has any suggestions of how to do this without the planet shader, I'm open.

In the meantime, I may try to suck in a project created in TG2 Free with that shader.  Of course, that will only work until Planetside removes the functionality altogether.

Thanks.

--
Brian
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: cyphyr on August 03, 2008, 07:23:30 pm
Not a great example below but the easiest way to add water to a planet is to place a terragen sphere in the center of your planet and make its radius the same as your planets. Now just add your watter shader to the sphere and voila! You'll probably have to mess about with the radius of the sphere and height values for the shaders but you get the principle.
Richard
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: zionner on August 05, 2008, 01:26:28 pm
Clever :P
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: rcallicotte on August 06, 2008, 07:56:12 am
Great idea, Cyphyr!!
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: sjefen on August 06, 2008, 08:57:00 am
I really hope Planetside make a new planet surface shader. I thought it was a brilliant option.

- Terje
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: rcallicotte on August 06, 2008, 09:14:40 am
What I've read here is that the planet shader won't be resurrected.
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: zionner on August 06, 2008, 09:27:15 am
Quote from: sjefen on August 06, 2008, 08:57:00 am
I really hope Planetside make a new planet surface shader. I thought it was a brilliant option.

- Terje


Sadly Cailco is correct..:(
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: rcallicotte on August 06, 2008, 12:31:03 pm
Fortunately, some have spent extensive time building planets without the planet shader and the idea about the water by cyphyr above is yet one more thing we can do. 
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: sjefen on August 06, 2008, 08:00:30 pm
Quote from: calico on August 06, 2008, 09:14:40 am
What I've read here is that the planet shader won't be resurrected.


But with this they mean they will not work more on the current Planet Surface Shader. Right?
So they can make something new to replace it. Something better :P

- Terje
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: dandelO on August 06, 2008, 09:05:35 pm
QuoteSo they can make something new to replace it. Something better


Yup, and they have, they're called 'surface shaders' ;)
Title: Re: Planet Surface Shader Missing in 1.9.99.1?
Post by: Oshyan on August 12, 2008, 02:34:17 am
I have to believe that what you guys are talking about is the *potential* of the Planetary Surface Shader as the shader itself, in its current form, is extremely limited and difficult to use. It was removed because it was not of a great deal of *practical* use, and would have been more difficult to fix even to work in its current, limited form, than would have been worth the development time, let alone expanding and improving it.

Of course the idea is great, but the reason we have not yet replaced it with something better is that it's extremely difficult to create a system for this purpose which is both realistic and versatile. Hopefully we will be able to work on something more useful in this area in the future, but it would really just be a convenience as the existing functionality is capable of making very realistic complete planets with reasonable effort. This is another reason why priority is low on development in this area - the existing solutions, while not convenient or easy, are effective and extremely versatile.

- Oshyan