Here is the official thread for my new project, "Terracell". The name "Terracell" is a combination of the names Terragen and Lunarcell and pretty clearly illustrates its design goal: to be the Lunarcell for Terragen. In other words, a randomizable, modifiable, and user-friendly detailed planet-maker in Terragen 2. With the TGD file (to be released later), users will be able to create as great a variety of planets as they can with Lunarcell, but with the added realism and 3d-control granted by the powerful Terragen 2 software. Among these benefits are the ability to add multiple and colored light sources, render realistically from the surface of the planet as well as orbit, and deform the planet using displacement in ways Lunarcell could never dream of, among other things. I also plan on eventually including a basic, configurable ring later on, for those who want to easily create ringed planets.
Keep an eye on this thread for future updates.
Edit: Added a demo pic from version 0.24. Also, when there is a version to release, I will edit it into this message, so that it is at the top of the thread and easy to find. I may also put a link to it in my sig.
I can't wait to get my hands on this :). Thanks so much for taking the time to do this!
I really gotta keep an eye on this one ;D
I'm curious how things will turn out.
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=669.0
you can all see early screens here. :)
Regards,
Will
Ooooo this sounds fun :)
will love to see the first version in what i suspect will be a great....plugin? ???
or...whatever it be in terragen2
If you need alpha/beta testers... just let us know ;)
Great stuff!
Quote from: Mohawk20 on February 09, 2007, 05:49:27 PM
If you need alpha/beta testers... just let us know ;)
Great stuff!
yea, seriously we are here for you mate ;)
Regards,
Will
I followed the other thread with intrigue but didn't comment. Just like to say good on ya, and you have my support! :)
M.
Rob, I can't wait for this to come out... it's going to make this so much more fun. Need I say, I'm up for testing?
Simon.
neat render
regards,
Will
Thanks Will. ;D
Thanks for all the positive feedback everyone! :) Knowing there is support out there will help get me through the bumps I am sure to encounter on this project. I don't think I'll need testers until further along in the development process, but as it gets more complex I will have more to test. Right now its very simple, and I want to keep it as simple as possible in order to maximize usability as well as reduce render times. Around version 0.8 or so I will probably need a range of testers with different computer specs to get an idea of the average machine's render times with a mostly feature complete version of Terracell.
Neat, this certainly beats the ousted and outdated Lunar Cell stuff. ;D
Sorry, I'm just a little confused. This is just a .tgd file right, and not a plugin made with the SDK? So then you're basically just setting up a planet where we can click random seed to change the landmasses and adjust the displacement and water settings to change the look of the planet? How is this any different from me just going into TGTP, zooming way out, adding some water, and rendering a planet? I am familiar with LunarCell, so does that mean you are going to add support for city lights? Sorry, I guess I just don't get the point of this :(
Quote from: littlecannon on February 09, 2007, 07:06:41 PM
Rob, I can't wait for this to come out... it's going to make this so much more fun. Need I say, I'm up for testing?
Simon.
LOVE your moon man....DAMN!!!!
Melting - I'm assuming that this is just a .tgd, but creating a realistic planet is much more difficult than that. What Rob is trying to do is creating a planet that looks good everywhere from all heights. Thus, if you did an animation zooming down to the planet's surface, the planet would look realistic all the way from the continents to (say) the grains of sand on the beach you zoomed in to. This is really useful as a kind of template for creating worlds that need to be viewed from multiple scales.
Ah ok that makes more sense then, I can understand what you mean about it being realistic on every level because that really is a challenge.
Yep that's it. And it has already been quite a bit of work getting the continents to have realistic shapes. A plain global landscape fractal with oceans comes up looking pretty bad, and alot of getting the realistic shapes lies in scaling, warping and displacement. One of the earliest problems I had was that I was getting realistic continents but the mountains were extending way out into space, and oftentimes shots from about 20 miles inland with the sun overhead would have thin skies with very visible stars, basically the mean altitude of the landmasses was way too high. So there is alot of fine-tuning involved just to get things to a realistic level. I would also like to make the oceans as deep as they are on earth but it's not a priority. Few people are going to be trying to render underwater scenes -- though I will make Terracell to support them - right now average ocean depth is about 1.5km, whereas on earth it is 3.8km. - and its still pretty early. I may be able to get closer to realism as development continues. For now, the bigger priority is making sure the land altitudes are realistic. I don't want every continent's center to be an Everest, but I am also trying to avoid the Flatworld Tendency. I spent several hours yesterday fighting what I call "Australia Syndrome", that is an over-abundance of minor continents and no major continents. Think I got that worked out now, but still, a large part of it is random, so you never know what you will get. I have to do multiple renders from different seeds to get a feel for how each change has really effected things. Sometimes I get gigantic continents, while other times I get mostly ocean worlds, but most of the time I can get something close to earth's continents, which is the goal. And when I finish the mountian ranges shader, it will naturally modify the continent shapes as well as creating new islands and island chains.
Quote from: Rob Allen on February 09, 2007, 03:36:57 PM
Here is the official thread for my new project, "Terracell". The name "Terracell" is a combination of the names Terragen and Lunarcell and pretty clearly illustrates its design goal: to be the Lunarcell for Terragen. In other words, a randomizable, modifiable, and user-friendly detailed planet-maker in Terragen 2. With the TGD file (to be released later), users will be able to create as great a variety of planets as they can with Lunarcell, but with the added realism and 3d-control granted by the powerful Terragen 2 software. Among these benefits are the ability to add multiple and colored light sources, render realistically from the surface of the planet as well as orbit, and deform the planet using displacement in ways Lunarcell could never dream of, among other things. I also plan on eventually including a basic, configurable ring later on, for those who want to easily create ringed planets.
Keep an eye on this thread for future updates.
Edit: Added a demo pic from version 0.24. Also, when there is a version to release, I will edit it into this message, so that it is at the top of the thread and easy to find. I may also put a link to it in my sig.
Your idea its great for making TG2 easy to use for people that otherwise cant create their own views, terrain shapes atmosphere etc. I don't know about the "Terracell" name though, mixing a great piece of software with a cheap solution to create planet like moons (lunarcell) diminishes your project and gives the wrong idea about terragen. The generic Earth project or something along that line was much more expressive of what you are trying to accomplish.
A good point, but ultimately this is designed to be rather simple so that I can provide good render times from the start, and to allow users plenty of freedom to modify the base planet in very dynamic ways. So in that way it is very much like Lunarcell, a simple, easy to use system that lets you create acceptable looking planets with low render/drawing times. And, technically speaking, "Terracell" is an original name, even though it doesn't sound like it. Hmm, perhaps I should talk to Flaming Pear about possible endorsement... Then again, I'm doing this as a free project. Charging money for a tgd file seems a little ... questionable, at this point. Then again, depending on how sophisticated this project gets perhaps it's worth thinking about.
Either way, it'll still be cheaper than Lunarcell. ;)
Attached is an aerial render from a recent version of the tgd, demonstrating the current stage of development: mid-level terrain sculpting. (this render is from approx. 11km altitude, the standard cruising altitude of commercial jetliners)
excellent, I'm really happy your continuing with this project I think it will be a ton of fun to play around with.
Regards,
Will
It's a surprising amount of fun just creating the technical parts of the system, but yeah, I'm also looking forward to the point where I can just start playing with it.
I really wish I new more about programming, Its so much fun (at least at times) but my skill is still really limited.
regards,
Will
The project has finally hit version 0.25, and some milestones have been accomplished, as follows:
* Began basic implementation of non-biome dependent surface-level terrain features like hills, valleys, and ravines.
* Intermediate implementation of mountain ranges and peaks.
* Advanced implementation of continent shapes, islands, and archipelagos.
* Basic non-biome dependent surface colors implemented.
Still to be done:
- Refine surface-level terrain features.
- Implement biome map (goal for V0.3)
- Eliminate excessive occurances of "sand-dune" effects at low-altitude and surface levels.
- Refine default color scheme based on biome implementation
- Render times average at 30 mins for surface-level - try to improve
Your continents are looking really good right now. Will this be able to imitate the great plains and other flat places in addition to the mountainous terrain you've shown?
^ Good question, I agree with you that the contients are looking awsome. Keep it up man I really can't wair for this!
Regards,
Will
Yes, in fact in an earlier version it was doing that all over the planet. The continents themselves are basically finished, what I need to do now is refine the mountain shaders like I did with the continents to allow for more variety. Alot of this will also depend on biome-implementation, since for one thing, biomes let me very clearly see how altitudes are being handled from a global view, and the biomes themselves will modify displacement as well. The biomes will also eliminate alot of the patterning of certain flat surfaces, which you can see in the second pic, by basically covering the surface with a procedural texture, and later on, rocks and vegetation.
Good luck on trying to contact Flaming Pear. I have been trying that for years. I still think it is a 1 man operation behind all of those filters.
Question Rob.
Have you had any success on creating actual long mountain chain systems unless i missed that part somehow. :-[
I havent actually been looking for large mountain chains as such, but it appears that they are being generated based on the way the continents seem to form. I've noticed common occurances of peninsulas and archipelago's, which indicates that mountain chains are being formed. I use Perlin ridges for many parts of the larger-scale terrain generation, and thus, there should be chains forming. It's a rather difficult thing to check because they are so large, but that is one area that biome colorations will make much clearer.
Neat, keep it up mate!
Regards,
Will
been a slow post day, wonder why...
Oh and what are you planning to have on the interface? or is it too early to tell.
Regards,
Will
Interfaces are luxuries at this point. Right now, I just want to focus on finishing the TGD file. Once that's done, I would love to have a plugin or something that would allow a user to easily manipulate the TGD with some basic sliders/controls. Basically, instead of manipulating 10 different values to get your continents to have more satellite islands, or fewer, you could just move a slider in the plugin that says "amount of satellite islands". But I think the only way that's going to happen is if I can find someone who knows how to do that.
Progress update: I've implemented the initial stages of the climate mapping system, which will form the foundation of the soon-to-be-implemented biome distribution network. The climate mapping system largely determines temperature levels around the planet and is also directly responsible for creating and shaping the icecaps, including permafrost and snowfall. It will be used to map equatorial climates like jungles and deserts, seperating them from temperate climates like forests and grasslands. Arctic climates will most likely naturally occur as the temperate band thins into the icecaps. Most of these areas will be dominated by biome-less land (tundras), and some of the pole-ward forests will naturally blend into thier icecap's snowbound regions, creating alpine forests that thin out gradually.
I have included some renders illustrating the false-colored climate mapping system. The reddish/pink areas indicate hot regions where deserts, tropics, and swampland will appear, while the grey will be mostly occupied by temperate climates. The white areas indicate icecaps. There are also beaches, indicated by yellow areas along the coasts. These are more noticeable at lower altitudes and some of them span nearly 100 miles from the coastline, creating vast areas of inland dunes.
Excellent!, the climate maps seem to coming along well, as for an easyer way to se values you could try to somthing simular to 3Dguys crater maker where somone just inputs values and the code outputs the .tgc (or clip file in this case).
Regards,
Will
This looks fantastic. Out of curiosity, how are you arranging climate maps, using only nodes in TG2 or some other method?
Looks great... I guess the people from Planetside would like to help out with the sliders, you are doing most of the work.
This is awesome! I never thought this project would get this far, but you've made a whole lot of progress. The continents are starting to look quite realistic and the climate mapping is great. I'm guessing that you could create a standalone program that outputs the nodes to a clip file. It could be implemented as a plugin when/if the SDK ever comes out, or as a standalone program. If you're still looking for a way to implement an interface in a couple of months, I might have the time to try throwing something together in XCode.
Dang! Those climate maps are looking great. Good Job! ;D
Coohooool! ;D
Continent shapes and basic climate zone placement are really looking excellent. It's a "ground up" approach so it's hard to see "fantastic" (i.e. "wow that's realistic!") results right off, but for those that can see where it's headed (as I can), it's quite excitint. Keep up the great work!
For allowing easier (e.g. slider-based) control you could use the "macro" system we plan to implement. It will alow for "encapsulating" a group of nodes into a single parent node (much as Object nodes currently have internal networks) and then exposing some of the settings in a custom dialog similar to the node settings windows you use currently. This will be similar to how World Machine works, for example. A fairly sophisticated but simple to use and effective system.
- Oshyan
Oshyan is that going to be releasted before terragen 2 or will it be part of the final release?
Regards,
Will
Quote from: Oshyan on February 23, 2007, 07:39:40 PM
Continent shapes and basic climate zone placement are really looking excellent. It's a "ground up" approach so it's hard to see "fantastic" (i.e. "wow that's realistic!") results right off, but for those that can see where it's headed (as I can), it's quite excitint. Keep up the great work!
For allowing easier (e.g. slider-based) control you could use the "macro" system we plan to implement. It will alow for "encapsulating" a group of nodes into a single parent node (much as Object nodes currently have internal networks) and then exposing some of the settings in a custom dialog similar to the node settings windows you use currently. This will be similar to how World Machine works, for example. A fairly sophisticated but simple to use and effective system.
- Oshyan
That's perfect. It'll look a lot neater in the node tree display too. ;)
It will be an integral part of the final Terragen 2 commercial product. Specifics of its capabilities are not yet fully decided, but we hope to make it as powerful as possible of course.
- Oshyan
Thanks for all the positive feedback and support. That's part of what's kept this project going this far. When the project is closer to completion, I will start looking at options for interfaces. Based on what I've done so far, it seems that it will be necessary. Already simply randomizing the entire planet is an involved process of clicks. Let alone modifying certain features.
Rob,
I for one am very glad for the effort you've put into this project. I can't imagine the hours you've done! :o But, your efforts and the work of others in this forum is what makes the Terragen community so special. The talent in this group is astounding. So... yeah keep it up!
Gary
Quote from: Rob Allen on February 23, 2007, 09:12:19 PM
Thanks for all the positive feedback and support. That's part of what's kept this project going this far. When the project is closer to completion, I will start looking at options for interfaces. Based on what I've done so far, it seems that it will be necessary. Already simply randomizing the entire planet is an involved process of clicks. Let alone modifying certain features.
I'm just wondering if this project is still being developed. I think this was a really good idea, and I hope it hasn't died out. If you have decided not to work on this project anymore, Rob, then it would be great if you could share the .tgd files you've already developed.
Unfortunately my time has been dwindling lately due to other priorities. I've decided to release the tgd due to the fact that I may not be able to resume my work on this project for a while. It isn't complete by a long shot, but it's something, and you can pretty much use it to make realistic looking planets in space (they will still need some clouds tho). Anyhow, here it is along with a render:
Thansk for the .tgd, I'm sad that you can't continue the project as it showed a lot of promise. Heres hoping you get back to it one day!
Regards,
Will
Thanks for sharing the tgd. You've done some great work for the community - I hope you'll be able to come back sometime in the future :).
I do plan to, but I don't know when...
In the meantime, maybe the community can contribute to the project in my absence.
Just to let you know, WOW! This last image looks great. I think it's the base from which people can make they own planet. So this should be enough... a good time to take a break.
Thank you for you work so far, it's amazing!
Rob, thank you so much for this!
Ok guys so aside from everyone running away happy with Robs TG file, we can continue this effort by collaborating and improving on what he has put so much work on. So he can no loger work on this but there are lots of people interested in this and although I am still not happy with the "Terracell" name I will contribute with my piece of the puzzle.
First of all and very important is that Robs file its untouched meaning all components are there, just modifications to the settings to get rid of atmosphere patching and improving on the saturation. Also a bit of tweaking on the colors to display more realistic continents.
Besides that I added the cloud layer which was not there and set it up to produce a believable global distribution.
The cloud layer its a 2d cirrus layer as there is no point to slow the thing to a crawl by putting in a 3d layer that will not even show difference at this level.
So here is a quick render 42 minutes and the file ;D
Well edlo those clouds look really nice, but will they 'conform' to Rob's original design brief? (Self imposed).
QuoteAmong these benefits are the ability to add multiple and colored light sources, render realistically from the surface of the planet as well as orbit
Not in any way denigrating your contribution you understand, as a useless user,I am merely passing an observation. :)
Quote from: RedSquare on March 21, 2007, 12:33:04 PM
Well edlo those clouds look really nice, but will they 'conform' to Rob's original design brief? (Self imposed). Quoterender realistically from the surface of the planet as well as orbit
Well, I like this improvement very much, but you have a point. From the planet surface, I guess another layer of 3D clouds would be preferred. I don't know how much they will slow down a render. I am rendering an animation where the viewer jumps between planets. Closing in on the planet with the 3D clouds, the render starts to take more time more because of the terrain than because of the clouds.
Worth a try IMO...
Keep up the great work!
Quote from: RedSquare on March 21, 2007, 12:33:04 PM
Well edlo those clouds look really nice, but will they 'conform' to Rob's original design brief? (Self imposed). QuoteAmong these benefits are the ability to add multiple and colored light sources, render realistically from the surface of the planet as well as orbit
Not in any way denigrating your contribution you understand, as a useless user,I am merely passing an observation. :)
Have you done a render from the surface ? It doesn't render good from the surface as it is, then Robs file doesn't conform to his own original design, clouds or no clouds at this point it is only as Lunarcell is, worlds from space, by my testing so far either you optimize it for space view or for surface view. So there now you can go ahead and start working on those glitches ;D
Quote from: Mohawk20 on March 21, 2007, 12:45:12 PM
Quote from: RedSquare on March 21, 2007, 12:33:04 PM
Well edlo those clouds look really nice, but will they 'conform' to Rob's original design brief? (Self imposed). Quoterender realistically from the surface of the planet as well as orbit
Well, I like this improvement very much, but you have a point. From the planet surface, I guess another layer of 3D clouds would be preferred. I don't know how much they will slow down a render. I am rendering an animation where the viewer jumps between planets. Closing in on the planet with the 3D clouds, the render starts to take more time more because of the terrain than because of the clouds.
Worth a try IMO...
Keep up the great work!
Glad you like the result, as you are rendering an animation that will use what we learn here you can now add 3d clouds Ill be very interested to see if you can fix the patchy look it gives to the world from space
Quote from: edlo on March 21, 2007, 02:14:50 PM
Glad you like the result, as you are rendering an animation that will use what we learn here you can now add 3d clouds Ill be very interested to see if you can fix the patchy look it gives to the world from space
Well, I have very ugly planets, with very small features, and no continents. So I did not use what we learned here... yet. I have thought of some improovements for the next planet I make.
I only used it as an example for render times. The patchy look stays because I did not give it enough attention, and am rendering at relatively low resolution and quality to get those 1800 frames rendered within this month...
You will be able to see it when it's done, and then learn from it: How not to do it... :P
My only concern is that oneday this will be replaced by a more advanced version of the planet shader.
Regards,
Will
It would have to be much more advanced than it is now to beat this.
Quote from: Will on March 21, 2007, 03:32:52 PM
My only concern is that oneday this will be replaced by a more advanced version of the planet shader.
Well, you never know, perhaps this will become the new planet shader...
maybe, but it would need to be easyer to naviagte (eg sliders indead of individual nodes).
Regards,
Will
Is anything still happening with this project? ???
Its pretty much dead thouhg anyone is welcome to start it up again.
I was thinking of starting something like this up again..the diffrence was that would be a team hand completing a full planet.
I'm all for that idea - I wouldn't have much time to work on it myself in the foreseeable future, but I think it would be lots of fun and quite useful.
Perhaps you could make a new topic for it. I would be interested.
Seems like to me you did, nvseal. You had some really cool work happening not very long ago with this. Did it hit a major detour? It seems like it might be a lot of work.
Quote from: nvseal on July 04, 2007, 01:33:12 PM
Perhaps you could make a new topic for it. I would be interested.
It is indeed a lot of work. Daunting is a good way to descibe it. I outlined some of the issues in my post on the topic you mentioned. You can check them out here http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=1663.0
So did this project die? That would be a shame, really.
is this preject dead? i just found out about it at the first of this thread or whatever, and kept reading on, hoping to find a finished version. i was quite excited about it. i hope you can get back to it soon.
NVSEAL is now a member of NWDA. He is working on a Planetary Pack which has great promise from the images I have seen.