The new Planetside homepage is OK...
But as a pre purchase buyer of TG2, i am very disappointed of the offer of XfrogPlants.
Sorry for my english, because i am a french canadian guy ;)
I am an hobbyst not a professionnal.
I am sure that the success of TG2 come from hundred of users who share their experience since years.
Why not the staff at Planetside recognize that and offer some Xfrog free samples.
Otherwise, i am sure that a great number of users of TG2 will no follow the future of this fantastic software.
I am so sorry that my poor payday ( 300$ by week ;( )dont allow me to purchase the plants.
The plants cost 400$. Canadian dollars are 500$ :(
I am afraid that this software become a software for professionals and forgot in the future the hobbyst or amateur.
I disagree somewhat on the part of Planetside. I think they are still very much catering to the hobbyist market. With the release, I think they could have increased the price by much more than just $100. The issue is simply with the current distribution method by Xfrog (a separate company) the add-on plants are not in a hobbyist friendly package at the moment.
In reality nothing has changed from pre-release to final release for most hobby users. There are quite a few quality plants available here and at terragen.org for free, as well as hopefully growing storefronts from users like Klas and Cypher.
As mentioned in the other post you made regarding this... xfrog plants have nothing to do with planetside's software. TG2 final price is only going up by $100, making it *extremely reasonable* for hobbyists, vs other software prices.
The xfrog plants and their prices are determined by xfrog.
Also, in other threads here Planetside staff have mentioned additional FREE plants TO COME soon...
So be patient, Planetside won't disappoint.
Just to clarify, we will be releasing a few free plant models ourselves, but it is not a tremendous number. Hopefully we can increase it in the future, but for now I think it will be something like 4-5 models. Still it should be a nice little addition. :)
- Oshyan
Now this I believe and this is something worth getting excited about.
Thanks Oshyan for saying something and thanks Planetside for thinking about your community.
Now there's some good news!
After reading all these complaints about the XFrog package price, let me say this. If you are in need of affordable vegetation models for the hobbyist then support the forum members here who have offered up their own models (in most instances for free). Creating such models is a big effort and nobody is going to do that without feeling appreciated for their contributions and receiving encouragement for further development.
If I remember right, you made some, otakar...right? It's relatively easy for our work to be loss to obscurity among everything happening on these pages. But, contributing something useful can never be a bad thing.
Quote from: calico on April 24, 2009, 07:23:59 AM
If I remember right, you made some, otakar...right? It's relatively easy for our work to be loss to obscurity among everything happening on these pages. But, contributing something useful can never be a bad thing.
No, I am just a consumer. But it seems to me some people don't appreciate all the work that goes into creating such models. And software such as XFrog is rather expensive for a hobbyist, so you got that hurdle as well. I want more models to be available for TG scenes just like anyone else, but I have no expectation of Planetside providing those for free. Planetside should focus on TG development and support, it's more than enough work :)
I understand that Planetside should focus one TG development and support (it' s more than enough work)! I understand all that. But after more than ten years of development, waits was big at the user's of TG as for instance the addition of vegetables and trees which were the party neglected by software package for a long time.
Even if I am not an unconditional supporter of Eon View, it gives vegetables in their software for a long time. Besides, it gives several versions of software according to the prices which people can pay.
What i mean is now in 2009, Terragen 2 without plants is outdated (partially of course!)
In forums 3D, it is the biggest reproach which they make in this marvellous software.
My fear is that TG2 becomes a software for professionals of the 3D and that Planetside considers the big community of Terragen (the most part of the hobbyst) as one second bum around.
According to me, it is obvious, that for the future of Planetside, this last must see again his policy with Xfrog because people are very quickly going to grow tired of a possible misunderstanding. I hope only that Xfrox does not use the launching of TG2 to make money.
TG2 arrives at adulthood. While it shows how much it is thankful towards the hundreds of members of the community which supports Planetside for many years.
At present, Planetside and Xfrog appear to me more as businessmen than of artisans 3D who want to provide quality tools, even in hobbysts. I hope that I make a mistake.
Quote from: blueland on April 25, 2009, 06:03:55 AM
What i mean is now in 2009, Terragen 2 without plants is outdated.
you can still use free plants ;)
no need to spend 1 000 000 $ to xfrog to use TG2 for creating good renders (IMHO)
well if you can go ahead ^^
but i really don't think that without the xfrog pack TG2 will be outdated...
Seth, I understand your point of view. Terragen 2 is a very good software of creations and rendering. I agree with you. However, it is more complete with plants. And if I must content myself with some free plants, I am restricted in my creation.
I wish better one collaboration between Planetside and Xfrog. Especially, I want Planetside to defend the point of view of the hundreds of hobbysts which encourages it in front of Xfrog. I am not sure of the happy marriage of this two businesses nowadays.
I know what you mean... but creation is always restricted by the amount of money you have on your bank account...
oh, and I am a hobbyist too, with a very low money spending capacity... so I totally understand your statement.
But for Planetside, the partnership with xfrog seems to be a very good move.
Salut Seth,
en parcourant le forum, je m'aperçois que tu es Français de Paris. Salut la France pour moi mon ami.
Je suis un cousin québécois francophone. J'habite Montréal.
Ça fait du bien de pouvoir discuter, ne serait-ce que le temps d'un "post" avec un utilisateur de Terragen francophone :)
Ici au Québec, il y a énormément de mises à pied à cause de la crise mondiale monétaire.
Des milliers par semaine. Dans un tel contexte, la gratuité ou l'accès plus facile monétairement à un logiciel que l'on aime prend
un sens différent.
Bon week end cousin!
:D
la crise mondiale touche aussi la France, malheureusement...
pour information, je comprend ton soucis d'argent, je gagne personnellement 1700$ Canadien par mois... donc l'achat du bundle Xfrog est pour moi totallement irréalliste :'(
ceci dit, Planetside a, je pense, fais le bon choix pour leur société en s'associant à Xfrog... peut-etre que dans un futur plus ou moins proche nous auront droit à quelques freebies sympathiques.
de toute façon, les packs de plantes ont toujours été sacrément chers... et comme vous dites : "l'argent ne pousse pas sur les arbres" ^^
sorry guys for this french blah blah but it feels sooooo good to speak french with a canadian cousin some times ;)
I agree.
Quote from: otakar on April 25, 2009, 12:14:24 AM
Planetside should focus on TG development and support, it's more than enough work :)
hi, we try to make together with planetside something that has many plants, and that both companies can hold up to competition, and as well tools for users of high quality. for both companies have a deep investment in the quality of realism before anything else. terragen does not issue code that creates bad quality images. we spent 10+ years making and remaking and remaking plant modeling by botanical experts. we could sell small plant bundles or individual models of plants at low cost for terragen 2 user. we do already do this on turbosquid, cornucopia3d, daz3d, renderosity and these all work inside Terragen 2 (OBJ import) it conceptually seemed better to offer what may be more symbiotic with planetside tg2 ideal. we both make something if bundle is successful. if it is not, we make not profit, but planetside still always have tg2 without plants. and as such, you are not ever forced to buy plants from xfrog. in any case - we try to do bundle. maybe it does not succeed. maybe only way is to sell clusters and individuals. which gives no direct profit to planetside. some secondary sales, yes. bundle is very agressive price per plant. and serious number of plant options. flowers, bushes, grasses, underwater plants, prehistoric, and nearly all regions of world are represented in detail.
content prices depend on number of users of underlying software. if there are 100, or 10000, or 100,000 user - it determine price options for content seller. hobbyist or professional is not how we set price. we set price based on potential sales related to underlying users of the software. a price point which also makes possible to exist as a company.
-xfrog
Quote from: blueland on April 25, 2009, 06:22:31 AM
Seth, I understand your point of view. Terragen 2 is a very good software of creations and rendering. I agree with you. However, it is more complete with plants. And if I must content myself with some free plants, I am restricted in my creation.
I wish better one collaboration between Planetside and Xfrog. Especially, I want Planetside to defend the point of view of the hundreds of hobbysts which encourages it in front of Xfrog. I am not sure of the happy marriage of this two businesses nowadays.
Dear xfrog - Anders has a good point - http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6178.msg65582#msg65582
Quote from: xfrog on April 27, 2009, 02:15:46 AM
content prices depend on number of users of underlying software. if there are 100, or 10000, or 100,000 user - it determine price options for content seller. hobbyist or professional is not how we set price. we set price based on potential sales related to underlying users of the software. a price point which also makes possible to exist as a company.
Well, hobbyist and professional have completely different approaches to buying.
A professional asks himself "does this tool cost less than my time to recreate content?" and given usual hourly wage of professional graphics, e.g. a 150$ TurboSquid mesh is a sensible proposition.
The hobbyists, on the other hand, operates under a more or less fixed budget. As soon as the price goes out of the impulse buying range, sales collapse. If you set a price that makes hobbyists ask themselves "is it really worth the price?" you have lost most of the potential sales. If anybody put on Renderosity or Cornucopia3D or DAZ a 150$ mesh, they would be greeted with laughs and would not sell even a single copy.
I think that the only sensible solution for a third party firm is to subdivide its product range into professional and consumer ranges and price accordingly items (obviously restricting all the features a professional might want in the high range line).
For example for the tree subject, I would create medium resolution meshes for hobbyists and high/medium/low resolution ones for professionals. Professionals need to have highly detailed foreground plants for high quality renders and might need low poly ones for mass scenes or games, while hobbyist can live with a half way.
Bye!!!
There's also the 'Mrs Factor'. While I can afford to pay for a package of objects, I have to justify this with the Mrs, and if she finds that it's more than the cost of a new bedroom carpet I'm on to a loser.
I would happily pay double the price for individual objects compared to the same object price as part of a package.