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General => File Sharing => Topic started by: CCC on February 20, 2010, 10:29:02 PM

Title: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on February 20, 2010, 10:29:02 PM
I was quickly working on doing a ring without using any image imports. It works for sure but it lacks tiny ringlets of color and opacity changes which i can not figure out how to do so here is the file to modify with and hopefully someone can figure it out. Also why is there no shadow being projected from the ring over the planet?
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Henry Blewer on February 21, 2010, 12:15:09 AM
You may be able to stretch power fractals into a ring using functions, but I do not know how.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on February 21, 2010, 12:37:50 AM
I just applied power fractals to the disk object maker but when i use the opacity settings inside of the default shader with various power fractals it is either completely transparent or completely solid.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Henry Blewer on February 21, 2010, 01:28:09 AM
You might have to use image maps... I think there is a planetary ring scene over at NWDA. You may get some ideas from that.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on February 21, 2010, 03:23:51 AM
I did use an image map already and the same results. I'd like to try and stick with everything internally as much as possible.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 01, 2010, 11:37:55 PM
Try making an .obj with your  intended ring shape.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 02, 2010, 12:39:29 AM
That should not change on weather or not a projected shadow over the planet is there or not. Perhaps my sun angle is off. Still, my primary concern is transparency and ringlets.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 02, 2010, 09:12:21 PM
I wasn't talking about trying it to get your shadow. I meant to get ringlets and transparency.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 02, 2010, 09:51:37 PM
Still should make any difference anyways. Shaders are shaders.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 02, 2010, 09:54:00 PM
Anyways i tried stretching the noise along every axis is could mix and playing with various means of transparency using every shader i could use and nothing changes so it looks like this ring test is pointless because without that level of realism why bother.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 02, 2010, 10:39:34 PM
Brainwave... Back in a bit, if it works I'll be back in here shortly...
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: matrix2003 on March 02, 2010, 10:46:19 PM
Sending karma to Dandel0's brainwave.  Who's with me!   hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 02, 2010, 11:08:04 PM
Even with Caffeine i can't get this but dandelO to the rescue.    ;D
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 03, 2010, 12:46:54 AM
It's broken. See these quick renders.

[attachimg=#]
[attachimg=#]

The far side of each ring doesn't seem to render, no matter what angle the light is coming from. These are clouds, and brightly coloured just for easy editing as I test this out, each ring could use its own independent fractal for variation, here I just used one fractal.

I'll post the clip file of the planet, too. I can't work out how to render the rings on the opposite side of the planet from the camera, maybe someone can find a remedy quicker.

The secret is in the cloud fractal shader's blending shader node. You can't exceed the limits of the 'spacing' value in the 'Main contour' field of inputs and you must use 'Y for altitude' and match that in relation to the ringed planet's altitude. For testing this out this is a tiny planet of 20m radius, its 'Y' value in the scene is 30m. So, I need a 'base altitude' in the contour shader of 10m to bring the rings into the centre, instead of at the top and bottom of the planet.

The contour shader is set to twice the planet radius. If you breach the 'spacing' of the contours with the 'thickness' of the contour shader, it'll also apply rings at the top and bottom of the planet too. Just use careful adjustments to keep it all in line with the planet's radius.

Just tidying it up, maybe someone can fix the rendering issue. I've tried ray tracing the clouds, it doesn't help it. All the ring layers also use no acceleration and have ray traced shadows checked to get the planet to cast onto them, I can't figure out the missing areas...

 
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 03, 2010, 01:06:50 AM
* You can also change each ring layer's distance, make them wider in size or even intersect each other in each cloud's altitude and depth settings to make them appear inside each other. Ring size and distance is also relative to planet radius.

This clipfile planet will appear at XYZ = 0m,30m,0m.(Thirty metres above the bottom corner of the main heightfield shader in a default scene). It's only for testing on, that's why it's so small. This should work at any scale as long as you use relative values for the contour shader and the planet's 'Y' value.

[attachimg=#]

I just wish it worked fully without these missing parts in a render. It's a nightmare when something doesn't work as I think it should! :D
Is it a bug or am I doing something wrong? I usually do. :-[

EDIT: I should've said: To see what the contour shader is actually doing while editing its spacing and thickness, just plug it into the planet 'surface shader' input instead of the power fractal. You'll then have an idea where the rings will appear.

* Also, need to work on rotating them. These ones won't tilt.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 03, 2010, 01:41:51 AM
Thank you for the effort.    :)

Never would have considered using clouds but it would look better then using a ordinary power fractal anyways because say the cloud samples are real low then it might look like fine particles like a real ring. As far as the far side that is odd. I wonder if it could be a x z axis issue?

Rotating would be nifty.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Kadri on March 03, 2010, 03:32:04 AM
I looked at it a little. I don't know why the far side of the view don't appear .
But it seems like it is related to the Camera(render) view . Wherever you put the Camera the far side don't appear.
Kind of a Atmosphere Camera related thing.  Maybe not a bug but the way TG2 calculates things (atmosphere-clouds etc.) ?
Only a guess of course. Can be anything  :)

Kadri.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 03, 2010, 12:04:15 PM
It's really frustrating, I can render it fine with the camera above. It seems that if any of the cloud is obscured by the planet in the distance, it just won't render.

I'd really like to use this method on a proper scaled scene, I'll post a support topic incase this doesn't get noticed by PS in here. I'd like to know how to fix this.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Kadri on March 03, 2010, 12:07:49 PM
Interesting ! I didn't tried from above DandelO .
I am curious too why this happen .

Kadri.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 03, 2010, 12:09:31 PM
It could be a clipping issue with the render camera. Sometimes in Blender, I have to adjust this to encompass the whole scene.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 03, 2010, 12:41:17 PM
Here's where it starts to cut off.

[attachimg=#]

It seems the planet doesn't need to be directly in front for it to happen, all rings should be visible in this view.

Henry, I only know how to adjust camera clipping in the preview. I can't see any clipping options for the render camera. Still, these aren't far distances, the scene is to a small scale.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Kadri on March 03, 2010, 02:59:43 PM
... Still, these aren't far distances, the scene is to a small scale.

Did you tried it with a bigger scale Planet , DandelO ?

Kadri.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 03, 2010, 04:43:30 PM
Of course, Kadri. ;) The small scales were just to easier get my head around the concept.

Here's a proper planetary scaled test. Same issue. :(

8492 cloud samples for this test!

[attachimg=#]
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Kadri on March 04, 2010, 12:15:11 AM
Hmm... It's really frustrating !

Kadri.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: FrankB on March 04, 2010, 06:54:35 PM
why not use rock populations? Like in the free Class M Planets pack at NWDA?
Sure it can be fine tuned further, but it's actually really easy to set up.

Frank
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 04, 2010, 09:40:41 PM
Frank has good advice. :D

I'd still like to get this method to render correctly, I can think of some fantastic effects with cloud layers as rings. Hopefully there's a solution in the pipeline to both the disc object and the cloud method aswell.

The class-M planet rings method with populations is great, too. And probably the most realistic for now. You'll need millions of instances, mind you.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 05, 2010, 03:36:13 AM
I would not mind the rock populations but i would like to have a fine dust as in a real ring, in case i want to do close-ups. I do not think i can get away with so many tiny scale rocks for objects no larger then a meter.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 05, 2010, 08:16:09 AM
You can set up a camera at the location you want to see the dust. Then you a distribution shader to limit the dust to an area whee it would be visible.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Ogre on March 05, 2010, 04:52:29 PM
I played around and it seems like the contour shader was causing issues.  Here is another potential method if you want to deal with functions.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 05, 2010, 08:03:56 PM
OK, full-sized planet please....
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 05, 2010, 09:26:44 PM
I extended the ring a bit larger then the planet size which is now using the default planet being active and the atmosphere, however the ring boundarys being visible yet the ring itself is not. I made sure the size of the ring is larger then that of the planet.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 06, 2010, 04:26:00 AM
Try increasing the cloud layer's Altitude and Depth to infinity, or as close to it as you can get.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 06, 2010, 04:49:05 AM
Cloud alt and depth are at 9e+008. Nothing is visible.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 06, 2010, 05:00:56 AM
Ohhh. Just figured it out: The Simple Shape shader draws shapes on the planet surface. It doesn't extend into space.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 06, 2010, 05:24:16 AM
But the smaller version that Orge was working on was going into space unless it has altitude limitations for some reason.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 06, 2010, 12:11:52 PM
Nice one, Ogre. I'm also still playing around with alternative distribution methods of clouds for this. That's a good workaround to the contour shader method, more nodes to control, though. :)
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 06, 2010, 06:46:05 PM
It's actually even simpler than that, thanks, Ogre.
The simple shape-merger can be used as the blender on its own to a surface layer with the cloud fractal as colour function.

I'm finding the cloud ring cut-offs are coming from bad cloud height/depth settings, rather than the contour shader. The closer to the centre of the planet you set the height - the more cut-off there is behind the planet. The contour shader method relies on the ring layers being constrained within it's own limits. This makes it a very tight squeeze.

I'm going to test with 4x larger contour spacings and offsets to see if it helps, the rings can then be wider and, hopefully, not cut-off...

[attachimg=#]

[attachimg=#]

Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 06, 2010, 07:48:41 PM
Even simpler yet. You only need one simple shape shader, the cloud's height/depth settings will suffice to stop it appearing close to the planet.

This is a single cloud layer, not multiple rings. The appearance of banding is from a sin function blending of the density fractal.

[attachimg=#]

[attachimg=#]

[attachimg=#]

Thanks, Ogre, for steering me away from the contour shader! :)

I love how problems just get worked out in here and everyone chips in with new and better ways to do things and overcome issues. This is one of those things! Let's pat ourselves on our collective back! Ahh, I can hear the rumbling, like a power fractal! :D

Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 06, 2010, 08:19:55 PM
Brilliant!
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Kadri on March 06, 2010, 09:44:14 PM

Nice  :)
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 06, 2010, 09:45:16 PM
Hopefully, i can get those ringlets in there as well and translucency.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 07, 2010, 12:52:18 AM
Not a ring but this could make well for a weird halo around any planet.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 07, 2010, 03:37:22 AM
Nice one, dandelO! The planet still looks like a small-scale model, though. I'll download it and see....
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 07, 2010, 12:16:20 PM
It is still a small planet model, that's why it looks like it. ;)
Just scale up the settings. Make a duplicate and multiply all the appropriate inputs relatively.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBlackHole on March 07, 2010, 07:25:43 PM
I'm confused. You made it, and can understand what's going on here. I, on the other hand, don't. I prefer to solve problems in terms of power fractals and distance shaders. Can't you scale it up to full size? I'm too confused to scale up all the settings.
EDIT: Just got an idea. I'm trying it now. >:( Didn't work.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 07, 2010, 08:26:54 PM
When I get a bit of spare time I'll make a full sized example version. Maybe later tonight, probably tomorrow.
I'm wrestling with some cumulus cloud at the moment or I'd do it now... :)
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 07, 2010, 09:26:46 PM
Don't feel to disappointed about this. I tried scaling up there sizes as well. I made sure the ring were larger then the full-scale planet. I can see the boundary lines but when rendered nothing would show.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 07, 2010, 10:34:15 PM
I'm on it now, next few minutes. You might be pleased to know that the setup was over complicated before, the simple shape shader isn't required at all(I'm still using its inverse to remove an empty space around the planet, this means that you can use a cloud height of 0 and no need to work out weird e+00x numbers for that parameter). The surface layer altitude constraints do a grand job on their own...
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 07, 2010, 11:01:46 PM
OK.

Here's a true planetary scaled version(default TG new planet size). This is an easy way to lay a ring around the planet using a cloud layer.

The surface layer's altitude constraints supply the cloud's Y-cut-off limits, the simple shape shader now only describes where clouds shouldn't render. You'll notice shadow casting from both directions - from planet and from ring. Enable ray traced shadows in the cloud layer for this effect.

Again, this is only one layer, you could add as many intersecting cloud layers as you want or, use some kind of circle function for distribution of the same layer, it's up to yourself and whatever you need. This is just an example to build on or use as a reference.

You'll need to assign your own ring distribution functions etc.(like I did with the sin functions above) but this is a basic form for laying a ring layer around the planet using clouds. Nearly 10,000 samples! Lucky it's only a shallow layer, eh! ;)

[attachimg=#]

[attachimg=#]

* You might try rendering this from beneath the planet, I haven't tried that yet so, any render errors, let me know and I'll see if I can iron them out...
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 07, 2010, 11:16:50 PM
* Seems almost fine from below the planet. I've spotted a strange line of lighting across the planet's surface, though. I'll try to work out what's causing this tomorrow...

[attachimg=#]

Thanks for the prodding, AL33, I would have never attempted this if not for reading your first post. :)
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 07, 2010, 11:34:29 PM
No worries, i will try and get a nice surface render going here. 
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 08, 2010, 01:11:36 AM
Alright, how do you apply the ring to the default planet and dump the second planet? I want the ring and a atmosphere as well. I tried re-routing all of the second planet internals to the the default planet but the ring size needs to be readjusted as right now the sizes allude me and i can not set my camera position on the surface as the current camera position is all weird. No rush to get this figured out today.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 08, 2010, 01:28:12 AM
The default planet's scale is the same as a new planet's scale - Radius = 6.378e+006. You should be able to cut the internal nodes of my uploaded planet and paste them inside the default planet(or, just paste them after the default atmosphere in the main network view) and zoom out for the same effect.

I'm rendering overnight just now, I'll give it a proper go tomorrow. To get the co-ord's for the simple shape shader cloud removal mask, enable 'show b-box in preview' on the default planet and copy the co-ord's from the centre of that to the simple shape shader to line it up correctly... I think that should work correctly.

You'll also need to edit the surface layer's altitude constraints to match the default planet's 'Y' value, it's set up for the floating second planet just now. A little on either side of centre is all you need, see the constraints in the example file, in relation to the example planet's 'Y' value...
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 08, 2010, 01:32:19 AM
OK, i'll see what happens then. Thank you.   
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 08, 2010, 02:01:00 AM
Well, i am very certain i have all of the sizes down according to what you said but here is what i did in case i might have overlooked something.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 08, 2010, 03:30:02 AM
You know what. I did not have ray traced shadows check marked in the original file i had posted.  ::)  One other issue i am having is no color is showing on the ring itself.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 08, 2010, 08:26:01 PM
In your last post, the sunlight is significantly below the ring. It can't illuminate the ring's top surface from beneath, this is why you don't see any colour on the ring.

I've scaled up the power fractal, it was very small at default size.
If you really need to keep the same sun position, use a little luminosity in a default shader, like this edited.tgd uses.(this will stop you getting much shadow from the planet, mind. I'd raise the sunlight and forget the luminosity for best effect).

Also, I've used the opacity channel to remove some parts of the ring so it looks like it's made up of lots of little pieces and not just a solid ring(this doesn't seem to translate to the ring's shadow, though, sorry).

[attachimg=#]

[attachimg=#]
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 08, 2010, 08:33:40 PM
In your last post, the sunlight is significantly below the ring. It can't illuminate the ring's top surface from beneath, this is why you don't see any colour on the ring.

Sheesh, i should have known the obvious.    ;D

As for the file, looks good and once again i will get down to the surface and see what happens.

Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 08, 2010, 08:39:28 PM
If you stay in the hemisphere above the ring, you should still see it, if you're below it, you'll need to invert the 'Y' axis of the disc(to -1). It's only single sided(and place your sun beneath it again, of course). ;)
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 08, 2010, 08:43:16 PM
Groovy.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 09, 2010, 03:39:58 AM
Walking along the surface i stood in the shadow of a ring.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 09, 2010, 09:34:35 AM
I thought this was nifty as well.

Still need to improve the overall look of the ring. It needs depth and color.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Kadri on March 09, 2010, 10:15:07 AM

Interesting , AL33  :)
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Ogre on March 09, 2010, 07:45:05 PM
Worked out good. Like the results.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: CCC on March 09, 2010, 08:29:55 PM

Interesting , AL33  :)

Thank you. I want to do something complete with this on the surface but at the moment i am having population troubles.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Ogre on March 09, 2010, 08:48:56 PM
Lower the cloud density, removed the cloud fractal, added atmosphere to planet 2 and took a shot near the surface.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 09, 2010, 09:03:37 PM
...And made yourself a lovely night-rainbow!

Nice results, Ogre. It's a good technique, eh?
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Ogre on March 11, 2010, 02:49:55 PM
Yup, works great. I played some more thinking the Y restrictions would be all that is needed and the ring would be limited by the top and bottom of the cloud layer but it seems to not work unless the Simple shader is involved. Great job.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: dandelO on March 11, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
I used it fine without the simple shape shader. I only ended up using it again to remove a portion of space around the planet.

The surface layer, while using 'Y for altitude' should restrict the thickness of the ring fine. The cloud top and bottom is measured from the surface normal of the ringed planet planet.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBadger on December 30, 2013, 07:47:58 PM
Was wondering how to add tilt to these here examples?
I have been using fake rocks as a ring controlled by simple shapes and got tilt within the rock object pannel. But clouds do not have a parameter for tilt. What node can I add that will allow me to gain that kind of control over the clod ring in space?
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Ogre on January 09, 2014, 05:28:29 PM
Here is a project file. Real busy at work so couldn't strip it down for you.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBadger on January 09, 2014, 07:19:20 PM
Thank you, Ogre.

I will have a good look at this!
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBadger on January 10, 2014, 03:21:50 AM
Yep, that does it!

THanks for sharing it, Ogre.

By the way, I saw in your file some real interesting names of ships. Did you ever post a finished image from this file with those other elements in it?
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Dune on January 10, 2014, 07:52:42 AM
I saw some add color nodes, but you can stack the simple shapes if you untick the black... less nodes.
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: Ogre on January 10, 2014, 03:40:13 PM
Dune - Thanks I will take a look when I have some time

Badger - http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,16273.msg159076.html#msg159076
I posted the object some time ago at terragen.org. Haven't been there in some time so not sure if it is still available.  I also mode changes to the one I posted. PM me and I can send you that latest TGO file
Title: Re: Planet Ring
Post by: TheBadger on January 10, 2014, 08:23:00 PM
Ah cool. I did see that once before. I thought I recognized those names. Wish you had time for a complex animation!

Thanks for the hint, Ulco.

Good times!