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General => File Sharing => Skies, Atmo, Clouds => Topic started by: Arkanias4 on January 29, 2007, 12:19:29 PM

Title: image quality with light rays
Post by: Arkanias4 on January 29, 2007, 12:19:29 PM
Hi all! first thanks everyone for sharing files and tips. Wanted to have your opinion on this one. I know scale is not OK as it's just an exercise I started with twist and shear shader and that finished in playing with clouds and dramatic lighting. I find the image too grainy to my taste. Any idea to improve it within the TP.
Bernard
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Arkanias4 on January 29, 2007, 12:21:02 PM
Here is the tgd file if anyone is interested  :)
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: buzzzzz on January 29, 2007, 12:43:24 PM
crank up your atmo setting quality samples to 64
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Arkanias4 on January 29, 2007, 12:51:06 PM
Thanks Jay, I did raise number of samples for the cloud layer and forgot to do it for the atmo...
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: old_blaggard on January 29, 2007, 05:18:55 PM
Without the graininess this looks good.  Nice job.
Title: Image quality with light rays - same "grainy" problem
Post by: Ironshirt on August 01, 2007, 06:05:29 AM
Hi all !

I have similar problems with my light rays... when I increase haze density to achieve those rays the render becomes very grainy.
Quality settings just seem to have little effect on it.

I used following settings for my last render:

512x384 res, Detail 0.8(!), 4 AA, GI 4-4 , Atmosphere Quality - 50 Samples(which is quite a high value)
(see attached image)

I'am now trying same settings with 64 Samples for the atmospheric quality (as considered by buzzzz in this thread) and hope this will eliminate the grainyness...   if so, I just wonder why 14 samples more make such a big difference... but we'll see
rendering is in progress^^

Michael
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 01, 2007, 06:55:42 AM
Cranking up atmo samples to 64 will probably increase the rendertime a lot. I suggest you then lower GI settings to about 2-2/1-1. Or even use the fill light setup, which can be found here:

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=580.0

Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Ironshirt on August 01, 2007, 07:13:34 AM
I already tried different GI settings, from 1-1 up to 4-4...  with no success.

Currently I'am rendering with 64 atmosphere samples (at 50% now - and rendering for 1 hour) but if it fails I'll try
the fill light setup, thats an good idea...     
Thanks!
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 01, 2007, 08:27:05 AM
The suggested GI-settings were only meant to save rendertime, since increasing atmosamples willl greatly increase rendertime, not to achieve better results. As far as I know and what I have seen myself, high GI settings rarely give better results in the atmo, so rendering at GI 1-1 should be sufficient and quite faster than rendering with GI at 4-4. Disabling GI and using the fill light setup will give "similar" results and will even save more rendertime.
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: ThinkPink on August 01, 2007, 09:41:45 AM
to get those rays (without grain) i push the atmo samples to 80 - 100 or even higher, same with the cloud samples
GI to 1/1 max 2/2, quality render max 0.8.
The render time grows up, but .... if you want rays without grain ....  :-\
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Oshyan on August 01, 2007, 12:57:26 PM
I would consider 64 atmosphere samples to be about an average for achieving low noise results with some rays in the scene. For heavily shadowed scenes with lots of rays you may need 128 samples or even higher. That's just what is necessary at this point to achieve high quality results in these specific circumstances. Fortunately in most other situations such high sample levels are rarely necessary.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Ironshirt on August 01, 2007, 06:18:19 PM
Thanks for all your answers! Really nice!

Increasing atmosphere number of samples did it...
I made two additional renders - the first with 64 samples and the second with 128. (attached, for those who are interested)
Detail was 0.7 here for saving rendertime.
A third one follows with the fill lightning setup and 128 atmo samples - I've to say that this setup needs most time for rendering by now.
The one with same settings but normal lightning took 3,5 hours - this one here is now at 4 and hasn't finished half of the second (final) rendering step. But I'am curious about how it will look   :o
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 01, 2007, 06:54:25 PM
With fill lights takes longer???
Strange...maybe GI is more suitable for rays, but honestly I have no clue.
"Normally" using only fill lights saves quite some rendertime. Sure you disabled GI?
Going from 64 to 128 samples is a great improvement! It seems you would even have to render it at 256 samples  :o amazing  :P
Nice work!
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: rcallicotte on August 02, 2007, 08:48:47 AM
The 128 sampled picture definitely looks very nice.  Even with the little grain, it looks like a photo.
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Ironshirt on August 23, 2007, 08:02:50 AM
Hi again!

First, thanks for your compliments!
I'm very sorry, but I couldn't post the promised image by now. I have a new job  and live here in Aachen for work (since three weeks now).
My 'real' home (including my tg2 license) is nearby the Nürburgring .  I go there every weekend and will be able to post the latest version of the image  from there( which is 1024*768 0.7 and 256 atmosphere samples). Sorry again for the long delay !

@ Tangled-Universe    Maybe I forgot to delete the original environmental light... I think I will have to read the fill light setup article again... thanks!


Greetings,

Michael


Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Ironshirt on August 26, 2007, 08:48:20 AM
Hi!

Here is the 256 atmosphere samples version of the scene. I noticed that camera position has changed a little bit which is bad for comparision. But I hope you can see the difference anyhow...

Greetings
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: old_blaggard on August 26, 2007, 12:19:12 PM
The grain looks much better.  If you do feel like re-rendering this, I would recommend making the atmosphere samples even higher (maybe all the way to 512) and decrease the roughness a little in the clouds' density shader.
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: Oshyan on August 26, 2007, 02:13:33 PM
I'm rather surprised there's still grain against the terrain. You do sometimes still see it in the sky, even with such high settings, but the terrain is usually much more forgiving. I wonder if there are other settings making this a difficult render for the system...

- Oshyan
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: bigben on August 27, 2007, 12:17:24 AM
Some cloud fractal settings can also contribute to noise. Smallest scale (try increasing) and Contrast (try decreasing) are a couple I've found to contribute. Roughness probably does too. Changing these will also change your clouds a bit... how much depends on your render settings. 
Title: Re: image quality with light rays
Post by: PG on November 16, 2007, 01:38:21 PM
Just one little thing, if your noticing a massive increase in render times then reduce GI settings to 0. you'll have to type it in. This removes the render pass with all the dots so it's a lot faster. I've always found the graininess annoying. never tried increasing atmo samples before. thankies.