Has anyone seen any screenshots of the new Vue 7 spectral atmospheres 2? It's being shown at Siggraph since yesterday.
Someone at renderosity said the following quote: "Looks like Vue's cloud system will finally rival TG2's with Spectral Atmospheres 2 :-)".
So i'm intrigued to see how they compare, the current vue clouds are pants compared to TG2 :)
Only other info in that thread is:-
"The water editor will make foamy shores and waves in a click of the mouse. Spectral 2 clouds will make you cry they look so beautiful."
I have looked all over and i have not seen anything yet. Hopefully at the end of today we will see more examples. I'd be impressed if there clouds were anything near TG2s clouds. The water editor, well we will see. ;D
no i dont think vue could match terragens clouds either terragen 2 just looks so real the lighting is so much better in terragen 2 than in vue vue renders just look so hazy and crappy
I almost always get that cartoony feel with Vue renders. There are very few good looking Vue renders and most of those that are has a lot of postwork to them. I've always wanted a 3d landscape software, but Vue was never an option for me cause of this, but when I saw the first images of Terragen 2 I was sold.
I haven't seen anything from Vue 7 yet so I will not judge it, but I'll say I am very, very sceptical.
- Terje
I agree. Clouds in Vue look to soft like a overly smooth whip cream with simple edges. There is no true billowy detail nor any good internal shadows or complex light scattering so the clouds look like glorified Bryce volumetrics at best. The lighting in Vue is mirky like a greyish film on a lens if this is the best way to describe it. True that some Vue renders can become sun-lit bright but still, there is something about the lack of depth for distance (Lack of global atmospherics perhaps) and the light on a large scale just looks unconvincing overall. Maybe it's like a oil painting is what Vue reminds of.
Vue handles atmospherics differently than TG2. Vue is more like Bryce on steriods, and handles the scene locally (as did Bryce). TG2 handles the scene globally. So on a macro scale, TG2 "should" have more realistic lighting and structure...its just a matter of learning how to bring this out.
I think Vue's strengths are its procedural vegetation system (I really hope TG2 has this one day), and there are some aspects of its renderer (GI effects) that I like, though its now not much better than TG2's, if at all.
Its kinda funny, but I spoke with one of the Vue rep's at Siggraph last year, and when he asked which app I used most, I told him TG2 and showed him some of the images I'd done in a portfolio I was carrying. He then stated something like "yea, the clouds and atmospherics in TG2 are far superior to Vue - but don't mention I said that."
I can't wait to see what Vue 7 can actually do, including terrain.
@moodflow - But, you just mentioned it. Arrghhh!!! ;D
Quote from: calico on August 14, 2008, 10:09:08 AM
I can't wait to see what Vue 7 can actually do, including terrain.
@moodflow - But, you just mentioned it. Arrghhh!!! ;D
In my opinion, unless Vue adopts a node based global procedural system, it is still inferior to TG2, in effect. However, that doesn't mean Vue's terrains can't look really nice or even better than TG2's.
QuoteIn my opinion, unless Vue adopts a node based global procedural system, it is still inferior to TG2, in effect. However, that doesn't mean Vue's terrains can't look really nice or even better than TG2's.
Most of Vue's stuff is based on nodes,
I think Vue's spectral atmosphere system 1 is superior to Terragen's :P but the clouds are really messed up, from the beginning they could have made them in the only 'real' billowy fashion deserving the name c.l.o.u.d.
Terragen2 clouds suck because they aren't shadowed properly, -> meaning in the shadows there is still bump seen, while in reality, there isn't.
If you know how to use Vue6 imo, you can make even more realistic looking terrains by lighting base.
yeah sure terragens clouds really suck ::)
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4661.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4661.0)
Quote from: Xpleet on August 16, 2008, 12:25:31 AM
Most of Vue's stuff is based on nodes,
I think Vue's spectral atmosphere system 1 is superior to Terragen's :P but the clouds are really messed up, from the beginning they could have made them in the only 'real' billowy fashion deserving the name c.l.o.u.d.
Terragen2 clouds suck because they aren't shadowed properly, -> meaning in the shadows there is still bump seen, while in reality, there isn't.
If you know how to use Vue6 imo, you can make even more realistic looking terrains by lighting base.
You did not just say all that. :-\
I have been spending years taking pictures of all sorts of clouds and i have seen raised parts in the shaded areas of the clouds, not all are like that but it depends on the amount of cloud convection depth, how dark the shadows are in terms of overall cloud thickness and angle of the sun.
I have yet to see terrain detail in Vue that rivals TG2s more rigid sub-divided micro-details.
Explaine to me how a sky dome atmosphere system in Vue and flat ground plane outweighs a global atmosphere system. I'd think the way light interacts with a globally-based curved terrain and the objects on it that this alone would make for a better more life like outcome.
yeah vues terrain is no way near terragen's the only good stuff i saw was from pirates of the caribbean and that was all integrated with the highend application
imagine what terragen could do if it was integrated with maya xsi or max................... i dread to think what would happen to eon if it became a possibility............. !
lol I think xpleet was just joking.
Vue has lots of nice features, the procedural plant system for starters. Also a lot of people complain about vue renderer but I think it can create some nice images if your not looking for realism. For instance I love the images this guy creates with vue - http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/browse.php?user_id=395762 but then these don't need to look realistic.
But if your just talking about realism and not just nice art, then Terragen wins hands down in my opinion. After all I believe planetsides main aim for tg2 is for it create realistic landscapes. Vue has the benefit of being able to generate unique plants/trees for populations while terragen has to make do with just rotating the same model, but the terragen atmosphere and terrain are far superior.
Quote from: reck on August 16, 2008, 05:57:27 AM
lol I think xpleet was just joking.
Well, if that was the case then perhaps i am too much of an old clam for my age. ;D
Quote from: Christopher on August 16, 2008, 06:39:06 AM
Quote from: reck on August 16, 2008, 05:57:27 AM
lol I think xpleet was just joking.
Well, if that was the case then perhaps i am too much of an old clam for my age. ;D
Well I don't know, that's just how I took it. Unless he has seen some images that none of us have seen how can he be being serious.
Tiny info.
"I had the chance to attend Siggraph 08 yesterday. E-on software showed Vue 7, and will be released late this year.
One of the mayor improvements is the direct control over oceans without using the function editor. When you create an ocean and a terrain is also created, the program will notice the interaction between land and water, creating foamy shore lines and white caps. A new dialog window will allow you to control the amount of withe caps, shore line foam and water turbulence among other things.
Spectral atmospheres is another improvement. Clouds look more real than ever due to better use of transparency and textures.
Also, render speed was improved. According to e-on software developers, it will render scenes up to 4 times faster than Vue 6.
Vue 6 Xtreme was another mayor improvement. Vue 7 menus will be part of Maya, 3DSMax, XSI, C4D and Lightwave; this will eliminate the need to switch between applications and will allow the artist to access all of Vue's tools from the host application."
Quote from: Xpleet on August 16, 2008, 12:25:31 AM
Terragen2 clouds suck because they aren't shadowed properly, -> meaning in the shadows there is still bump seen, while in reality, there isn't.
Mmmm. I think you'll find that if you play with the settings a bit more you can get exactly what you're talking about in TG.
Quote from: JimB on August 16, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
Quote from: Xpleet on August 16, 2008, 12:25:31 AM
Terragen2 clouds suck because they aren't shadowed properly, -> meaning in the shadows there is still bump seen, while in reality, there isn't.
Mmmm. I think you'll find that if you play with the settings a bit more you can get exactly what you're talking about in TG.
I understand what Xpleet is trying to say here. It would be nice to have a option that make the details not visible on the clouds where there are shadows. I've been trying to get this result for a very long time now, but with no luck. I'm not saying it's not possible, but if it is it's very hard and a option like this would be more then welcome.
Here are some images for better understanding. If you look inside the clouds there are very few details seen.
http://www2.lib.uchicago.edu/~dean/blog/cumulonimbus.jpg (http://www2.lib.uchicago.edu/~dean/blog/cumulonimbus.jpg)
http://www.maltaweather.info/05_cunim_city.jpg (http://www.maltaweather.info/05_cunim_city.jpg)- Terje
Ok firstoff i don't use inbuilt terraingens at all, that sucks too :)
i use imported heightfields because you don't need to see how the earth rounds up beyond the horrizon ::) but you want a nice "scene" which is what Vue is for.
Actually Vue has a planetary system aswell, and so is the atmosphere but not an option for a global terrain which i find useless unless someone likes to do a clipless animation.
In other wrods, no i don't think that Vue's atmosphere is inferior, in fact I think the haze and fog system is better than Tg2's :)
I'm not defending anything i'm just clearing up the false-jabber about Vue and what it isn't
E-on have recognized that their clouds suck because they are blurry and don't have the billowy look of real clouds, but sometimes Vue clouds can look very realistic when they have low edge-bias sometimes in the mid evening, especially the cloudfade in the distance is a very nice feat.
Quote from: sjefen on August 16, 2008, 02:00:37 PM
Quote from: JimB on August 16, 2008, 12:43:33 PM
Quote from: Xpleet on August 16, 2008, 12:25:31 AM
Terragen2 clouds suck because they aren't shadowed properly, -> meaning in the shadows there is still bump seen, while in reality, there isn't.
Mmmm. I think you'll find that if you play with the settings a bit more you can get exactly what you're talking about in TG.
I understand what Xpleet is trying to say here. It would be nice to have a option that make the details not visible on the clouds where there are shadows. I've been trying to get this result for a very long time now, but with no luck. I'm not saying it's not possible, but if it is it's very hard and a option like this would be more then welcome.
Here are some images for better understanding. If you look inside the clouds there are very few details seen.
http://www2.lib.uchicago.edu/~dean/blog/cumulonimbus.jpg (http://www2.lib.uchicago.edu/~dean/blog/cumulonimbus.jpg)
http://www.maltaweather.info/05_cunim_city.jpg (http://www.maltaweather.info/05_cunim_city.jpg)
- Terje
I'll take back what I said here. I have figured it out :P
- Terje
Quote from: Xpleet on August 16, 2008, 02:07:18 PM
Ok firstoff i don't use inbuilt terraingens at all, that sucks too :)
i use imported heightfields because you don't need to see how the earth rounds up beyond the horrizon ::) but you want a nice "scene" which is what Vue is for.
Actually Vue has a planetary system aswell, and so is the atmosphere but not an option for a global terrain which i find useless unless someone likes to do a clipless animation.
In other wrods, no i don't think that Vue's atmosphere is inferior, in fact I think the haze and fog system is better than Tg2's :)
I'm not defending anything i'm just clearing up the false-jabber about Vue and what it isn't
E-on have recognized that their clouds suck because they are blurry and don't have the billowy look of real clouds, but sometimes Vue clouds can look very realistic when they have low edge-bias sometimes in the mid evening, especially the cloudfade in the distance is a very nice feat.
Vue planetary system? The atmosphere is a one-sided sky dome, there is nothing global about it. The haze and fog in Vue may look good at times but i see to many users using mass amounts of backround haze and Vue looks like where i live, ugly air and never a clear day. You know the haze in TG2 can be made to look like Vue's haze where it is thick and dark. Something i see in Vue all of the time.
I have never seen a Vue cloud that told me, hey that looks real and i have been looking at Vue 6's clouds ever since the day Vue 6 made it's debut. The meta clouds are the most versatile and they still look mediocre at best. Low edge-bias is possible in TG2 as well, i guess it's just not done a lot here. Who says that clouds can not have a nice fade in TG2?
My only reasons for not using TG2 at the moment are the following:
My machine is 3 years old so forget it. :'(
You can't paint terrains or objects.
Lack of object/texture support.
Math Nodes vs Make Hills with Valley.
Lacking many types of erosion and River Networks.
Needs a rock tool.
Needs more camera types and lenses.
No DOF.
No has ever been able to make cresting waves.
Needs a simple dynamic particle engine.
Have not seen true cirrus clouds or thunder heads.
Other then that i like TG2 for what it is. It's a worthy effort. I might come back to TG if these features are implemented in a few years but if not well i am way to limited as an artist and i'll continue to use something else which more then likely will be a combination of software. Please don't tell me it's the artist and not the tools crap. It's both. Lack of tools can limit use and when use is limited, an artist can only stretch so much. Maybe i'll take up matte painting. ;D
Is this genuinely vue 7?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8mLPEsUYiM
Quote from: reck on August 22, 2008, 05:55:34 PM
Is this genuinely vue 7?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C8mLPEsUYiM
i think it is a bit of both (vue 6 and vue 7) the starting cloud shot i think is vue 7 because they look very realistic and some shots such as the tropical island shot and the second to last snow mountain shot are from vue 7 i have saw the same shot without the clouds which was rendered in vue 6 a couple of years ago but this new one with the clouds looks way more realistic also the shot when the camera flys over the icy land looks like vue 7 as well :)
impressive video Oo
Very impressive video. Looks fantastic.
Very nice. Anyone find a higher-quality one to see more details?
Some of the clouds in the video (especially during the jet-engine scene) really don't compare with Terragen's, though - some of them look quite good, though.
Quote from: old_blaggard on August 23, 2008, 06:03:15 PM
Very nice. Anyone find a higher-quality one to see more details?
No not yet, although you can select the "watch in high quality" setting in the link above.
To my knowledge, the real big news for version 7 is a through integration of the xtream edition in the hosting application and probably significant improvement in radiosity handling (i.e. targetting the architectural rendering market).
For general users, there should be improvements in clouds (the talks about particle system were just daydreams), non-flat leaves in SolidGrowth plants, automatic foam generation where liquids hit the ground, improvements in terrains and ecosystems and so on.
In other words, if you are an architect, surely something to have a hard look at, otherwise an upgrade much less earth shaking w.r.t. the 5->6 jump.
E-On has been strangely silent (up to a couple of hours ago their website was still saying that they would demonstrate 7 at Siggraph), no renders have surfaced... actually, there are more evidences of the existence of Bigfoots than of Vue7 ;D.
Bye!!!
The vast majority of that V7 video seems to be old material, which is odd. See the Vue 6.5 video here: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_6_infinite/v6i_video_layout.php The bit at the beginning does look fairly nice though. I'm interested to see more.
- Oshyan
The devil bites me if this video is genuine.
You can not tell it from the clouds, i think they could be reproducable in Vue6, notice how the light comes from front or back, it's a trick of hiding detail that isn't there in Vue clouds. In the scene with the ship you see how Vue clouds look generally.
All of the content is reproducable in Vue6 without a problem.
I think the video is genuine, they just don't have a lot to show yet. It's posted by "eonsoftware" and does seem to include some new/updated scenes/footage. Still the lack of info is surprising judging from recent history.
- Oshyan
I also think it's real.
Quote from: Xpleet on August 28, 2008, 01:38:01 AM
...it's a trick of hiding detail that isn't there in Vue clouds.
I assume you are still talking about the details in the shadow you see in the clouds from Terragen. If so.. I just want to say there is one slider in Terragen that make them go away :)
Quote from: Xpleet on August 28, 2008, 01:38:01 AM
...All of the content is reproducable in Vue6 without a problem.
I don't belive that. I want to see those clouds in the beginning of the movie reproduced with Vue 6.
- Terje
QuoteI assume you are still talking about the details in the shadow you see in the clouds from Terragen. If so.. I just want to say there is one slider in Terragen that make them go away Smiley
No. What I meant was that in real clouds there is no detail in the shadows, so when you let the light hit from infront of the camera, your rendered clouds will mainly be shadows with some sharp edges highlighted. That way you can hide detail that isn't there!
QuoteI don't belive that. I want to see those clouds in the beginning of the movie reproduced with Vue 6.
Not so fast fellah. Everything can be done with a considerable effort in Vue6.
Here are some Vue 'Metaclouds' I just rendered, which are alternative spheric cloudsets of 10-300 spheres each.. I could sure reproduce the clouds from the Vue vid if I really wanted.
took me about 10 mins to set it up and 27 more to render.
Vue(6) can do..but you have to do it right :P
The edges are to fuzzy and there needs to be a smaller scale more defined fractal noise breakup along those edges. Overall the clouds could look sharper. Still, not bad at all. :) What are your settings?
Quote from: Confusoid on September 05, 2008, 06:40:35 PM
The edges are to fuzzy and there needs to be a smaller scale more defined fractal noise breakup along those edges. Overall the clouds could look sharper. Still, not bad at all. :) What are your settings?
You are aware that this is Vue6 now is it? Lol i hope you are.
I will soon makes these Metaclouds materials available on my Deviantart site.
Basically with these clouds I have gone "where no vue-man has gone before".
Yes. Ofcourse. :)
I'll take a look at your deviantart page when i get the chance. ;D
@Xpleet - Great job! I love these clouds.
Quote from: calico on September 05, 2008, 10:05:56 PM
@Xpleet - Great job! I love these clouds.
thank you very much :)
_______________
for now I have uploaded them on http://rapidshare.com/files/142901533/Billowy_Metaclouds.mat.html
and once I get more experience with them i will upload the mat(s) on my dev-page.
i cant see your image it just says direct uploading no hotlinking
Got your file and did a quick render, well 2hrs but i had radiosity and volumetric lighting all the way up on my single core machine which is not bad render time wise. Anyways, i just placed a quick procedural terrain and texture in so that the metacloud stands out more here. Don't mind the pattern crap on the terrain, it's fixable. Who would have thought metaclouds could look this good just by moving the roughness slider all the way down. I'd always have it all the way up. LOL. Only trouble is when i try to change the metacloud settings vue freezes up on me and i have to shut down vue. :( More tests must be done. :)
hehe Vue testing renders on Planetside's forum... the world goes crazy...
edit : i don't want to be harsh but these clouds don't look better than beginner's clouds on TG2...
Quote from: Confusoid on September 06, 2008, 03:47:23 AM
Got your file and did a quick render, well 2hrs but i had radiosity and volumetric lighting all the way up on my single core machine which is not bad render time wise. Anyways, i just placed a quick procedural terrain and texture in so that the metacloud stands out more here. Don't mind the pattern crap on the terrain, it's fixable. Who would have thought metaclouds could look this good just by moving the roughness slider all the way down. I'd always have it all the way up. LOL. Only trouble is when i try to change the metacloud settings vue freezes up on me and i have to shut down vue. :( More tests must be done. :)
This is not just because roughness is away (which is really a cheap noise-add button) but look at the Density distribution tab, you can make your own cloudlook there :P. I just combined the same fractal on different scales like TG does and voila.
Why don't you post this or others pics in my thread about the new cloud idea at Renderosity?
Quotei don't want to be harsh but these clouds don't look better than beginner's clouds on TG2...
I think they look like dust-storms lol , I wish I could get them just a little more roundish although the roundups should be done by the spheres of the metaclouds, but also much really depends on the lighting.
So far only 1 picture of Terragen clouds has amazed me from lighting-base , the others just look abstract and unreal to my eye, but the shapes are really good.
(http://icantseeyourimageitjustsaysdirectuploadingnohotlinking)
fixed
if you think TG2's clouds are looking abstract, i suggest you to look at Luc Bianco's website...
Vue6 is an excellent software and can manage objects with astonishing effectiveness compared to TG2 but if you like realistic clouds i suggest you to throw Vue6 in the trashcan and go back to tg2 ^^
Vue's clouds look real, but the internal lighting isn't the same as TG2's. Nevertheless, a huge chasm appears between what we know about using that internal lighting and how it actually works. Maybe Vue's approach of 'simple is better' is the better approach.
If we get more feedback about clouds and their settings in TG2's forum, then maybe the jury won't be out so long.
Quote from: calico on September 06, 2008, 11:59:59 AM
Vue's clouds look real, but the internal lighting isn't the same as TG2's. Nevertheless, a huge chasm appears between what we know about using that internal lighting and how it actually works. Maybe Vue's approach of 'simple is better' is the better approach.
If we get more feedback about clouds and their settings in TG2's forum, then maybe the jury won't be out so long.
I agree, there's something about the Vue clouds that makes them superior(i think it's a sort of natural edge softness), but until now the shape was really insufficient :P. From what I've seen and heard fluffy Terragen clouds can take a lot of time to render.
Sometimes when I look in the sky I go like "Oh, Vue clouds today!" but never do those floaters remind me of TG2 clouds :(
I'm gonna make some tests with my clouds soon, lighting them up with point-lights to give the effect of smoke and explosion :-D
can i see examples of these clouds ?
i mean, i truely think Vue clouds sucks, and you tell that they are better than TG2's...
so... can you show me better clouds than that :
http://lucbianco.free.fr/2bgal/img/T2_2007/TGD822.jpg
http://lucbianco.free.fr/2bgal/img/T2_2007/TGD823.jpg
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_161/file_1608089.jpg
http://www.rendus3d.com/data/501/en_mer.jpg
http://www.planetside.co.uk/gallery/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=481&g2_serialNumber=2
believe me i can go on for hours... :D
I have to agree with Seth here. I owned Vue 6 for a while but ended up selling it since it couldn't compete with TG2 when it came to macro scene setup and lighting/clouds.
Vue definitely has its place and excels in "stage" style setup of scenes where you place items exactly where you want. Alot of people prefer the method of creation. And at this time, I think Vue's foliage is the best of any app at this time, though TG2 is catching up quickly.
For me, TG2 wins on overall features and usability.
Hahaha. This is getting really funny.
I think we should start a thread: Vue Clouds vs. Terragen Clouds.
- Terje
Quote from: moodflow on September 06, 2008, 05:06:02 PM
...And at this time, I think Vue's foliage is the best of any app at this time, though TG2 is catching up quickly....
Remember Terragens foliage is not really anything to do with Terragen itself, its only imported models after all. Its only since Terragen 2 has been out that it has been practical to make high detail models of trees and other growing thangs to be rendered in VAST numbers. I predict huge advances in the models that will be available to render within Terragen in the coming months/years.
Richard
I can't say I'm sold. I've been completely dedicating myself to understanding TG2 clouds for 2 months and I think we either need clearer documentation (ETC.) from Planetside about the clouds or there is something seriously lacking in the way things work.
Vue clouds on the other hand are maybe less "realistic" than TG2, but I'm not sure people in the movie theatre care. That's all this software is mostly good for - media reproduction. But, I don't know Vue...just going by what I see.
In other words, TG2 needs better documentation or something needs to be changed so making clouds is more understandable for the average technical person in the interface. Right now, it isn't there and takes much more time to figure out than it should. Also, the render times with these clouds are monsters.
Not complaining. I own TG2 and don't own (nor plan to own) Vue...right now.
Quote from: calico on September 07, 2008, 03:54:26 PM
Vue clouds on the other hand are maybe less "realistic" than TG2, but I'm not sure people in the movie theatre care.
It's the Directors, Producers and VFX Supervisors (including the Studio VFX heads) who matter, not the audience ;) If the first four don't like it (depending on the contracts), it gets changed or redone.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/event/NewsSiggraph2008.php
When I see the following alongside what's coming, I wonder what difference it makes whether I can see the .1 fractals in a TG2 masterpiece.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2008/images/20831.jpg (Vue 6)
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/showcase/competition/2008/images/20692.jpg (Vue 6)
[edit - above links fixed]
the third video on your first link (the only one that works on my computer) is amazing !!!
the render is truely good from what i can see...
the way objects are placed, modified... that's a point TG2 must improve !
i love the way we can see the sun moving... the wind in the trees...
i am sure TG2 can be as good perhaps even better but, the render time and the objects placement makes it more difficult... and if you want to do animation with our render time... it's almost impossible...
anyway, i think it is very good that VUE7 is coming out, maybe it will bring some new ideas to the developpers...
Quote from: seth93 on September 09, 2008, 01:46:47 PM
the third video on your first link (the only one that works on my computer) is amazing !!!
the render is truely good from what i can see...
the way objects are placed, modified... that's a point TG2 must improve !
i love the way we can see the sun moving... the wind in the trees...
i am sure TG2 can be as good perhaps even better but, the render time and the objects placement makes it more difficult... and if you want to do animation with our render time... it's almost impossible...
anyway, i think it is very good that VUE7 is coming out, maybe it will bring some new ideas to the developpers...
What you saw in that third movie is 3ds max and not Vue.
Vue xStream is like Vue and also a plugin for some of the other big 3d softwares. It makes it possible to use some of the functions from Vue inside your favorite 3d software (3ds max in this case). It looks like the only Vue thing in that movie was the trees. The render is also mental ray.
- Terje
ooooh ok <blush>
daaamn need to learn 3Ds Max too !!! ;D
I know 3ds max pretty well. I went to school so I could learn it.
I always wanted it, but the price tag is just ridiculous. Especially here in Europe.
- Terje
Quote from: seth93 on September 09, 2008, 04:49:36 PM
ooooh ok <blush>
daaamn need to learn 3Ds Max too !!! ;D
It was not purely 3DsMax, totally wrong.
Sunset, tree wind etc. are all Vue features and probably most Siggraph content is the promo-work of an experienced e-onartist work but which could be done in Vue6 as easy. 80% you see is Vue6 and even Vue5. Xstream works in a way that Vue objects are rendered by Vue's engine and Max objects by Max' engine.
DON'T GET HYPED!
Many ppl underestimate Vue6 (especially by what they see on renderosity pics) and Vue7 is but an addition of handy features to Vue6. I'd say it's actually more advanced than TG2.
Spectral Atmospheres 2 is having an additional sharpness slider and feathering slider for the clouds, not much additional info and that makes me really wonder wether they actually have added much more than that to V7-Infinite.
Quote from: Xpleet on September 09, 2008, 05:04:40 PM
Quote from: seth93 on September 09, 2008, 04:49:36 PM
ooooh ok <blush>
daaamn need to learn 3Ds Max too !!! ;D
It was not purely 3DsMax, totally wrong.
Sunset, tree wind etc. are all Vue features and probably most Siggraph content is the promo-work of an experienced e-onartist work but which could be done in Vue6 as easy. 80% you see is Vue6 and even Vue5. Xstream works in a way that Vue objects are rendered by Vue's engine and Max objects by Max' engine.
DON'T GET HYPED!
Many ppl underestimate Vue6 (especially by what they see on renderosity pics) and Vue7 is but an addition of handy features to Vue6. I'd say it's actually more advanced than TG2.
Spectral Atmospheres 2 is having an additional sharpness slider and feathering slider for the clouds, not much additional info and that makes me really wonder wether they actually have added much more than that to V7-Infinite.
I did not say it was purely 3ds max. I said 3ds max with some of the Vue features. I can see he hits something at the top of 3ds max that says Vue something then he add some trees.
The sunset is not Vue at all. It is the Mental Ray Sun & Sky system.
Also... when it renders, it looks like Mental Ray is taking care of everything, but that I don't know for sure. It renders a little funny with the last render. I'm just a little curious tho. How does Mental Ray know how to put the light and shadows from the trees if it is Vue rendering them?
To me it looks like the only Vue thing in that video is the trees and the wind in them, the background terrain and
maybe Vue is rendering the trees.
- Terje
Animation looks easier in Vue than TG2, but that's maybe because the animation module still needs a lot of presentation, etc. in TG2.
But, anyway, I liked those two images. Really nice work.
Speaking of oceans - http://www.franticfilms.com/videos/flood_surf/flood_surf_demo_green_web.mov
There's a cool feature in Vue with which you can make realistic looking waves (sub surface scattering I guess TG2 has too lol), where waves become thin at the top, the lighting penetrates and they stand out.
I made a lil demonstrative pic http://rocky1990.deviantart.com/art/water-demonstration-95224398
I should have used more green tho :(
Does anyone know of any or can anyone post any stills of these clouds?
I saw the Vue 7 video, but as others have pointed out, this appears to be mostly Vue 6, and maybe even some Vue 5. It looks great, but doesn't look like it would be 'usable' in a movie without severe post-processing.
Quote from: moodflow on September 11, 2008, 03:39:38 PM
doesn't look like it would be 'usable' in a movie without severe post-processing.
Are you kidding? To me those "Vue7" sponsored clouds they look more movie-ready than any TG clouds I've seen lol. I say it again, they can be reproduced in Vue6, it is merely e-on-artwork 'featuring' Vue7.
Here are some shots of good clouds by good Vue-men
Artur Rosa , one of the best I've seen at Renderosity.
http://renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1743914
http://renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1735476&member
http://renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1727525&member
those are actually driven by a single fractal node he told me, so you guess the potential.
http://renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1740591 by Merlin Studios
Some people seem to need a 'proof' that Vue-can-do, but as I said before Vue6 doesn't have the amount of dedicated people that TG2 has..
Xpleet, thanks. These are beautiful.
I'm sure someone here can pick them apart, but these look believable. What do you mean about the Vue 6 group not having as many dedicated folks? I'm surprised, since Vue 6 seems so much more commercialized.
Quote from: calico on September 11, 2008, 04:10:45 PM
Xpleet, thanks. These are beautiful.
I'm sure someone here can pick them apart, but these look believable. What do you mean about the Vue 6 group not having as many dedicated folks? I'm surprised, since Vue 6 seems so much more commercialized.
I meant, that there are not so many people doing indepth studies to the mechanics of Vue and rather do things the simple (mediocre) way.
in these images, i don't think the clouds are the best part of the all render... and even if they are good, they are not better than TG2's and i still prefer the look of the renders i linked before.
sorry if it sounds stubborn ^^
This is definitely in the domain of "eye of the beholder". Those images look good, but to me, the clouds don't look "amazing". TG2 is fully capable of those types of clouds in my opinion.
I'd love to see the Vue 7 clouds. Hopefully we'll have some pics of these soon.
I could sit down and develope the thunderhead-type clouds that we see in TG2 so often in Vue (although not procedural yet) from Spheres or Rocks with the help of materials and sub surface scattering. They will not be procedural but who cares? I have too much time lol.
Quote from: Xpleet on September 11, 2008, 03:55:44 PM
...Some people seem to need a 'proof' that Vue-can-do
Of course we need proof. How else are we gonna know it can actually do it ;)
- Terje
I agree with Terge. That's the only reason I bought TG2 - what someone else had already done.
If you visit the website http://www.vue7.com/ you can see a first render of the new Spectral Clouds 2. It's hard to tell how much detail there's really in there, the image is to small for that. But IMO it's already a big improvement over the Vue 6 clouds. Whether it is as good as TG2 remains to be seen, though.
Here is another possible image link (the above looks nice, though I think TG2 can do the same)
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/event/NewsSiggraph2008.php
The lighting looks good. Can't wait to see what this will do.
Quote from: Bluestorm on October 13, 2008, 02:13:54 PM
If you visit the website http://www.vue7.com/ you can see a first render of the new Spectral Clouds 2. It's hard to tell how much detail there's really in there, the image is to small for that. But IMO it's already a big improvement over the Vue 6 clouds. Whether it is as good as TG2 remains to be seen, though.
Looking at that image, Calico, I feel that the clouds themselves aren't rendered as nicely, but the actual noise function for them is better than that in most TG2 clouds that I've seen.
O_B, maybe you're right. I can't tell by this one image...of course. But, when we get a chance to see more, I hope we can look more closely. I'm thinking it might look pretty good if it was part of an animation.
Vue's spectral atmosphere model is just different. It's hard to judge it's quality compared to TG2. It's different in approach and also in scale. TG tries to use real world values while Vue emphasizes on the overall effect, not the real world correctness. Vue renders cumulus clouds at ~200m with depth at ~500m and is a more hybrid rendering engine than TG.
TG is mainly procedural software while Vue uses many techniques of setting scene up and doing the final renders (DOF for example - distributed ray-tracing or hybrid 2.5d).
I've played with Vue for some time and I was quite happy with results, but as someone stated before - Vue is designed more for short, specific scenes, not necessarily real if you look at them from project point of view.
As for the clouds take a look at some of my works:
http://porcupinefloyd.deviantart.com/art/The-Ultimate-Art-85997441
http://porcupinefloyd.deviantart.com/art/Fire-Flies-and-Empty-Skies-89178800
or just a "Vue" gallery - http://porcupinefloyd.deviantart.com/gallery/#Vue
They are wispy at the edges but still have some depth and internal shadows. A different approach to rendering skies leads to different effects.
Quote from: PorcupineFloyd on October 14, 2008, 04:20:55 PM
Vue's spectral atmosphere model is just different. It's hard to judge it's quality compared to TG2. It's different in approach and also in scale. TG tries to use real world values while Vue emphasizes on the overall effect, not the real world correctness. Vue renders cumulus clouds at ~200m with depth at ~500m and is a more hybrid rendering engine than TG.
Vue atmospheres have a setting called Aerial Perspective which is by default set to 10. This means that your 200m/500m cloud behaves as if it was 2km high/5km thick, which are resonable values for cumuluses.
In Vue everything is "small": if you want to work with realistic sizes, set Aerial Perspective to 1 and enlarge everything appropriately (e.g. the defualt 256x256 terrain is 25.6 x 25.6... METERS!).
Bye!!!
@PorcupineFloyd - Thanks for letting us in on your art and ideas about Vue clouds. I can't wait to see what Vue 7 will bring.
@Latego - Good to understand. Thanks.
Yes, Aerial Perspective can be tweaked and therefore allows user to literally fake different worlds. So, it's a hybrid approach to rendering - you can make wide landscapes and very small, one "shot" oriented renders.
And after working for some time with TG2 I have a feeling that this software is trying to be more physically correct and is not only oriented on the final effect of a render, but also on a physical correctness of a scene itself.
In my opinion both programs are good for rendering purposes but they are let's say "crafted" from a different approach.
Calico, no problem - I'm always happy to share and to evolve by sharing ideas and effects with others :) I'm also waiting for Vue 7 but now I'm oriented on TG2.
Just give me Vue like object positioning tools in TG2 and I'm sold forever ;-)
Yes! And clouds need a touch or two.
Quote from: PorcupineFloyd on October 15, 2008, 12:43:51 PM
Just give me Vue like object positioning tools in TG2 and I'm sold forever ;-)
here are a couple of shots from vue 7 from the eon newsletter i get
(http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/newsletter/101708/ecopaint-dax_sha.jpg)
(http://www.e-onsoftware.com/about/newsletter/101708/Pascal_Peak.jpg)
they look pretty awesome i admit the clouds in the second render easily match the clouds of terragen 2's
I got the same newsletter (with pricing) and I'm paying attention.
Quote from: lightning on October 18, 2008, 04:52:47 AM
here are a couple of shots from vue 7 from the eon newsletter i get
they look pretty awesome i admit the clouds in the second render easily match the clouds of terragen 2's
Yes they look pretty damn good and I wouldn't be afraid to bet that the render time is somewhat acceptable too. I'm rendering a TGTP scene with one layer of cumulus and one layer of cirrus. 1680x1050, cropped one 1/4 of the sky and it's been 17 hours so far. Cumulus samples 300, atmo samples 75, soft shadows 1 w/ qlty 16 and render qlty set at .8, GI settings only at 1-2 and blur radius @ default. So roughy 68 hours for the sky only. Vue is looking pretty good I think. ;)
That sharp mountain with clouds image could easily pass as a TG2 image.
Vue 7 is now shipping.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/
There is also information on new features and a comparison chart comparing the different editions.
Some new features
* EcoSystem Generation III
* Scene Graph
* MetaNodes
* High-definition 16 bit data in standard terrains
* Motion blur for wind effects
* Improved depth of field algorithms
* Spectral II Cloud Technology
* Indoor and Outdoor Radiosity
* Loose Tracking and Linking
* Improved SolidGrowth 4
* New Plant Species
* Water Editor
* Real-life camera aberrations
* Clumpy or feathery cloud shapes
* Displacement mapping of infinitely detailed procedural terrains
* Slope dependent bump or displacement mapping
* "Foam" output in Open Ocean node
* Faster Rendering
* Improved Anti-aliasing
* New OpenGL Engine
* Macro Automation
* Procedural Terrain Style Presets
* Collada File Import
* Enable or disable lights with one click
* 3Dconnexion range of 3D navigation controls
* High precision animation curve control
* Separate animation range and render range
* Rename individual render passes
* Disable/bypass Visual Browsers
* Intelligent re-titling of files
* New Software Architecture
* Bucket Rendering
* Redesigned Network Services
* New License Server
* Advanced Support Options
* Run several instances of Vue simultaneously
* Embedded error reporting
* Easily change the location of your content folder after installation
* Disable abort render on click
* Disable/customize frame padding
* Content files accessible from all system accounts
Something seems strange though. Why haven't we been bombarded with amazing new images and animations from this new version, both when it was first announced and now when released? I would have thought they would have had a demo reel or something out promoting it. Wonder what the reason is for the lack of images?
There are some new images provided if you read the new features.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/?page=1 (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/?page=1)
- Terje
Thanks reck and Terje. I'm going to pay attention. I'm not sure how much I want to learn a new system. But, I might be convinced.
this render could pass for a Terragen 2 render
(http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/images/terrain-robert-czarny.jpg)
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/tutorials/?page=16&cf=%2Fproducts%2Fvue%2Fvue_7_infinite%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3D2
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Quote from: calico on November 04, 2008, 04:23:23 PM
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/tutorials/?page=16&cf=%2Fproducts%2Fvue%2Fvue_7_infinite%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3D2
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Yeah, but that's Vue 5.
Just got an email from e-on. Infinite and Xtreme are now shipping
Release Schedule
Vue 7 xStream and Vue 7 Infinite are available for purchase as of today!
You can choose to get your product as a Download, in a DVD case (CD set only, with electronic documentation), or as a full Boxed version (which includes the 630-page printed Reference Manual).
The Free Personal Learning Editions of Vue 7 xStream and Vue 7 Infinite (PLE) will be available shortly.
The Vue 7 line of products for 3D Artists and Small Studios, comprised of Vue 7 Pioneer, Vue 7 Esprit, Vue 7 Pro Studio and Vue 7 Complete, will be released within one month; localized versions (French and German) will follow by the end of this year.
Finally, Ozone 4.0, the atmospheric plugin for 3ds Max, Cinema 4D, Lightwave, Maya and XSI is scheduled for release beginning of 2009.
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/
Pricing is a little odd though. It's £603 for the boxed version but £577 for the DVD... You don't get a box with that? Or not a £26 box ;D
I have to say that the ecosystem and plant support is appealing. I'd love to have some moving trees and some wind interference in TG2...
Vue is looking a bit more impressive now.
However, I still think TG2 is superior in cloud realism, lighting, and terrains/surfacing (though Vue's terrain and surfacing has definitely improved, and is approaching the quality of TG2 in some respects.)
I think Vue is superior to TG2 when it comes to foliage, both with the ecosystem technology and solidgrowth concept (which keeps each instance unique). I'm hoping TG2 features similar options in the future - preferrably procedural foliage.
Did anyone see Vue's new incorporation of a limited node network? Maybe they are seeing the light...
The only reason I don't like Vue is because of its horrible implementation. The design for the UI seems to have been influenced by half of Microsoft Access and half 3ds Max. Some parts even seem artificially complicated to appeal to the fiddly bastards who spend most of their time preying on newbies in Call of Duty, flushing out freshly respawned players with mathematically planned grenade lobs. Terragen has the freedom of the node network while still keeping it so simple that you could train a paraplegic bear to use it in a day.
Quote from: moodflow on November 04, 2008, 05:33:23 PM
Did anyone see Vue's new incorporation of a limited node network? Maybe they are seeing the light...
That caught my eye:
MetaNodes let you group several nodes or links into a single node, known as a MetaNode. MetaNodes will greatly simplify the readability of your graphs by letting you organize your graph into functional modules.TG2 can do that... just create the new nodes in the internal node network! And the Node groups, arranged by colour and able to capture nodes in it is something else that seems to act a bit like the 'organizing your graph into functional modules'.
Planetside was way ahead of e-on with that!
I just got the e-on newsletter, and it had a link to the Vue 7 promotional video: http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/v7i_video_layout.php
Look at those clouds and tell me you don't think those look flat and 'milky', like about the worst 3D clouds we get here. They don't seem to have real depth, more like layers of billboarded images of clouds...
Look at the water and tell me the waves don't look like they came from a 10 year old 3D game...
The only thing that makes the scenes realistic is the moving plants, and those are only visible in animations.
Vue implements this billboard system of rendering. It's bizarre I know. And did you see the bump mapping of the textures on the ground where the troops where walking. Makes rocks look like paper. ;D It's fun to mock.
Did you notice how they used music very similar to Crysis to try to hook in that audience while demonstrating the ecosystem? And they mentioned ecosystem loads of times with slightly different wording. lol.
Allow me to rephrase the different elements portrayed here without the PR.
EcoSystem Technology - trees n stuff
Atmosphere effects - Light
Dynamic Ecosystems - trees n stuff
Spectral 2 clouds - 2D clouds
EcoSystem Painter - placing trees n stuff
Subsurface scattering - Light going through things
Water editor - water
Wind & Breeze effect - animation of trees n stuff
Advanced dynamics - ???? rendering stuff??
Infinite terrains - slightly bigger terrains than 512x512
Light-cloud interaction - you havva da cloud and you havva da light
Dynamic Motion Reaction - you can move the camera
Outdoor Radiosity - Light
Indoor Radiosity - Light indoors
Local wind effects animation of trees n stuff
Heheh, thanks for the recap, PG. There are definitely some nice scenes in there, but I would strongly argue that Vue only really has its ecosystem and its object manipulation going for it. The textures, clouds, water, and terrains that weren't covered in plants looked flat, fake, undetailed, and generally inferior to what is produced in Terragen on a regular basis. If this is a look at the best that Vue has to offer, I can't see why anybody would switch away from Terragen unless they need more advanced vegetation work.
is this Vue clouds or just an image of real clouds mapped into Vue's sky? if it is clouds made by Vue then Vue can easily if not better the clouds of terragen 2
(http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/images/sky-dax_pandhi.jpg)
here is the link
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/?page=3 (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/vue/vue_7_infinite/?page=3)
The clouds at the top of the page are Vue 7 clouds. That is demonstrating the newly implemented indirect illumination and it looks darn good.
Look at the heading "Illumination of clouds" as well with the dark cloudy image to the right. Reminds me of a real thunderous stormy day.
No, it's Vue 7.
Quote from: PorcupineFloyd on November 04, 2008, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: calico on November 04, 2008, 04:23:23 PM
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/tutorials/?page=16&cf=%2Fproducts%2Fvue%2Fvue_7_infinite%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3D2
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Yeah, but that's Vue 5.
By the way, I think TG2 still has the better terrain system, including control and capabilities of various types and variety of terrain. The cloud system in TG2 could use a little work, but still is an out-of-the-box solution (without tweaking, I mean) that is reliable and makes good looking clouds. I'm sticking with TG2...I don't have the money to buy another system. Even if I did, when would I find time for it? LOL :D
yeah i still find terragen has a more realistic render engine than vue i don't know how the hell matt and the planet gang have done it but terragens lighting is just unmatched nothing comes close its so realistic you can see imperfections just like you do in real nature!!!
There are some very nice features in vue, the obvious one being the procedural vegetation with it's unique instances that vary by size, shape and even colour differences. The ability to animate the vegetation so it reacts to wind is also nice. But there were a few other things that caught my eye as well that would be nice to have in TG2 one day, such as -
The animated waves and surf round the island during the animation.
Automated Smart Scattering
Vue will automatically recognize foreign objects, and reduce the presence of EcoSystem items around them.
The single instance tool
This tool turbo-charges the process of placing individual plants, rocks or other objects in your scene. There's no more need to add a tree to the scene, move it to the desired place, then drop it to the ground. Simply point and click, and a new tree is created in that spot, and is automatically dropped to the surface. Of course, when using SolidGrowth plants, each new click generates a different instance.
Affinity and repulsion
Layers in an EcoSystem material can also influence one another. By using the affinity and repulsion parameters, it's possible to define a relationship between two layers. For instance, using affinity, trees in the first layer can affect the distribution of grass in the second layer, so that the grass grows only around the trees.
Enhanced EcoSystem Display
View vegitation by:-
Wireframe boxes
Billboards
Wireframe
Smooth shaded
All that being said when looking at the most important thing, the quality and realisation of the image, TG2 still has the lead for me. Both in terms of landscape and atmosphere/cloud rendering. So at it's core it has the better landscape rendering engine it just needs better and more advanced tools to help create these landscapes which will hopefully come in future versions.
Most things you name there are about vegetation...
TG2 has a great render engine that has to be improved as much as possible in terms of render speed and efficiency.
After that, the Planetside crew have time and resources to work om procedural vegetation.
I believe Terragen will be ahead of Vue for quite a while longer, and take it's lead further ahead as soon as the vegetation is addressed.
I hope you're right, Mohawk.
It is Vue 5 Infinite :)
- Terje
Quote from: calico on November 04, 2008, 11:46:23 PM
No, it's Vue 7.
Quote from: PorcupineFloyd on November 04, 2008, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: calico on November 04, 2008, 04:23:23 PM
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/tutorials/?page=16&cf=%2Fproducts%2Fvue%2Fvue_7_infinite%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3D2
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Yeah, but that's Vue 5.
Do you see the vue_7_infinite in the URL? I don't use Vue, but this link came about by linking to their Vue 7 changes, etc.
Quote from: sjefen on November 05, 2008, 08:50:47 AM
It is Vue 5 Infinite :)
- Terje
Quote from: calico on November 04, 2008, 11:46:23 PM
No, it's Vue 7.
Quote from: PorcupineFloyd on November 04, 2008, 04:33:42 PM
Quote from: calico on November 04, 2008, 04:23:23 PM
http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support/tutorials/?page=16&cf=%2Fproducts%2Fvue%2Fvue_7_infinite%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3D2
Wow. Wow. Wow.
Yeah, but that's Vue 5.
But if you see up in the left corner in the beginning of the movie you can see the name of the software.
- Terje
LOL Thanks Terje. Funny about the link...
Quote from: sjefen on November 05, 2008, 10:06:17 AM
But if you see up in the left corner in the beginning of the movie you can see the name of the software.
- Terje
A quick render of Vue's new Spectral Clouds. Rendertime was about 10 minutes on "Superior". Not too bad, I think ;)
Still needs some tweaking, but overall, I'm quite impressed. :)
Ain't that TG2? Geez it looks like TG2 clouds.
Still looks pretty billboardy. Plus what's with that weird patchy glow?
As I said, it needs tweaking, it's not perfect in any way. I did not change the atmosphere, the lighting or whatever. It was merely a quick test with some slightly edited presets.
And in all honesty, a billboard looks way different.
Bluestorm, when you get a good cloud, would you mind posting the results? This reminds me of TG2, when people first started experimenting, but with possibly greater latitude. But, I'd need to see this in better lighting, etc. If you will...
Yes, I will :). I just posted this picture as a demonstration that a billowy type of cloud is now possible in Vue, too, at least generally. If you want a good looking cloud you need to invest time. I think I'll find more time on the weekend for experimenting. After all, I've had had Vue 7 for half a day now. There's much to be discovered...:)
Quote from: Bluestorm on November 06, 2008, 01:24:54 PM
And in all honesty, a billboard looks way different.
Well actually, it doesn't. A billboard is very flat and has sharp edges. This is very flat and has sharp edges.
PG, this looks nothing like a billboard.
Quote from: PG on November 06, 2008, 03:15:49 PM
Quote from: Bluestorm on November 06, 2008, 01:24:54 PM
And in all honesty, a billboard looks way different.
Well actually, it doesn't. A billboard is very flat and has sharp edges. This is very flat and has sharp edges.
Really? Cos this is a billboard based cloud.
I agree, PG. It seems like a very sharp dense 2D cloud. That's not to say that when Bluestorm tweaks some it won't be great, just now it is like a 2D plane. Far too dense and sharp edged, with the wrong lighting.
I've had clouds almost exactly like this in TG2, I referred to them at the time, as 'alto-vomitus'. ;)
Keep plugging away, Bluestorm! I'd like to see how far E-on have taken Vue since '6'. And not just all the pretend things they've tried to insinuate were 'new' in V7 through their publicity. I have Vue 6, I won't be upgrading.
Heck, PG, with a cloud like that it would be better to just use Photoshop. ;D
I'm interested to see where it goes. I think that getting proper density settings and glow effects is just a matter of time. However, the noise function itself doesn't look as detailed or realistic as what comes out of the TG2 density fractals.
Let me add to the billboard speculations.
The spectral cloud system in vue has been upgraded to v2 its a refined and upgraded version of spetral clouds seen latest in vue 6.5 which was v1 spectral clouds.
The spectral clouds in the previous build and the spectral clouds in new build ( vue 7 ) differs only on lifted controls and better control, even a boost in visual appearance.
Now...
PG, to close your bilboard thoughts you should look at an animation I made some months ago for a client.
The animation is primarily rendered in 3ds max 2008 with brazil r/s 2 but the entrance clip is vue 6.5 spectral clouds v1.
Please evaluate if what you see is bilboards and explain why you think that is.
The spectral clouds in vue7 is an upgrade of the clouds I used in the clips here and are not superiourly downgraded to bilboards ofcourse.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF2avBpbGuU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VF2avBpbGuU)
Ok, I spent the entire evening playing with the new cloud sliders.
One thing that really annoyes me is the fact that e-on failed again in providing any control over the noise function. Just like in Vue 6 you can control the density of the cloud, but not the noise that is used for producing the billowy details. You have to stick with the algorithm e-on created and there's no way to change it >:(
You got to admit PG... that does not look like billboards. So that raises the question why the ones in the V7 promotional anim do look like billboards.
Sorry to be a pain guys but it still looks like billboards to me, this time a smaller collection of billboards, it's like, if you go for a more complex viewpoint like inside the cloud, it subdivides the cloud into chunks and then renders those as billboards ;D
I think it's just the sharp edges that make it look like that. I'd be surprised if you couldn't get softer edges by tweaking a parameter or two.
The mottled look in the shadows looks very much like TG2's "fake internal scattering" when it's set too high :) I wonder if that is tweakable.
Matt
here is a render i found on renderosity looks pretty awesome the clouds look very real
(http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/media/folder_178/file_1777015.jpg)
here is the link
http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1777015 (http://www.renderosity.com/mod/gallery/index.php?image_id=1777015)
yeah thats nice.
Not bilboard.
Ofcourse the clouds can be altered to a more pleasing look in general.
But you have to accept 100% PG its not bilboards, perhaps the artist skills is lacking in your eyes thus renering clouds out with mega hard edges, blame him, dony blame the program :)
Well TG2's default settings don't look anything like as hard edged so I blame the idiotic programmer who set those parameters.
I stopped at Vue 4.
Sure, the ecosystems are great but you need those to cover the unrealistic terrain sets. I also prefer clouds to not look like soup suds.
TG2 clouds are better, so are Mojoworld's.
That last render called "Cloud Carrier" is what Vue does best but full 3D apps that don't just specialize in landscapes are fast becoming capable of that kind of render quite easily. Even Blender is not far off.
TG2 and Mojoworld (even although it hasn't been upgraded for ages) on the other hand are powerful node based procedural planet generators so more specialized and unique.
Ok, I had some time this weekend, so I gave the new Spectral Atmospheres a try. This is the best result I got so far. I still prefer TG2s clouds though, because they are much more flexible when it comes to the overall shape, especially the noise function. There is no way in Vue to change the noise function of the cloud's details, and to be honest I am quite disappointed that e-on left that one out once again.
The image below is a single cloud layer with Global Radiosity (I put the GR quality way down to -2 in order to avoid insane render times). I upped the contrast a bit in PS, but other than that the render is untouched.
Hmmm, it's not pretty...
GO PlanetSide!! ;D
Yeah doesn't look very impressive at all.
Take away Vue's excellent vegetation and population features and there doesn't seem a lot there to get excited about.
yeah iwas going to buy an educational licence for vue 7 infinite which was $99 until found out that the licence only lasts 1 year ::) how budget is that :-\
That one pic on the e-on site is the only one of Vue7 clouds that has attracted me so far.
TBH Vue7 clouds are what Vue6 clouds should have been!
Vue clouds look way more natural than Terragen clouds in many if not most cases, but so far from what I've seen I still prefer the blobby Terragen clouds over the Vue clouds, cause they look more killer ;D. However TG2's agonizing render times are nothing for me.
What d'you mean blobby clouds? The only time I've ever had blobby clouds was when I messed around with the settings too much. Vue's the one with the blobby clouds because that's exactly how they're represented, a collection of spheres bundled together.
Quote from: PG on April 01, 2009, 04:44:56 AM
What d'you mean blobby clouds? The only time I've ever had blobby clouds was when I messed around with the settings too much. Vue's the one with the blobby clouds because that's exactly how they're represented, a collection of spheres bundled together.
Hm, you must be talking about meta-clouds. Regular clouds (layered) work similar to those in TG2.
Quote from: Xpleet on March 31, 2009, 11:36:13 PM
Vue clouds look way more natural than Terragen clouds in many if not most cases...
Really you think so? I was quite excited when I first heard about the cloud revamp for v7 of vue but after seeing the results I don't think it can compare to the TG clouds I see here, especially when created by people like Frank B.
Quote from: Xpleet on March 31, 2009, 11:36:13 PM
Vue clouds look way more natural than Terragen cloud
ahahaha
April 1st, in france that's joke's day ! and you made me laugh with this one ^^
...and what is this? http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/ozone/ozone_4.0/
Ozone is just an atmosphere plugin, it can't be used on its own and isn't anything to do with vue 7 other than it's based on the same technology.
But the newsletter I just received said you can use it to create 'hyper realistic' atmospheres for Vue. Does that mean Vue can't do that by itself, and needs and extra plugin, that you have to pay extra for? Hmmmm...
It *sounds* quite impressive - has anyone here actually used it with 3DS Max or other programs, to see how it stacks up for realism?
Judging from the images they show us, it's not very realistic.
- Terje
Ozone uses the same technology inside Vue and brings that to applications like max, lightwave, cinema4d and so on.
Quote from: Seth on April 01, 2009, 10:57:16 AM
Quote from: Xpleet on March 31, 2009, 11:36:13 PM
Vue clouds look way more natural than Terragen cloud
ahahaha
April 1st, in france that's joke's day ! and you made me laugh with this one ^^
lol you are such a fanboy mate ;D
ah with your talent with terragen 2 you have every right to be (anyway congrats on getting your render on the start up of tg2 gold ;) )
but yeah i have to agree with you terragen 2 clouds are still one step ahead of vue 7 even with their new technology.
and i have had experience with ozone use it with max and cinema 4d and its brilliant I admit its integrates like magic and the clouds are very realistic with the new spectral 2 technology
but terragens clouds are still not photo realistic
(http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=5979.0;attach=15602;image)
this image here no offense choronr but the clouds seem to have a water colour effect to them the light just doesnt scatter properly as it does in real life even lucs clouds look the same they are damn realistic still not photoreal
This is why TG2 needs multiple internal light scattering. That's were is lacks at the moment.
Quote from: Gone on August 16, 2008, 06:39:06 AM
Quote from: reck on August 16, 2008, 05:57:27 AM
lol I think xpleet was just joking.
Well, if that was the case then perhaps i am too much of an old clam for my age. ;D
No you're not.
My point back then was that real clouds are very soft in their internal shadows, Terragen² instead renders those shadows like stone while Vue7 preserves the softness in shadow even when you crank up the sharpness slider.
I just took some preset cloud-scene and adjusted these clouds just a little, the sharpness slider is to the max (affects lighting only, not shape). As you can see though, the shadows are nice and smooth and non-blobby just like in real world.
render time: 6 minutes 2 seconds (Q6700@3,2ghz)
(http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clouds017.jpg)
Vue 7's new Spectral II atmos and clouds (I think they improved the nodes) have not only stepped up to the plate of TG2 clouds but also does it now render much faster than Vue6 and is compatible with Mentalray to use together in 3dsMax and alikes.
I hope Terragen² too can come up with a new scale of speed.
thank you, xpleet, for this example. It clearly shows that you are right in that vue7 clouds have stepped up to TG2.
There is some grain in the clouds, maybe this can be helped by increasing a qualiy parameter of some sort. However, this being rendered in just a few minutes is a benchmark to aim for in TG2.
I would assume the reason for being so much faster in not necessarily in "better code", but most probably in a different render strategy that takes quite a few shortcuts, is maybe less accurate than TG2, and so on, but eventually delivers much higher render speeds while still looking nice.
I wish there will be a few setting in TG2 that will allow the renderer to take some of those shortcuts in the atmosphere and clouds, too. User configurable, wold be my vote. For example, when you want beams of light from e.g. trees casting shadows onto some fog, you need a crazy amount of samples to not get grain in the render. I would like to have a "beams" shader of some sort that creates hose sunbeams without relying on the sampling method.
Vue7 must clearly use some shortcuts like these in their renderer. This is a "dangerous" venture, though. At least in the past, those simplifications have led to less realistic renders with Vue, I believe.
Frank
i am still not impress by the clouds you show us... sorry...
strange shape middle, middle-left part, lot of grain...
that's definitely better than Vue 6 but I am not sure it reaches TG2 quality yet...
Yeah and that large cloud formation by TG2 is done with extreme settings. Those clouds are about 5x larger and thicker than the Vue clouds you posted. I agree with seth. It's better than Vue 6 but not close to TG2
I think the Vue lighting is usually more realistic looking in clouds, though some exceptions. Nevertheless, until I try the newest release with clouds, I can't say the same for TG2 - the clouds generally look less than believable in lighting. Otherwise, I have no complaint with TG2. The shapes and control in TG2 are very good. But, the Out of the Box experience with lighting in clouds leaves me wishing for more.
I love TG2, but can't defend the cloud lighting.
Here another one, preset cloudset but this time untouched and rendered at optimized settings in 1024x768, took 7 minutes 58 seconds. Godrays inc.
The clouds are 30% sharp, still sharper than most of the time in nature I think. I rendered them at 10% again and found that it looked much more natural.
I've found that Vue does better job in rendering dense clouds which occlude the sun when it's positioned in the front. The clouds really look like they are blocking the light and this subtle effect of sunlight bleeding above and below them is also captured. It's hard to achieve in Terragen.
I don't wanna be an ashole, but hey. Don't tell me those clouds look realistic.
They look like they where taken from a cartoon movie or something. They would have been ok in a Pixar movie.
Also.... the height of those are still not very impessive and that's probbably why the rendertime is acceptable.
I'll do some testing with TG2 and see if I can make something similar to those and see what rendertimes are like. I'll post the results here :)
- Terje
And look underneath on the darker cloud. See those oily patches that you get? Exactly the same as really dense TG2 clouds. Snap! ;D
@sjefen and PG : thanks ! I didn't say anythng because I don't want to sound like a fanboy... but damn... the last clouds really look like... Vue clouds ;D
Fanboys FTW!! ;D Vue's strengths are its physics system and possibly it's terrain, although I've never really made any headway with terrain in Vue so I couldn't really say that for certain. But TG2s strengths are most certainly the lighting and atmosphere, without a doubt. Well apart from the vue fanboys ;D
Regardless how those Vue-clouds look, if we're all being truly honest TG2 will not (never say never) render similar clouds with relatively same quality at that size in 8 minutes.
yeah ! but what the point ?
I mean 8 minutes for crap... it's fast, but it's still crap ;)
terrain in Vue are crappy too...
the ultimate strengths of Vue (IMO) are versatility, ecosystem, fast renderer and user friendly interace.
True, but if I remember correctly some people stated TG2 was able to render better clouds than these AND faster too...and the latter is what I do not believe and tried to explain.
Of course TG2 clouds are better :)
Who claimed TG2 could do it faster? That is one thing that Vue fans seem to be clinging onto though, the time gap between vue and terragen but if you test them both it's not that great.
Heheheh, this thread has become one of narcissism ;D.
You guys are all preaching to the choir, who are about the only ones left in the building :P
Hallelujah brother. But hey, you don't need to preach to anyone when you look this good. ;D
I will try and get some renders through mentalray today to show you some of my vue clouds.
anyway terragen certainly has the advantage in terrain generation its unmatched i think carrara 7 has good terrain capabilities but its downfall is when it comes to applying shaders to it. Vue 7 though is very buggy especially compared to terragen 2 personally i think terragen is pretty stable :)
Quote from: wetbanana on April 05, 2009, 05:43:23 PM
I will try and get some renders through mentalray today to show you some of my vue clouds.
Hey.... it's unfair if you use Mental Ray. We can't take the atmosphere from Terragen 2 and render it with Mental Ray.
- Terje
In response to the guy who said that those clouds are not high enough, they are set to be as high as 1 kilometer in the preset i've shown and it has a great field of view so you see a lot at once.
The preset clouds in Vue are driven by a plain simple perlin noise / gradient function which detail is not infinitely driven by distance but by how much you set it. What you do for a closeup shot is you take the noise node and copy it atleast 3 times with 50% and 25% size linking it to a combiner which will blend them in the particular way you like.
This next one took 10 minutes 16 seconds at 1024x768 still from the preset unchanged and driven by that simple noise function.
Quote from: Xpleet on April 05, 2009, 06:11:19 PM
In response to the guy who said that those clouds are not high enough, they are set to be as high as 1 kilometer in the preset i've shown and it has a great field of view so you see a lot at once.
The preset clouds in Vue are driven by a plain simple perlin noise / gradient function which detail is not infinitely driven by distance but by how much you set it. What you do for a closeup shot is you take the noise node and copy it atleast 3 times with 50% and 25% size linking it to a combiner which will blend them in the particular way you like.
This next one took 10 minutes 16 seconds at 1024x768 still from the preset unchanged and driven by that simple noise function.
those clouds look pretty damn real a little to sharp but your getting there
Quote from: sjefen on April 05, 2009, 06:05:01 PM
Quote from: wetbanana on April 05, 2009, 05:43:23 PM
I will try and get some renders through mentalray today to show you some of my vue clouds.
Hey.... it's unfair if you use Mental Ray. We can't take the atmosphere from Terragen 2 and render it with Mental Ray.
- Terje
well that's an advantage Vue has over terragen ;)
More like an advantage 3ds Max has
Mental Ray has started to get good, but as far as I'm concerned Vray is better. Maybe I haven't seen what the latest Mental Ray can do, which is more down to my company's policy than anything else.
I just wanted to chime in and say that I actually like those clouds and think they have, for want of a better term, a 'Harry Potter' feel to them. I think that Joe Public doesn't really know what clouds look like, and to be honest, it's not the point. It's more a case of whether the viewer 'buys' the scene. Which often comes from the cutting in the edit, but a lot more from the general compositing/grading of that sequence, which is why you have varying skills on a production workflow, ie 3d modelling, texturing, lighting, rendering, compositing, editing, within a team of people.
I think it unfair to expect one application to fully achieve all of those disciplines. Which is why I think beyond 64bit, Terragen should concentrate on being able to output separate passes in the render flow, to compliment it's position in that stream. And I'll tell you what; full integration into Backburner would be magnificent.
@ wetbanana,
There are so many processes present in real clouds that Terragen and all other software of its class Vue included do not replicate nor will you find them in the papers on cloud rendering as computers found in use today even the most powerful desktop workstations, are not physically able to replicate a cloud that is 100% physically accurate.
The fact, that is the scientific fact is; that clouds and the mechanisms behind there workings are not fully understood and indeed there are many shades of Grey since many factors about clouds are derived from data sets that come strictly form indirect observation techniques only; there for you will see the following terms used time and again in the scientific publications "It is assumed that..." "it is presumed that...".
The world that Terragen is physically simple, that is to say that the default planet has no axial rotation that provide movement and circulation to the air mass of that planet, the sun in its sky doesn't warm the ground providing thermal up lift currents; its mountains don't force air up to higher attitudes which carry water vapor to condense around Cloud Condensation Nuclei which in the right conditions form the basis of clouds. In the world that Terragen inhabits there is no evaporation of surface and subsurface water, from snow melt runoff, sea spray and a dozen other sources of water vapor that occure in real life.
Physical phenomena that no software considers include light scattering between droplets, cloud albedo and as other have stated multiple scattering which in real clouds is multiple Mie Scattering in both the forward and backward directions.
There are so many things I have deliberately left out of this post as it is forum post not work designed for academia, suffice to say that Terragen for what it dose when used with the right settings its dose well. In closing if you really want Terragen, Vue or any other software to be more realistic in its rendering of clouds then you going to have to go outside of the Computer Graphics literature to do so. For more on clouds see this shred for more about the kinds of phenomana that you'd need to look at http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=599.0
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel ;D
For this rather closeup cloudscape I had to optimize the function just a little to make sure it has a decent quality in front of the cam, so I copied the noise node which was 0.5 in size and blended it with one of 0.2, also increased the repeat factor of the node from 3 to 5.
1024x768 took a whole 42 min 32 seconds.
These clouds are 15% sharp.
The capabilities of Vue7 have to be made clear ::). And for those of you who are merely Vue bashers, atleast pretend to act like grown-ups! ;D
beautiful!
Quote from: wetbanana on April 06, 2009, 12:04:00 AM
beautiful!
Thanks,
I uploaded the Vue file here http://ifile.it/61ok7v5 (http://ifile.it/61ok7v5) so someone can benefit from it.
Quote from: Xpleet on April 06, 2009, 12:01:51 AM
And for those of you who are merely Vue bashers, atleast pretend to act like grown-ups! ;D
The only thing I see, is that from the crappy clouds that I've been post in this thread, the Vue defenders in this forum are not the good one to prove us we're wrong !
If I act as grown up, and I assure you I am, I would say that you need to work on Vue a lot more to convince me that your clouds are good and even to convince me that they are better than TG2's...
I wouldent call the last clouds "crappy" i think xpleet has nearly hit the nail on the head here with a little less noise in the Forground I think the will be pretty amazing the clouds in the distance personally I think are better than what Terragen 2 can do plus the lighting is a lot more realistic from my experience of flying over on a jet when I go abroad this image looks just like when i look out the window of the jet
hmm... xpleet, with the latest render you spoiled it for me ;-)
The first one was actually good, especially considering the render time. But this one, no. Maybe that has to do with the way you contructured the clouds, so more an artist's fault than vue's fault, but I cannot tell.
I saw clouds from vue that looked good, so I'm inclined to think you haven't done this one well.
Regards,
Frank
I wonder if this discussion is not becoming a bit of a dialogue of the deaf. Can we not agree that both Vue and TG2 can produce great clouds? And then?
I'm not on any "side" at all, so for me it is an interesting discussion (for the most part. not the religious stuff, though).
I only know TG2, so this gives me a look over the fence.
Frank
Quote from: domdib on April 06, 2009, 05:45:35 AM
I wonder if this discussion is not becoming a bit of a dialogue of the deaf. Can we not agree that both Vue and TG2 can produce great clouds? And then?
I tend to agree with that indeed. I can't really put my finger on it, but somehow Vue's clouds lack something. A kind of definition/detail level which TG does offer due to the level of control it offers over Vue clouds. However, I agree that Vue's clouds indeed can look very good and also render faster which is a plus.
@Wetbanana: I'm looking forward to see those MentalRay rendered clouds!
I've kinda been ignoring this thread... as it seems to be 13 pages of fighting over whos got better clouds....
.. this being the tg2 forums and me being a tg2 user...
*steps over to the tg2 side*
YEHH!!! TG2 CLOUDS FTW!! TAKE THAT VUE!
;)
There they are judging and comparing and judging and comparing again, quite pitiful imo. And besides, I wonder if anyone is aware that this forum generally has a pretty bad atmosphere.
I gave you a couple of simplistic examples so take it or leave it but don't expect me to respond to the whining battery. When I read things like "those vue defenders" it makes me feel as though I joined a kindergarten here. I've only made my point and now people can come, download my file and develope even better clouds.
I wonder what you are expecting on an official TG2 forum...
what do you think will be the attitude of Vue user if we post TG2 renders saying that, in our opinion, TG2 can do better than Vue considering the clouds... ?
this "Vue Vs TG2" thing seems to be as old as the two softwares... TG2 users will always prefer TG2 and Vue users will always prefer TG2...
that is not kindergarden attitude, that's only matter of taste. Well that what I think...
As for the atmosphere of the forum, I've been in a lot of forums and I think you're totally wrong... TG2's community is a very good one and I learnt a lot of thing in here, because people shared a lot of knowledge.
Give us real good examples instead of simplistic ones and maybe people will change their mind (well, I'll do if you show me real good clouds).
Perhaps you can link us atmosphere done by top artists made with Vue... That will be a good way to compare atmo, don't you think ?
Agreed with seth. We are on the tg2 forums, where the users know and understand how to use tg2 atmospheres to their advantage.
As for who's better tg2 or vue, thats what we call an opinion. Thing is the opinion of this board will almost always side with tg2, as its what we know like and use.
I have yet to see anything done in vue that truely amazes me, yet with tg2 i have seen quite a few various images from time to time with atmospheres (or just in general) amaze me.
A lot of it also boils down to the artist. Who made the clouds, how skilled are they and how well do they understand how to get the best out of a given program.
All this discussion should also be analyzed in the light of all those photographic sites in which you see images of real clouds which are so far from our stereotipical model of cloud to make almost everybody say "nah, it's photoshopped"...
When you see great Vue clouds, you are never watching the result of stock configurations: they are always the result of long tuning of internal parameters and shader structure. GeekAtPlay tutorials give the false idea that you can create a great Vue render in a quarter of an hour: in reality, expect to spend even a full hour tuning just ONE single material.
At the end in Vue you have to edit in detail the shader network structure and parameters, exactly as you would do in TG2, only with a more friendly user interface (the network analyzed in small chunks and not thrown into your face in one shot).
Now that I have bought also Carrara 7, I have understood one thing: every render creates images with its own particular style. I have never seen a dreamy, foggy scene done with TG2 exactly as it is extremely difficult that you will see a sharp, photo-like desert scene in Vue galleries. Carrara renders are about in between the two worlds, with DAZ Studio it is horrendously difficult to have fuzzy shadows and so on. There is no Swiss Army Knife program around, each has its philosophy and area of excellence; all this mine is bigger... sorry, sharper than yours talks are somewhat pointless, so if you have one program, specialize in the kind of scenes it does best, otherwise, get the program which does best what you want (and nothing, apart from the credit card limit, prevents you from having many tools).
Bye!!!
P.S.: is TG2 final going to be available also for free evaluation?
Quote from: latego on April 06, 2009, 01:34:00 PM
At the end in Vue you have to edit in detail the shader network structure and parameters, exactly as you would do in TG2, only with a more friendly user interface (the network analyzed in small chunks and not thrown into your face in one shot).
That's, again, a matter of opinion. I used Vue 6 for a month and vue 7 for a week and in neither case really knew where anything was. With TG2 I could render pretty convincing cloud and ocean scenes in a matter of hours. Ease of use is a completely pointless term that software developers tout. Mac users say that OSX can be used by a baby, I say OSX can be thrown in the bin. That's another thing too. Vue users tend to use Mac and Mac tends to be used by visual effects teams on movies. TG tends to be used on Windows by hobbyists, artists and professional rendering companies.
This is an image I did in January in Vue. Full resolution on http://www.cornucopia3d.com/galleries/displayimage.php?pos=-25098
You can produce nice clouds in Vue, but they have a completely different "feel" and look than TG2's clouds, so all comparisons are useless. TG2's clouds look amazing, I think every Vue owner agrees with that. Vue's new Spectral 2 clouds are nice, but they are different. Take it or leave it, I think what matters is the artist and not the software that is behind a nice cloud render.
Some of the Vue clouds actually look more realistic, but that isn't because of the shapes (necessarily); it's because of the lighting inside the clouds. We can't get this as easily in TG2 and I think someone should take note and hopefully produce these sorts of clouds in TG2. Then, pass your parameters to the rest of us. TG2 clouds do not have sufficient lighting and depth - they lack the degrees of subtlety seen in real clouds.
That image is much nicer. Still too "bubbly" for my tastes but that is, like you say, because vue clouds are developed differently to TG2 clouds
worse ;D
cool image but i notice that we still see some grain...
the lower part is very good but the upper side presents some density and lighting problem in the clouds :)
i am not ass picking here, i had exactly the same problem with clouds i made some weeks ago... (remember the "perfect sky Frank ? has the same lighting with front sun)
I don't want to be an... well, you know the word, but look what I've just found on Cornucopia - Terrapak (http://www.cornucopia3d.com/purchase.php?item_id=4223).
I especially liked this part:
Quote
TerraPak™ is an easy-to-use, but advanced toolkit for users of Vue 6 and above. With TerraPak, and a few enlightened clicks, Vue quickly replicates the hyper-reality seen in many 3d landscape images and photos, including those from Terragen™. (...)
Well, that's something.
... it even gets better when you read on ..... and then ..... behold the example images ;D ;D
Ain't that lovely to see a $22.95 "tool" for Vue which is supposed to mimic Terragen 0.9?
"Many of the images you'll see at the TerraPak website were rendered at a resolution of 1600 x 900, in under 20 minutes! "
wow... and terragen .9 and 2 (though it would be a waste of tg2's power) can do images like that in the same amount of time! Seeing as they don't look impressive at all.
and agreed, a 23 buck additional fee to get tg .9 quality.
the multiple day renders are generally crazy good, and since support of multithreading tg2 has been doing stuff in much better time for me.
"Order TerraPak now and receive TGHarvest as a bonus! 28 image driven materials harvested from actual Terragen surfaces. "
Soo.... you make a surface in tg .9... then move it to vue....
surfaces in tg .9 are like NOTHING compared to the awesome of tg2.
couldn't resist to compare render times. This one here took 11 min 53 seconds. So not too bad, I suppose. The cloud lighting is not too bad either, I think. Just a quickie, though.
Regards,
Frank
ps: hmm, maybe the jpeg compression was a little strong.
Wow Frank, these aren't even that noisy...
what did you use to cook those nice clouds? CoreI7?
Quote from: Walli on April 08, 2009, 04:02:50 AM
what did you use to cook those nice clouds? CoreI7?
why? because they're so crappy or because they're so neat? ;-)
[edit] ah, now I get it :-) I have read "Corel 7", but you actually meant Core i7. Yes, a Core i7 would be the answer. I could have decreased render times some some, thought, and still have comparable render quality with the vue image [/edit]
as I said, they are nice! But ten minutes on a P4 is different from 10 minutes on a CoreI7. I think I am getting one of those beasts as soon as they have this "get box with vista and free windows 7 updates" kind of deals.
But back to topic - Vue can produce some very nce atmospheres. And a lot of people say Vue 7 renders much faster. But in my experience Vue also takes a while to render, if you want to get really good results.
In most cases I prefer the look of Terragen.
oh, about "cook" - I sometimes use cooking as "replacement" for the term rendering, as machines sometimes get hot. Sometimes I am also frying my pictures ;-)
Quote from: PG on April 06, 2009, 02:25:03 PM
That image is much nicer. Still too "bubbly" for my tastes but that is, like you say, because vue clouds are developed differently to TG2 clouds
worse ;D
:D :D :D
That's one of the funniest lines I've read for ages!
Quote from: Hetzen on April 05, 2009, 07:04:02 PM
Mental Ray has started to get good, but as far as I'm concerned Vray is better. Maybe I haven't seen what the latest Mental Ray can do...
Here are some
Mental Ray (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=754315) renders.
It should prove that Mental Ray is really a beast behind the right hands.
- Terje
Quote from: sjefen on April 18, 2009, 09:56:50 PM
Quote from: Hetzen on April 05, 2009, 07:04:02 PM
Mental Ray has started to get good, but as far as I'm concerned Vray is better. Maybe I haven't seen what the latest Mental Ray can do...
Here are some Mental Ray (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=132&t=754315) renders.
It should prove that Mental Ray is really a beast behind the right hands.
- Terje
Oh haha, that's funny, I just posted a new topic about these fantastic renders. Didn't see this post until now.
But you're right, in the right hands it can give magnificent results!
Wow, sfjen, no kidding. These are amazing.
Quote from: sjefen on April 18, 2009, 09:56:50 PM
It should prove that Mental Ray is really a beast behind the right hands.
I can't dent that. Those renders are terrific. The amount of detail put into those textures are very good (spevificly the mildew in the window frames).
How does the latest version of MR compare with Vray in animation renders? We found MR to be quite a lot slower. That was a few years back mind.
Well that I don't know. I don't really use Mental Ray and Vray I have never tested.
Some time ago I went to school so I could learn 3ds max. I remember I loved Mental Ray. I thought it was awesome. It was slower then the Scanline render, but I manage to get much better result with it anyway.
- Terje
What would be the factor that the spectral atmosphere 2 has make an options to the amount of detail ?
________________
plastic training (http://www.mappinc.com)
"Anything Vue can do TG can do better, TG can do anything better than Vue"
That just came to mind... ;D
Quote from: nvseal on June 28, 2009, 03:47:05 PM
"Anything Vue can do TG can do better, TG can do anything better than Vue"
Now that's a great product promotional line; it's witty, and it's got real attitude. Dare Planetside use it. Their lawyers probably think not.
John