Hi everyone,
I think it might be high time to launch another NWDA image contest.
This time, we're up for a new idea, a different type of contest. I would like to test the idea with you, and you tell us what you think about that.
The contest is so unusual that I'm struggling to give it the correct title.
Let's call it a "NWDA & Planetside True 3D and Animation Contest".
The idea is the the following: Every contestant creates a custom scene, with a strong focus on realism. However, other than the usual still, your scene needs to hold up from different camera positions and angles. Every contestant creates 6 shot each with a different camera position and perspective, with these 6 shots mimicking stations of a camera animation path.
You would put these 6 shot together into one image that you submit, and it would be like a little animation story board.
The winning scene and story board will be fully animated, as the winning prize (along with a few other prizes probably). Oshyan from Planetside was so gracious to offer his time and rendering computer resources to create a full camera animation based on your scene & story board, and render away. The winning, final animation would get full visibility on the Planetside and NWDA websites, and potentially in other places (if there's an opportunity for that). At least, that's the plan so far.
The way the contest works, we think everyone can participate, no matter if you have the animation version of Terragen 2 or not, no matter whether you have the deep or free version.
So your turn now: what do you think about that? Sound good? Are you interested? Any questions or suggestions regarding this contest idea?
Best regards,
Frank
Good idea to get some feedback from the community on this. Personally I'm really excited about the possibilities. I see the results of this contest being a great showcase for what TG2 and our community members can do.
I see a lot of people here either without the animation version, or just concerned about render time to make anything of quality in an animation, so normally a contest for animation hasn't seemed possible. But if we can shoulder some of the burden of rendering and setup on our end, perhaps it can work? I hope so!
My thought on the 6 images would be that they can be lower resolution/detail, so that render time is not prohibitive. Unlike other contests, this isn't something you might be rendering at super high resolution and detail. In the end the render settings will need to be highly tuned to animate well anyway (and at acceptable render time), so the render settings for the submission don't matter as much, as long as they show what the scene has to offer if animated.
The other thing is obviously this means you'd be sharing your scene (TGD) and any objects you use with Planetside. We will of course not be using them for any purpose other than animating and rendering your scene. If you're not comfortable with that, or there are legal issues (e.g. use of proprietary objects like Onyx Tree), then you may not be able to participate. But hopefully that won't be a problem for many people. Planetside will have to err on the side of caution for legal use issues of course, so make sure you have the rights to use the materials in your scene.
Looking forward to hearing what you all think!
- Oshyan
*i almost posted this in the Next/Previous Keyframe Keyboard Command? thread* :D
I'm thinking im going to give this contest a go, maybe actually
& just started on new rendering project
i like the idea of having 6 images, like a story board. i think its a interesting idea.
is their a deadline set for it yet?
great you like the idea - no deadline set, as of yet. Also, no detailed contest rules written up so far.
Like the last contest, I think we would give it 2 months. How does that sound?
One thing we need to clarify if there is generally enough interest to run this contest, is how many frames the animation will be long. This will greatly impact on how far you would move the camera, for example...
Thanks,
Frank
Good idea. I'm working on a forest planet with icecaps and water right now. Not much luck with the ice, though. Oh well, back to Terragen....
If 1280 x 720 could be a image resolution for the contest, I'm in. Rendering larger takes a long time for me.
Honestly I'd say 1280x720 (720P high definition) would be a *maximum*. Rendering at HD is rather time consuming. I don't think I could make any guarantee that the resulting animation would be HD, although I'm hopeful. 720x480-ish (DVD resolution) would be a good baseline.
- Oshyan
This sounds like fun. I'm in.
Me too, if I find the time (and the right 'world')... exciting idea!
very good idea !
i have to say that 720p animation is very very long to render, even with optimised values...
Cool. That resolution (720 x 480) renders with reasonable speed on my system.
I was thinking the still submissions could be low res HD, just for the posts so people can show off their talent better.
As long as the scene is up to us individually this could be great. I wouldn't like to see one type or one scene that everyone does.
the choice of scenery would be completely open, just like last time.
However, like last time, we would be looking to accept only "final" work, in the sense of that it has to reach an acceptable minimum quality threshold. Look at the last year's contest gallery, to see what I mean. I think we haven't been judging too hard at all, but we would reject "default render with modified sun elevation" type renders :D
Like last year, we would encourage everyone to share their ideas and render works in progress over time. You know, other image contests have that rule that the submitted artwork must not have been posted elsewhere before, but we don't care, and in fact promote the opposite. I recall that last year, specifically those participants who have posted their works in progress here, received a bulk load of helpful critique and tips, and the end result was so much better than their first versions.
This year we're in the happy position to be able to increase the max image file size to 1 MB per submission, so that image quality concerns from compression that were present in the last contest, should become a concern of the past.
I also suggest that the submitted storyboard must be in the format 1680x746 (the screen width of many wide screen monitors out there). That would leave room for the 6 shots each 560x373 px, arranged in 2 rows and 3 columns. That's an aspect ratio of 1.5 per shot.
Regards,
Frank
OK, this may sound like a stupid question, but are the contest entries supposed to be posted here, or at Ashundar?
Sounds like a cool idea for a contest to me.
Quote from: TheBlackHole on April 11, 2010, 09:58:13 AM
OK, this may sound like a stupid question, but are the contest entries supposed to be posted here, or at Ashundar?
Not a stupid question, but final submissions will be made to an email address we'll announce later, and in progress work you can post where you wnat, but I suggest it should be posted around here.
It sounds like an intriguing, creative idea for a contest. I'm not sure if I'll have time to participate, but I'd be more than willing to cheer people on from the sidelines!
I learned quite a lot about Terragen 2 last year. Largely to input from other users. (Not to mention Frank pushing hard for he best quality image I could then produce! ;D)
1680 seems like a kind of arbitrary width IMO, since many larger monitors actually support the more standard 1920x1080 (so-called "1080P") resolution, which gives you a more standard 640 pixel width for 3 columns. Also your calculated image ratio for the 6 frames is different than any standard ratio (e.g. 16:9, etc.). So I'd suggest 640x360 times 3 columns, 2 rows = 1920x720. Woo!
I know, small details. ;D
- Oshyan
Excellent idea :)
Something I have been aiming towards for quite some time now is an animation combining several terrains types, hills, mountains, desert etc. One issue has always been that having multiple terrains adds a fair amount to the render time for each extra terrain type. Here's a challenge and a solution all rolled together, could be a great opportunity ! :)
There's a lot of talent here so I'm sure we'll be in for some treats:)
It'll also be interesting to see how people optimise their projects for animating.
Richard
I like this idea too :)
- Terje
A couple of questions :)
Do you have an idea how long an animation should be? It shouldn't be too limiting, a given length plus or minus a a few seconds (45sec +/- 10sec for example).
Regarding using models and licensing (Oshyan mentioned this) how do render farms work this out. Many people have bought the XFrog bundle or use Onyx Tree amongst other packages, not just Terragen users, how do they use render farms? I assume there must be some kind of protocol or waiver in these cases.
:)
Richard
When you send your file to a rendefarm, you need to do a package with all your objects (textures and all).
I guess they don't need to own the objects to just "render" the file. It would be impossible for them to buy every licensed obects they have to render, their client already did.
Regarding length, I think 1 minute or less is probably a practical necessity.
For rights and render farms, it really depends on how restrictive the licensing is for the model(s) you're using. I know some render farms have actually made agreements with content producers for their whole library, e.g. "The Ranch" with Cornucopia content. It's unfortunate that it's so complicated.
- Oshyan
One thing that might help, either now or just before the contest gets going, is if NWDA could provide us with an example, as those of us who aren't animators at heart might get a better feel for how this sort of storyboarding works.
Quote from: domdib on April 12, 2010, 01:08:54 AM
One thing that might help, either now or just before the contest gets going, is if NWDA could provide us with an example, as those of us who aren't animators at heart might get a better feel for how this sort of storyboarding works.
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=storyboard&fp=faae8a5043e32937
Quote from: domdib on April 12, 2010, 01:08:54 AM
One thing that might help, either now or just before the contest gets going, is if NWDA could provide us with an example, as those of us who aren't animators at heart might get a better feel for how this sort of storyboarding works.
That's a good idea. I'll make a demo story board (simplistic though) so that everyone gets the idea.
I am thinking of an image that is made of the six distinct renders adjacent to each other, like
x y z
a b c
... so actually, a truly simple thing.
I love the idea (although I'm not going to participate because realism the thing where I'm the best :D)
Quote from: Rhalph on April 13, 2010, 04:37:07 PM
I love the idea (although I'm not going to participate because realism the thing where I'm the best :D)
well, with realism we mean the end result should look as real as possible, but not necessary like a particular part of our world.
For example, if your scene contains a giant moon, that's fine. But if the entire image looks like a cartoon with false colors, then that's out of scope for the competition.
So you can make pretty much any scene, as long as you did your best to make it look as real as TG2 can make it.
Cheers,
Frank
Fantastic idea! This is going to be very inspirational for us all like the last contest.
sounds very interesting indeed!
Certainly a fantastic idea :)
Regarding the realism thing. I wouldn't even be worried too much about that, because the hardest part of the contest is not the realism itself but the condition that it must hold up at different camera heights and angles.
This is a really challenging contest! :D
ok, decided. We'll do the contest.
Watch out for the official announcement and contest rules in the next couple days, coming from TU.
Cheers,
Frank
;D
We need lots of time for this one ;)
- Terje
Quote from: sjefen on April 15, 2010, 09:23:30 AM
We need lots of time for this one ;)
- Terje
Why?
You have to create six relatively small images of one scene you've created. The difficulty lies in having the scene "work" at different angles and positions.
You won't need to render the animation, not even to animate it. :)
Martin
But we still need to work hard on it if we are aiming at realism.
The rendering I'm not worried about.
- Terje
If I find the time I'll definitely participate. It's been a while since my last scene so it is probably a nice way to warm up again. ;D
Quote from: sjefen on April 15, 2010, 03:29:36 PM
But we still need to work hard on it if we are aiming at realism.
The rendering I'm not worried about.
- Terje
Ok, glad you're not confused about what to render and what not :)
Yes, it will be hard work to get it finished in about 2 months.
Last years' contest also ran for that period and many people managed to get very nice results so I expect no problems with that.
Anyhow, it will be hard work, but for nice prizes :)
Also, you can start already of course, since there isn't an official announcement yet, you can gain time by starting right now ;)
Cheers,
Martin
I like this idea, though I suspect one will be severely limited in the possible number of objects/populations depending on available memory. May be best to go for a 'barren world' type of image series in that case... Just thinking out loud.
I think it can be expected that at least the machine that renders the animation for the winner will be able to take advantage of full 4 GB. As each shot in the storyboard is not wider than 640px, the renders will not be so tough on memory as if your render was 1680 or 1920 wide.
So bottom line, I think you will be able to cram a whole lot of objects into the scene. But you are right in that this is not really easy this time, depending on your animation path: if your camera floats a long way close to the ground, you may not be able to cover it all with grasses, for example, so you need to get creative, and make intelligent choices with your scene and storyboard. And going for a more barren landscape is one option, for sure.
Population limit ? do space animation, close up around a single object, fly through clouds... a lot of solutions are available. creativity, guys, creativity !