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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: Amenbrick on March 25, 2010, 05:28:19 am

Title: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 25, 2010, 05:28:19 am
Hi, I'm a very inexperienced user (can do basice dirt and snow landscapes) who is involved in a project to make a planet that is mostly flat and where people live in extensive connected fertile canyons or 'cracks'.  

I tried to make a canyon, but it ended up as a very straight trench, which was too unnatural.

Any tips?

Edit; oh I am on the Free version.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 25, 2010, 05:56:11 am
Welcome to the forums :)

To create extensive connected canyons I'd suggest to start with this shader:

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6432.0 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6432.0)

This shader creates cracks which also don't look too straight.
"Simply" increase the scales to your taste (I'd make them around 2-3 kilometer-scale at least If I understand your idea correctly). Don't forget to scale the displacements, set in the 2 surface layers, accordingly.
You now have huge cracks which you can use as a base for the canyon.

To add detail to the walls you can use a redirect shader (under displacement shaders) to displace the vertical walls.
Attach a powerfractal to the X and Z port of the redirect shader and play with the scales. In general a nice start is to have the displacement factor half the size of your feature scale.

This should get you started I think :)
I'd like to see how this works out for you. If you need any help then let me know. I've made a couple of canyons myself too.

Cheers,
Martin
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 25, 2010, 06:13:37 am
 :D Thanks for quick reply.  Off to do.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 25, 2010, 08:47:07 am
Did this in the meantime.  Wouldn't mind a river at the bottom, but I find the lake a bit cumbersome.  I suppose I;ll have to work on it.  This is from a Volker terrain (coloured by me).
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/canyonwithoutwater.jpg) (http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/?action=view&current=canyonwithoutwater.jpg)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 25, 2010, 02:22:51 pm
Struggling to find the scale increasers.   Getting some very spiky results.   The mystery would disappear with the rule book, I know, but if anyone could help me out here, you'd have my warm thanks.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 25, 2010, 04:01:49 pm
I'll prepare you an example...hold on...
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 25, 2010, 04:51:53 pm
Something in this direction?
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 25, 2010, 04:57:32 pm
Make the spike and roughness of the displacement tab of the power fractals very small. This will help the spikiness.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 25, 2010, 06:55:40 pm
Quote from: njeneb on March 25, 2010, 04:57:32 pm
Make the spike and roughness of the displacement tab of the power fractals very small. This will help the spikiness.


Ghehe, well thanks Henry :) but that's not the issue here. He's trying to find a principle to create his idea, which I offered. Technical details etc. are up to himself :)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 26, 2010, 05:29:36 am
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 25, 2010, 04:51:53 pm
Something in this direction?


That's awesome.   Something like that but with the canyons a bit more connected.  
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Tangled-Universe on March 26, 2010, 05:36:58 am
Here's the .tgd, it contains some explanation on the most important stuff.

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4484.msg98454#msg98454 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4484.msg98454#msg98454)

Martin
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 26, 2010, 07:53:28 am
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 26, 2010, 05:36:58 am
Here's the .tgd, it contains some explanation on the most important stuff.

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4484.msg98454#msg98454 (http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=4484.msg98454#msg98454)

Martin


Bless you and all who sail in you.  ;D
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 26, 2010, 11:32:48 am
Isn't that a quote about the Bucket woman? (Keeping Up Appearances)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 26, 2010, 01:01:13 pm
Bugger, that's my secret out.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 26, 2010, 01:43:34 pm
lol ;D
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 26, 2010, 04:05:05 pm
I found these, if any other nubs wander in with the same question.

http://en.tgblog.de/?p=26=1  <  walkthrough of how to make a single canyon with two heightfields.

http://en.tgblog.de/?p=27&cpage=1#comment-606  < step by step voronoi dried clay.  Scale it up.

previous contributors where helpful, but no-one were pitched at quite the right level for me, i.e. stunned monkey.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 11:12:17 am
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/canyontwo.jpg)

First original canyon, using the heightfield method above    Anyone one know why overhangs and such are only on one side?  Here is the map:

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/canyonsheet.png)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Primalace on March 31, 2010, 11:23:37 am
Are your twist and shear shaders working in opposite directions? You might need to have two different heightfield generators and make sure the merge shader is set to highest (raise).
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 12:55:21 pm
merge shader is set to highest (raise)


Managed to get it to loom in the right direction, by doing what you suggested with the twist and shear.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/canyon3.jpg)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 12:57:55 pm
next issue... on the vohnoi page, I ended up with this

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/gonewrongsomewhere.jpg)

instead of the nice dried mud they get.


(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/voronoi3.png)

Compare and contrast our work flows... where have I gone wrong

theirs:

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/voronoi2.png)

mine

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/gonewrongmap.png)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Primalace on March 31, 2010, 01:17:54 pm
Did you also copy the values used in each of the nodes? Might be that the scale is off and if you zoom in you'll see the cracks?
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 01:28:15 pm
Quote from: Primalace on March 31, 2010, 01:17:54 pm
Did you also copy the values used in each of the nodes? Might be that the scale is off and if you zoom in you'll see the cracks?


None were given... the first time i did it, it worked (up to the subtract), but something went wrong after I fiddled. I restarted and couldn't get it.  I didn't need zooming in that first time.

I messed about with the xyz on the canyon wall and got it to really loom, though it looks a bit samey.
(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/canyon4.jpg)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Primalace on March 31, 2010, 02:49:58 pm
I've attached a clip file that has values set up for around 1-2 metre cracked mud. It should be self explanatory when you insert the file. You can adjust the placement via changing the surface layers properties.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 04:01:45 pm
cheers
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 04:47:47 pm
ok, that worked to a point.  I made it bigger and I zoomed in.

I wanted to rough up the canyons and thought I could do it like I did on the heightfield canyons, above, with redirect shaders, but it says I can't because my compute terrain is not connected to my planet.  Is there another way to make the close up canyons realistic or have I missed something?
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on March 31, 2010, 08:03:46 pm
Ok worked that out.

Next problem.   How to make this roughing up... more rough (the preview looks great, the render not so much).    And why will it not let me colour by altitude.  Instead I can only do this wierd war paint thing by slope restraints.

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/rough.jpg)

(ignore the globe for now, it's my next thing... how to change its surface).
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on March 31, 2010, 09:49:38 pm
The Surface Shader has a tab, Altitude Constraints. I use this for creating color layers. The key for getting nice tight layers using this is the Min and Max fuzzy zone inputs/sliders. If you set the lowest layers max height to 200m and the max fuzzy zone to 0, no color will be above 200m. On the next Surface Layer, set the min height to 200m with 0 min fuzzy zone. This will start the next color at 200m.

Continue doing this for as many layers as you like; setting the min and max altitude. Each min altitude is the previous surface layers max altitude. I use obnoxious contrasting colors to test the layers, then change them to the proper colors when I am happy with the setup.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on April 01, 2010, 05:17:57 am
Quote from: njeneb on March 31, 2010, 09:49:38 pm
The Surface Shader has a tab, Altitude Constraints. I use this for creating color layers. The key for getting nice tight layers using this is the Min and Max fuzzy zone inputs/sliders. If you set the lowest layers max height to 200m and the max fuzzy zone to 0, no color will be above 200m. On the next Surface Layer, set the min height to 200m with 0 min fuzzy zone. This will start the next color at 200m.

Continue doing this for as many layers as you like; setting the min and max altitude. Each min altitude is the previous surface layers max altitude. I use obnoxious contrasting colors to test the layers, then change them to the proper colors when I am happy with the setup.


I got this but the alts is so low, like 30m or so.   Despite the scalar being set at 2000 and the main surface layer being displaced to 7500.    I thought they set the height and this would be higher?   

(http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j238/Latics/canyonbetter.jpg)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 01, 2010, 06:05:39 am
Could you post your TGD file in the file section. I'll take a look at it. Then set up things how I do them. I'll post an explanation also.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on April 01, 2010, 09:12:08 am
sure, didn't know i could do that...
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 01, 2010, 12:05:25 pm
I'll have something for you tonight (EST)
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Amenbrick on April 01, 2010, 03:47:44 pm
Thanks!  Though don't knock yourself out, Easter weekend means no free time to do anything with it.
Title: Re: Want to make canyons
Post by: Henry Blewer on April 01, 2010, 11:15:06 pm
Here's a link to a step by step group of tgd's of how I make canyons.

http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=9344.msg98985#msg98985

I hope this helps. My method is quite different from the file you posted.