Planetside Software Forums

Support => Terragen Support => Topic started by: TheBlackHole on September 22, 2009, 03:57:57 pm

Title: Feature request
Post by: TheBlackHole on September 22, 2009, 03:57:57 pm
I'd like the next version of Terragen to have a similar interface to v0.9 and have all the capabilities of Terragen 2 and then some.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: Oshyan on September 22, 2009, 11:25:46 pm
Do you have any ideas for how to make the level of control and power that TG2 offers accessible and editable in such a simple UI as TG Classic?

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: SuperGriz on September 23, 2009, 01:45:27 pm
Having math all over the GUI is very intimidating for us non-math types. 

Drop down menus with function names that open edit windows would be helpful.  Sliders are easy to use.  The sliders in TG2 are very useful. Of course, it would be nice to know what many of them actually do.

I took an online course for TG2 beta and was producing satisfactory picture a few weeks.  http://artzone.daz3d.com/azfiles/gallery/mo/7k/swm98k60bqz2lswbob823y9zw7yhxs-full.jpg

Using TG v9 is like playing your old guitar.  TG2 is like a concert grand piano.   

It's a great program in any case.

Thanks for the new guides and tutorials.

Griz
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: neuspadrin on September 23, 2009, 04:48:54 pm
I found TG2 quite friendly to learn.  Sure, its learning curve is a tad steeper, but it does have way more features and power then .9. 

Also, there are drop down menus of functions, sliders, and they try to use terms that should be relatively easy to understand.

The only difficult thing is sometimes theres too many options and its hard to know which to play with and which you can ignore.  My overall way of learning was ignore it unless it sounded like something i needed to touch.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: Rhalph on September 25, 2009, 05:14:16 am
Quote from: TheBlackHole on September 22, 2009, 03:57:57 pm
I'd like the next version of Terragen to have a similar interface to v0.9 and have all the capabilities of Terragen 2 and then some.


I'd like the world peace and to win $200.000.000.000.
Wait, what, it's not possible? ;D
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: dandelO on October 01, 2009, 11:13:27 am
Quote from: Rhalph on September 25, 2009, 05:14:16 am
Quote from: TheBlackHole on September 22, 2009, 03:57:57 pm
I'd like the next version of Terragen to have a similar interface to v0.9 and have all the capabilities of Terragen 2 and then some.


I'd like the world peace and to win $200.000.000.000.
Wait, what, it's not possible? ;D


:D :D :D
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: TheBlackHole on October 02, 2009, 03:59:01 pm
Never mind, I learned Terragen 2. But it still would be nice. And I'm pretty sure not many people here play the guitar or a concert grand piano.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: N810 on October 02, 2009, 04:04:56 pm
Adding sliders,
simple descriprions,
the old color selector,
and familiar icons can't be that insurmountable ...  ???
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: neuspadrin on October 02, 2009, 04:35:05 pm
Quote from: N810 on October 02, 2009, 04:04:56 pm
Adding sliders,
simple descriprions,
the old color selector,
and familiar icons can't be that insurmountable ...  ???


Do we use a different TG2?  I enjoy the color selector on the new one (its a pretty standard color selector), theres sliders EVERYWHERE, icons are easy to learn (they needed more icons to show the various new items), and the descriptions might not be "simple" but thats because a lot of the time they represent complex things and need appropriate descriptions.

TG .9 was very easy to pickup, which was nice.  But it couldn't do anything CLOSE to what TG2 can produce.  With TG2 the main thing to learn is: if you dont know what it is, and you dont know if you need, dont use it.  A lot of settings TG2 offers can simply be left alone unless you know exactly what you want to make.  The trick really is just learning which ones you DO need to modify to get what you want.  

I still find the TG2 learning curve to be way below that of other 3d programs, but it still provides new things to learn way after getting a handle on the basics.

Its kinda comes down to:
Do you want simple, but not as good quality possible?
Or longer learning learning curve but insanely better possibilities?

If you fall in the first, keep to .9, otherwise take a little time and learn TG2.  It isn't as hard as it seems at first.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: TheBlackHole on October 04, 2009, 01:49:29 am
I'd like high power with a simple interface. As Obi-Wan Kenobi once said, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." So get out of your simple, black-and-white mindset and, just for once, allow a gray area to enter your mind. Plus, there's math all over the interface, and that cannot be tolerated by math-o-phobes like me.  :D And there needs to be a preview for all fractals, one that DOESN'T take an hour for Terragen to render. Spherical mapping needs to center the center of the map, NOT the north pole, in the camera. Is that so impossible? Is everyone who's developing Terragen too lazy to remove the huge concentration of interface math? I think NOT! So as soon as I finish this rant, I want everyone to stop thinking that what I want is "Feature Request Impossible"! OK, now I got that out of my system.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: TheBlackHole on October 04, 2009, 01:51:50 am
I'd also like worldwide water levels at the touch of a button. Chop chop.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: Henry Blewer on October 04, 2009, 08:31:59 am
You also could write your own landscape software to do everything you wish. There's a high learning curve. ;D
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: neuspadrin on October 04, 2009, 10:08:14 am
Quote from: TheBlackHole on October 04, 2009, 01:49:29 am
I'd like high power with a simple interface. As Obi-Wan Kenobi once said, "Only a Sith deals in absolutes." So get out of your simple, black-and-white mindset and, just for once, allow a gray area to enter your mind. Plus, there's math all over the interface, and that cannot be tolerated by math-o-phobes like me.  :D


I do a lot of programming, I'm a computer science major currently co-oping with IBM.  I understand the complexity and issues that come into place with programming features, and while yes its technically possible to make a "simple" ui, they would also have to destroy some of the power possible as they would have to remove the complex options. We arn't the best at simplifying something down and making stuff pretty/non math.  As math is what makes sense to us.  And math makes a lot of sense in this product.

Quote from: TheBlackHole
And there needs to be a preview for all fractals, one that DOESN'T take an hour for Terragen to render.

Uh... isn't there that whole "preview" of all shaders that happens? That you can also open inside a larger window if you want?

Quote from: TheBlackHole
Spherical mapping needs to center the center of the map, NOT the north pole, in the camera. Is that so impossible?


I don't know industry standard on that spherical mapping, but that might be changeable but it might also be against what the standard is.

Quote from: TheBlackHole
Is everyone who's developing Terragen too lazy to remove the huge concentration of interface math? I think NOT!


http://www.planetside.co.uk/content/view/24/40/

There is TWO programmers with planetside. What we have here is a very impressive product from such a small team.  They have a lot on their plates, getting features they promised in.  Simplifying the UI might happen sometime, but only once they finalize everything and get actual features in.  As it stands I find the ui is quite sufficient and easy to learn.  And a lot of us like having the math there as an option.  And its ment to be there as an option - ignore it if you dont understand it.  If you really need to understand it, learn it.  Math is EVERYTHING to do with how this stuff work, so completely ignoring math isn't so much an option.

They are not being lazy.

Only compromise i can think of is to have a "simple" mode that you can toggle into, which just hides a ton of options that generally are never needed.

Sorry if it sounds like I'm attacking you, really just trying to inform you that if it does happen, don't expect it anytime soon.  Planetside has a huge plate of work, and very small amount of programmers.  This isn't autodesk where you have thousands of people in charge of programming, ui specialists, etc.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: folder on October 04, 2009, 11:03:19 am
Quote from: TheBlackHole on October 02, 2009, 03:59:01 pm
Never mind, I learned Terragen 2. But it still would be nice. And I'm pretty sure not many people here play the guitar or a concert grand piano.



While I understand your analogy of using the guitar and the grand piano, it basically wrong.  t.09 was great, for its time and what it wanted to do, tg2 is lightyears ahead, and part of its complexity is inherent in its interface. it took me quite a while to learn it (it understand how pf worked, etc) i still am learning daily and because of its interface and its endless permutations. i am still interested.
as to the guitar part. I have been playing for over 30 years, mostly 40's and 50's bebop jazz (joe pass, kenny burrell, etc) it took quite a while to where i can play without thinking about it. the same is true of TG2, it's going to be quite a while until i under everything a fractal shader, redirect shader and other things can accomplish. but i prefer thinking to a blind point and click approach

david
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: TheBlackHole on October 04, 2009, 03:01:32 pm
I have almost no knowledge of programming. The only way I can create programs is with Visual Basic. And I almost NEVER use the code tab. Just the Design area.
Title: Re: Feature request
Post by: Henry Blewer on October 04, 2009, 04:17:35 pm
I used to program in assembler. Loved it. I hate C. I've tried Visual Basic; a friend of mine is an IT wizard at an insurance company, he recommended it. Python is neat, but I rarely use it. Rexx was very nice, do not know what happened to it. Used Modula 2, but found myself writing most of the 'need for speed' routines in assembler.
Anyway, Terragen 2 is sort of like programming. There is a flow which you develop when you work with it. Lately I have been trying to find the right combination of render settings to use on my old computer. I think I have that figured out now.
What I often do with T2 is pick a new shader or a function, and see what it does. When I think I understand it, I include it with other stuff I normally use. Of course, when I think I have figured out something Oshyan, Jo, or Matt post something which makes my assumptions completely wrong.... ::) 8)