I'm in the process of building a new computer and I am trying to decide whats best between CPU speed or multiple cores/multiple threads and more memory. I'm trying the decide between the following 2 options on which will give me the most bang for the buck running Terragen 2.
1. Intel Core i7 system with a motherboard that has 6 banks for memory (6 x 2gb =12 gb total) and a Intel i7-975 3.33GHz 4 core hyperthread processor (4 cores x 2 threads per core = 8 threads total).
2 Intel Xeon 5530 series system with a dual processor motherboard that has 6 banks for memory per processor which equals 12 banks and a total of 24gb of memory. The processors would be Intel Xeon L5530 Nehalem-EP 2.4GHZ quad core with hyperthreading (2 processors x 4 cores x 2 threads = 16 threads total) "Note I would start with only one processor and memory in it's 6 banks to save money and I'd have the ability to expand in the future by adding the 2nd processor and it's memory in the other 6 banks.
My question is what is more important when running "Terragen 2" Cpu speed (3.33GHz vs 2.4GHz) or number of processors/cores/threads and more memory (16 vs 8 threads and 24gb vs 12gb memory)?
Also how does memory fit into the equation 12gb vs 24gb?
If the answer is the xeon w/ 2 processors I realize starting out building with 1 processor that it will be slower than the Core i7 build. I like having the option of expanding the system down the road with the 2nd processor and additional 12gb of memory, but this pushes the overall cost up by a third.
The only way I'd have in the future of upgrading the i7 build is if Intel comes out with a faster processor that will work in this motherboard (not likely) or I could try to overclock the system.
Wrapping things up even thou the two systems (xeon w/1 processor) are about the same costs starting off because of the cost difference in the processors (due to their speed difference) I am leaning towards the i7 build. This would keep me from spending more money down the road, unless I learn that the extra threads and memory at the cost of CPU speed is a better way to go (by a large amount) in the long term.
Thanks
Rob
I would do some hunting in the new CGI Films. The house which does the CGI often likes to show off the how's of what they did. Often they mention what type and configuration of the machines used for rendering.
Are you eventually going to build more rendering computers? This is now about money. Go for the most power/ least expense. If you want a general use computer go with the i7. It's 'standard' so nearly anything would run on it.
Personally I'd drool over a dual socket system with 2 Xeon's @ 2.44GHz....pity the i7 is not suitable for dual socket systems.
I can't look into your wallet, but I'd go for an i7 if I had to buy a rendermachine now.
Next year the i9 will arrive, that's probably where I'm going for, anyhow.
As far as I know TG2 for Windows works well with dual processors up to 16 threads in total.
The Mac version has some upscaling problems if I'm correct.
Estimating renderspeed for TG2 is quite simple. It's mainly dependent on CPU and then on RAM. GPU is of virtually 0 importance.
Depending on your money I'd go for a system with as much GHz's for the least amount of money.
Regarding RAM: I'd not go over 12GB for now. Maybe we'll hit the 12GB ceiling with 64-bit TG2 but I doubt that even. You would have to make an either incredibly complex scene with insane rendersettings or an insanely large sized render, or a bit of both. Not very likely for now.
Martin
Hi
Im also going to build a new computer soon. My advice is to go for the I7, but not the 975!!! Get the I7-920. It's 4 times cheaper and is great for overclocking. You don't have to OC it to 5,2GHZ, just keep it around 4-4,2 GHZ and it's a very stable and powerful system.
Also next year they'll release new processors (like the I9), which will be compatible with the same motherboard socket than the I7 (1366). I saw some tests of these new I9 processors and its said to work perfectly with the motherboards on sale now. Just buy a mobo which is also good for overclocking and you'll get a very powerful computer with the possibility to just change the processor next year.
The I7-975 difference with 920 is absolutely not worth the price, and when you count the overclocking possibilities of the 920 it is useless to waste your money.
I hope this helps.
Thanks guys,
I've decided to build the i7 core system with the i7-920 cpu in an Asus P6T-WS motherboard. Thanks for the info on the i9, I Didn't know about the i9 series coming out next year. I'm excited about this as it will give me a good upgrade path if one of those will drop right into my Asus P6T-WS and the i7-920 can go to my son ;D.
Sorry but 2.44GHz is really not that fast, my Dell Precession T7400 Workstaion has a Quadcore X5482 Harpertown rated at 3.20GHz and I hope to fill the second slot as soon as I can afford to do so, in addition your 24GB of RAM is going to be out classed as I intend too out fit mine with its full complement of 64GB. I am looking forward too getting Windows 7 64bit when its available and proven too be stable. Its a pity that TG2 uses the CPU only for rendering and not make use of the GPU as I'd like to give my Nividia Quadro FX4600 a workout. ;D
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
English is not my mother toungue so maybe i am misinterpreting here... but does Cyber Angel's comment sound relevent for you guys? For me it does sound like "my weenie is larger than yours" kind of comment. I am sorry if i didn't understand correctly but i really don't see your point.
GHZ amounts are NOT a key factor anymore between old and new processors. Some 1-2 years old 3ghz processors are just waaaaaayyyy behind new I7 2,4 ghz processors. Just check some benchmarks and tests on the net.
The guy is asking for a good solution for a new computer, the best bang for your buck set up, and something that he could upgrade with time.
"in addition your 24GB of RAM is going to be out classed as I intend too out fit mine with its full complement of 64GB."
Wow... now you are my hero.
As for Quadro gfx card, they're good (and that is debatable, i used to have one and didn't find the price to be worth) but only for displaying while working on 3d apps. Nothing during renders.
I think that the I7 920 solution can get you a very powerful and upgradable cpu for less than 1400 dollars.
Quote from: Tenjin on September 07, 2009, 08:35:02 AM
English is not my mother toungue so maybe i am misinterpreting here... but does Cyber Angel's comment sound relevent for you guys? For me it does sound like "my weenie is larger than yours" kind of comment. I am sorry if i didn't understand correctly but i really don't see your point.
GHZ amounts are NOT a key factor anymore between old and new processors. Some 1-2 years old 3ghz processors are just waaaaaayyyy behind new I7 2,4 ghz processors. Just check some benchmarks and tests on the net.
The guy is asking for a good solution for a new computer, the best bang for your buck set up, and something that he could upgrade with time.
"in addition your 24GB of RAM is going to be out classed as I intend too out fit mine with its full complement of 64GB."
Wow... now you are my hero.
As for Quadro gfx card, they're good (and that is debatable, i used to have one and didn't find the price to be worth) but only for displaying while working on 3d apps. Nothing during renders.
I think that the I7 920 solution can get you a very powerful and upgradable cpu for less than 1400 dollars.
Newbie Alert!!!
Let me break it down for you and other techno fan-boys here, its time too get with the program people! I was merely stating in my own way the 3.20 beats 2.44 any day of the week no matter what the technology, even the homeless have access too newer technology, I mean who cares how it works as long as it dose, I mean guy's who want too get into endless debates with the other guy weather he's right or wrong must be like 17 or some thing, well like Tom Green said "Battle me son, what are you delirious? Why don't battle Nass and call me when your serious!", in other words its time too act like you got a pair, Ho-Rah!
I really don't care for people who want too call me out over what I say, that is the start and end of it right there, now if I've offended you then say so, I mean do a barrel roll and break your caps lock, in fact we'll get some Mics, a DJ, some beats and a crowd and have at it till one person leaves in tears.
So if I'm reading right people on here now need some kind permission form the thought police before they talk about their rig, Um-mm, News Flash Genius this is not the Orwellian world of 1984, yet, just not going too happen.
Look many debates on the Internet turn into arguments simply due too the nuances of facial expression and speech are missing form text, Emoticons help a little but there is still much missing, I have and never did have in this thread of getting into a "My rig is bigger and bad then your rig" argument just so every one is crystal on that one.
Hope that helps. If not I am moving on. ;D 8)
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
Possibly the easiest way to get a good idea of what to go for is to look at the http://www.3dspeedmachine.com/ (http://www.3dspeedmachine.com/) site.
Since it basis its ranking on actual application performance, not some arbitrary benchmarking program you'll be able to see the kinds of combination that best suite your needs. Terragen is included as are performance tests for most of the other 3d apps.
Good luck with your new rig
Richard
ps: Two or three years back I bought one of the first Dual cores to come out along with the motherboard to go with is. The salesman assured me that it would be compatible with the quad core processors once they came out. It was supposed to be but by the time the quad cores were released their spec had changes and the motherboard was no longer compatible. So just because they say its gona fit next year don't mean it will !! :)
Cyber ~ you feeling ok ? bit of a reaction there mate :)
Hi Cyphyr,
I'm OK thanks for asking, just me seeing things again the way I normally do either black or white with no shades of Grey; trying too get better at it but I don't do diplomatic vary well never have. ;D
Ah yes :) Diplomacy was never one of my strong points either.
There's an English phrase, "Open mouth, insert foot, speak!"
;D
Richard
Quote from: Cyber-Angel on September 07, 2009, 01:32:29 PM
Hi Cyphyr,
I'm OK thanks for asking, just me seeing things again the way I normally do either black or white with no shades of Grey; trying too get better at it but I don't do diplomatic vary well never have. ;D
Quote from: cyphyr on September 07, 2009, 01:36:49 PM
Ah yes :) Diplomacy was never one of my strong points either.
There's an English phrase, "Open mouth, insert foot, speak!"
;D
Richard
Ah! So I'm not alone. ;)
Quote from: Cyber-Angel on September 07, 2009, 11:14:27 AM
Newbie Alert!!!
You're not really helping yourself this way :) lol
Not really useful indeed, agree with Tenjin, newbie or not...I don't care.
Tenjin is right that absolute GHz's is not the most important factor anymore, so I was slightly wrong regarding that.
Still, rough processor power is most useful for TG2 with much RAM as second.
As Tenjin said I'd also go for an i7 at the moment, but if you can afford a dual setup with the -Xeon's which are pretty similar to i7's- then that would be really cool.
I still think that 12GB is good for starters.
Cheers,
Martin
I think I get the picture, I'll try not to use phrase that in future! :) 8)
Regards to you.
Cyber-Angel
cool ! :D
rkphelps: some new processors have just been released, the new i5 but also some new i7: the 860 and 870. The I7-870 is not an interesting buy because its very expensive for the performance it has but the I7-860 may be a real good alternative to the I7-920, because it is very similar. The only thing is that it's on a different socket, the 1156 which is supposed to be the "mid-level" processors socket from Intel while I7-920's socket is 1366 "high end" product.
The I7-860 might be interesting because the mother boards are a bit cheaper but it is very unsure if future better processors will be released for this socket... I am still hestitating myself as to what processor i should buy. I still think i'll go with I7-920, because it is supposed to be the "high end" product of Intel and thus is going to get the new I9 or other big performance processors next year (let's hope they don't change their mind)... Intel's offer is a bit confusing so it's easy to be lost with all these releases...
Cyber-angel: ok i allow 1 minute of my life to bother answering you. First of all im not a techno fanboy, i don't know much about this stuff, i am a motion graphics designer so i am more into programs and trying to do cool stuff. As i am also going to buy a new machine i already looked for a good new setup so that's why i wanted to share with him the little knowledge i could get to be useful. Anyway, it's funny you said im a techno fanboy :)
I said english is not my native language and on top of that its very difficult sometimes to clearly understand the tone of something written. So i wasn't really attacking you or provoking you in any way. I said i am sorry if im mistaken. I wasn't offended by your post, just thought it was not really constructive. There's no debate and i don't have the time to argue... especially if i don't give a damn. You can talk about your rig but i thought the tone was weird. I just thought that MAYBE you were coming here like the "know-it-all-and-got-everything-you-don't" and i wasn't sure if you were one of those kind of douche . But now I know, I was right. So please feel free to provoke me but there's a strong chance that i wont reply because i have other things to do in my free time. I only took my time and posted here to help someone asking for advice. Im not trying to prove that im right and that i got the best setup ever. Just calm down, take your pill and try to relax.
And I would have loved to grab the mic but i stopped smoking wannabees since im on nicorette.
I'd like to Thank everyone for their help, I've ordered everything and plan on building my new system this weekend. I've listed the components below including the cost in U.S. Dollars.
New Computer Build:
1. Cooler master ATCS 840 Full Tower Case - $185.00
2. PC Power & Cooling Silencer 910 watt PSU - $177.00
3. Asus P6T WS LGA 1366 Core I-7 Motherboard - $275.00
4. Intel Core i7-920 2.66GHz quad core processor - $212.00***
5. Crucial Ballistix Tracer Memory 6GB (2gbx3 kit) DDR-1333 - $157.00***
6. Plextor PX-880SA SATA 24x CD/DVD Writer - $50.00
7. Adaptec 29320ALP-R 320 SCSI Raid Controller - $99.00***
The total equals $1155.00, I feel good about building this good a computer that will give me a little expandability in the future for under $1200.
***
I plan on upgrading to a Intel i9 Core 6 core processor early next year (it's been promised by Intel to work in existing X58 LGA 1366 motherboards ::))
I plan on adding an additional 6GB of Crucial Ballistix Tracer Memory giving me 12GB total memory after I get the computer up and running and verifying everything works.
The SCSI Controller is so I can continue to use my Seagate 15k Cheetah Hard Drives. I plan on switching to an Intel SSD Drive when I go to Windows 7 64 bit.
i7 is definitely the way to go for now. TG2 actually doesn't scale well beyond 8 threads, and in most cases you see significant drop-off even after 4. The i7 actually seems to do quite well with 8 though. So with a 16 core system the best way to take advantage of all the power would actually be to run 2 instances of TG2. If you have no way to actually make that useful in a given situation, then it will be slower than the i7, which I would suspect is most of the time.
The other consideration is that each new thread needs its own cache space, so the more threads you have, the more memory you use, and since TG2 is not yet 64 bit, the more memory you use for non-scene elements (various caches basically), the less you have for the actual scene bits like objects, textures, terrains, etc.
Of course all this should change in the future. TG2 will be more optimized for multiple threads and 16 threads will work great. It will become 64 bit and this able to access as much memory as you can give it, and the cache size issue will no longer be a concern. But for now, i7 is definitely king of the heap for TG2.
I actually picked up a rather nice i7 system at a bargain from MicroCenter, a local Bay Area hardware retailer. It's usually in-store only, but you can get a complete i7 system with 6GB of RAM, decent graphics card, 640GB HD, etc for only about $800, which is something of a steal. http://www.microcenter.com/
- Oshyan
Dell has a Studio XPS i7 with 6 gigs, 640 gig harddrive, and a 20" monitor for $1099.
what you're all missing in your shopping cart is a very effective and very silent cooler. The stock cooler of the i7 sounds like a hair dryer. You need to find a way to vent the hot air from 130W out of your case, and you better do that as silently as possible. If you're running TG2 on 8 threats, the heat will be quite significant.
I have a good expereince with the thing from Noctua for the i7, but you need a spacey case.... which would be another thing on the shopping list that helps overall.
I mean, unless the server is parked in your cellar.... ;D
Cheers,
Frank
Which is another reason the Dell is surprisingly nice. It's not silent when it's cranking on all cylinders, but it's decently quiet to be sure. And it throttles down quite well, to nearly silent, when you're not working it hard. I didn't think I'd find myself recommending a Dell again after all the crap they put out there, but this is a solid machine at a great price.
- Oshyan
i bought my last computer from this website: http://avadirect.com/
they offer several different setups, you can customize your own, and they will either ship you the parts or build it for you (and test it too,)
I probadly won't be buying a new computer until some time into next year...