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General => Terragen Animation => Topic started by: Hannes on June 05, 2016, 10:05:20 AM

Title: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 05, 2016, 10:05:20 AM
Inspired by Ulco being inspired by myself ( ;)) I decided to try another ocean water animation.
Here is a frame for testing the surface. I used Oleg's fantastic rock and sea (or something like that)- sea foam file for the foam patterns. There are three water shaders: a dark one, a brighter blueish one and a greenish one for the more transparent peaks of the waves (could be a bit more transparent?!).
I already did some animation tests and will post something as soon as possible. There is no GI in the scene and not even shadows, but since there are no other objects, it's not too obvious, at least for testing.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 05, 2016, 10:34:28 PM
This will be absolutely outrageous, man! I am looking forward to it!
If you get it, you must teach me too, please (... in 2021 ... for the next movie)  ;D ;D ;D

In fact I was sure that an ocean scene must be possible since I played with the 4D noise in my swimming pool with the duck...

I am looking forward to your ocean!  :) :o 8)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 06, 2016, 06:41:53 AM
Great! Very inspirational  ;D
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 06, 2016, 07:31:57 AM
Here is a first attempt. I'll carry on researching...
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 06, 2016, 08:04:39 AM
This is genius! I am absolutely speechless!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: mhaze on June 06, 2016, 08:42:03 AM
Super work!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on June 06, 2016, 08:57:52 AM

Looks good. Twice the speed maybe?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: dorianvan on June 07, 2016, 12:21:03 AM
I like it a lot. The different shade give it a richer/more real look. Looks like you have too much sea foam, but I am no expert on sea foam density :) You mentioned rocks in your first post here, are you using them somewhere? The water and wave depths look fantastic. I wonder if you could get a floating ball in there.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 07, 2016, 08:36:27 AM
Thanks guys!
Actually I'm not really happy with it. There is definitely too much foam, and the movement of the waves could be better. I did some ocean water animations in 3ds max during the last years, and in TG there is no way (at least that I know of) to implement something like this:

not only vertical displacement, but this kind of horizontal displacement as well.

I'm still testing things and I'm trying to displace a plane in all directions. I hope I can create something in TG that looks at least similar to one of my attempts in Max I did a few years ago (see attached file - did I post this already somewhere?)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 07, 2016, 01:38:59 PM
Another test. The texture is only for testing. Two PFs animated by transform shaders and fed into a redirect shader.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 07, 2016, 04:51:57 PM
It's freakin' fascinating  :o Some weird stuff here and there, but a cool progress. You'll get it fixed, I just know it!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 07, 2016, 05:14:27 PM
Thanks Ulco!! Unfortunately it's an imported plane, which looks weird when "smooth normals" is checked. Unchecking helps, but then it's kind of facetted. :( :( :(
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on June 07, 2016, 10:30:10 PM
Thanks Ulco!! Unfortunately it's an imported plane, which looks weird when "smooth normals" is checked. Unchecking helps, but then it's kind of facetted. :( :( :(

I had a similar sounding problem with an object too.
Couldn't find the problem then. I will have a closer look when i have time. Curious.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: dorianvan on June 08, 2016, 04:26:42 AM
When you get the water right it would be cool to do a ball test or maybe your ship. Nice work so far. Max water looked great; was it only Max or was there a plugin?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 08, 2016, 05:49:05 AM
Why do this on an imported plane, why not an internal one? Or a cube, if you wish.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 12:54:37 PM
...was it only Max or was there a plugin?

There's a free plugin named Houdini Ocean Toolkit , which is based on some theory by Jerry Tessendorf. Don't ask me further about it, I just copied and pasted the name  ;) ;) ;)
Dreamscape by SitniSati is based on the same theory as far as I know.

Why do this on an imported plane, why not an internal one? Or a cube, if you wish.

I wasn't able to do this on the internal plane. I used the mesh deformer input of the imported model, which doesn't seem to exist for the internal one.

I'll try some other (internal) objects. I think, it won't look like the examples I posted, but I hope I can get a little closer.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 01:21:56 PM
OK, I was a little bit too fast, saying, it doesn't work. I created an internal plane, copied the displacement stuff I used as mesh deformer for the imported plane, pasted it into the shader network of the internal one and connected it to the input slot of the default shader. worked. I'll keep you informed...
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 08, 2016, 01:53:53 PM
Another test with the internal plane (the good thing is, it can be resized without destroying the mapping)
Just simple shaders for testing. I used the Intersect underlying (Favour rises) function for the crests and the falloff.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 08, 2016, 02:04:57 PM
I used an internal plane in my attempts, and the whites of the wave base PF for the driving of the foam. But your method also works. Nice playing, huh?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: j meyer on June 08, 2016, 03:58:16 PM
Promising results so far, keep experimenting.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: KlausK on June 09, 2016, 12:34:31 PM
Well done!
Having a go at this since you and Dune started to post your results myself.
But I am far from anything good looking still atm.
Would be interested in a little howto as well.
cheers, Klaus
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 09, 2016, 06:37:55 PM
Another test. The texture is only for testing. Two PFs animated by transform shaders and fed into a redirect shader.

I am trying to use one of 250 EXR frame files as an image map from an animation made in another program for a still image. Seeing your test here is relatively what I already have with 250 images. They are cached bw exr images like a mask.....I have applied one exr as an image map , through projection camera, to a plane and experimenting, alpha is ok. Am I on the right path here? My displacement seems to float above the plane, transparency and translucency enabled.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 13, 2016, 10:04:34 PM
Another one in low res. No water shader, just default ones with an additional reflective shader. The foam pattern is a static image. I tried to use a procedural one (Oleg's file), but this one looked best.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on June 13, 2016, 11:52:45 PM

Looks good.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 14, 2016, 06:07:03 AM
Yes, very natural.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 14, 2016, 06:28:05 AM
Cool, Hannes!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 19, 2016, 12:20:38 PM
An update. Better quality and improved displacement. Still struggling to use clouds as spray from the tops of the waves.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on June 19, 2016, 12:26:12 PM

Looks usable to me Hannes.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 19, 2016, 12:27:55 PM
Wow! That gets bet and better.

Could you perhaps check this: rendering and showing a single frame in 1280x720 with detail at 0.4 e.g.?

I very often made the experience, that the lo-res versions (especially low detail settings) look great and the high resolution image is a catastrophy.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 19, 2016, 12:52:20 PM
Wow! That gets bet and better.

Could you perhaps check this: rendering and showing a single frame in 1280x720 with detail at 0.4 e.g.?

I very often made the experience, that the lo-res versions (especially low detail settings) look great and the high resolution image is a catastrophy.

Thanks Nils!
This animation was rendered at 800X450 px with Detail 0.8 and AA 9. Not too low quality, but of course a higher resolution might reveal some nasty flaws... :(
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 19, 2016, 01:25:14 PM
0.8! Ah, ok... Then I have good hope for you that there will be not too bad surprises at higher resolutions.  :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 19, 2016, 01:35:21 PM
Hopefully, yes. At the moment I'm rendering a Full HD image at 0.8/9. I'll post it as soon as possible.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 19, 2016, 03:12:05 PM
Here it is. Obviously some problems with the specularity. These highlights look nasty!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 19, 2016, 03:21:58 PM
oh yes ... the highlights-problem... I know. But for a view onto a water surface I think that blinking will be ok in the animation - even an advantage.

But in general a great view und great waves.

Last Nitpicking (for today ;)  )
I guess in movement the foam will look even better. As still shot the whitecaps look a bit like massive material. But I couldn't even come close to this great look. Well done!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 19, 2016, 03:36:08 PM
...As still shot the whitecaps look a bit like massive material. But I couldn't even come close to this great look. Well done!

Yes, I noticed that too. I'll have to work on that...
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 19, 2016, 05:44:14 PM
Another try. I used a distance shader to get less whitecaps in the distance (a suggestion by my wife).
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 20, 2016, 06:18:46 AM
Yes, the distant whitecaps could disturb. You can do the same with highlights, btw. There's an issue here with some vdisp/twist to the left; some small black areas. Did you get the cloud foam spatters to work here, or what are they, stones?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 20, 2016, 08:14:44 AM
There's an issue here with some vdisp/twist to the left; some small black areas. Did you get the cloud foam spatters to work here, or what are they, stones?

You spotted it! ;)  Unfortunately it's nothing I could just remove. No clouds, no stones. I guess it's some reflection issue. I'll have to take care of that.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 21, 2016, 08:54:06 AM
A test with some sort of reflecting waves (two horizontally animated PFs with opposite directions)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 21, 2016, 10:17:08 AM
That's nice. It would work well for a river, where stones will redirect the waves and give such disturbance. It would almost look like if you'd raise these waves quite a bit the returning waves may cause the ongoing to break! Probably it won't work that way unless with use of tilting, but the idea is nice.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 22, 2016, 05:25:45 AM
Works already very good in my eyes!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 24, 2016, 04:43:52 AM
One more. At least I could make the foam pattern, which is a static texture, be distorted horizontally. The crests are made by use of the intersect underlying feature with an additional compute terrain node. Still far away from perfect, but I'll keep on researching.
On Monday I'll be in Greece for two weeks. Maybe I can get some inspiration there...
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: dorianvan on June 24, 2016, 05:48:44 AM
Dramatic. Very nice work Hannes! Just needs some ocean sounds and some vomit sounds.  Love the greenish tints and the sitting whitewater. What's amazing is that it keeps looking better. I want to learn how you did this (tutorial?). Question. If you had a large object like a rock jutting out, the water wouldn't react right? Really cool!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 24, 2016, 07:21:10 AM
Great, Hannes. The camera move really makes you sick, though.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on June 24, 2016, 08:25:12 PM
Absolute convincing view Hannes!

I wish you good times and a lot of inspiration in Greece  8)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 25, 2016, 03:32:29 PM
Another test for creating a more convincing displacement animation. No reflective shader yet. Just testing...
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Stormlord on June 25, 2016, 04:18:29 PM
Just Testing...

To make a long story short. it looks absolutely amazing. Excellent animation !

STORMLORD
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on June 26, 2016, 08:15:53 PM
The last try before my vacancies. See you in two weeks...
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on June 26, 2016, 09:16:23 PM

Looks good Hannes.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hetzen on June 27, 2016, 12:01:38 AM
Enjoy your holiday Hannes.

I've been watching this for a while. It's something I played with a few years back and was interested in what you came up with.

I think there are three factors with ocean waves. There's a wind direction, an undulation in that direction and a static movement with the in-between water that undulates.

There was a great documentary about bubbles on BBC4 and they went down to Southampton University, where they had a wave tank. They showed that in waves, the water itself doesn't move, it's the energy that flows through it. So a load of ducks floating on the top just ride the wave and stood laterally still.

I see some back stretching going on in the last animation which probably has more relevance on a shore line as an undercurrent allows the top current to fall over itself.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on June 27, 2016, 06:38:32 AM
Indeed, I've mentioned the non-movement of the water (might be in pm though) despite the waves 'moving'. So foam will remain quite static as well (unless perhaps the wind is so strong it will blow it across the static water). There's a bit of happy accident if you move the waves and let the foam exist only on tops; it will fade out after the wave top has passed, which looks quite natural, I think.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: bobbystahr on July 05, 2016, 02:39:38 AM
Indeed, I've mentioned the non-movement of the water (might be in pm though) despite the waves 'moving'. So foam will remain quite static as well (unless perhaps the wind is so strong it will blow it across the static water). There's a bit of happy accident if you move the waves and let the foam exist only on tops; it will fade out after the wave top has passed, which looks quite natural, I think.
Indeed, killing time I stopped here and caught up and that's what struck me on loop in vlc of the last movie
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 05, 2016, 04:46:39 PM
Guys,  I can't stop looking at the waves here in Greece without thinking how to achieve this in TG.
So much inspiration here!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 05, 2016, 04:55:24 PM
Don't let fall the tablet pc into the water  ;D ;D ;D

Have much fun  8) :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 05, 2016, 06:10:35 PM
Tablet-PC??? Just a tiny little smartphone! I know, if I had a PC with me, I'd use it here! So instead I'm rather drinking beer!  ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 06, 2016, 05:37:47 AM
Imagine sitting with a cold beer on a sun-drenched terrace surrounded by olive trees and watching the gentle waves rolling in, and having a laptop right in front of you with TG installed  ::)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 06, 2016, 07:32:56 AM
If I had a six weeks holiday, that would be indeed cool, but during these two weeks I very much enjoy not to be distracted from the beauty of the real world.  :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 06, 2016, 07:46:26 AM
Enjoy every minute of it, Hannes!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 13, 2016, 08:35:25 PM
A test using a population of a simple boat model (no shadows, no GI and stuff!). It's just one instance (a bit tricky, because like Ulco said, sometimes some more instances are appearing and disappearing. They have to be deleted in edit mode.)
For the crests I used a trick. I rendered an image sequence of the crests from straight up with an additional camera, edited this sequence in AE to get some sort of trails, and used the same camera again in an image map shader to project it back on the surface as a mask.
Still not happy with it, but I'll keep on fighting!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 14, 2016, 06:42:48 AM
Respect for your fight!

Looking forward to see the final vessel cruising there.
I lazy old guy would animate a motor boat...  horrible thoughts about animating in the wind fluttering sails and rigging  ;D  ;)

But no doubt! You'll do it  :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 14, 2016, 08:14:30 AM
Thanks, Nils!!
Here's another quick and dirty one with shadows, environment light and GI (plus flicker!!! >:()
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 14, 2016, 08:39:56 AM
Do you have two sets of waves on a 90 angle? On the left side that's quite remarkable. If so, I'd reduce that angle.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 14, 2016, 09:08:43 AM
Do you have two sets of waves on a 90 angle? On the left side that's quite remarkable. If so, I'd reduce that angle.

Indeed. In some reference videos it just looked like this, but maybe it looks better with a lower angle. I'll try that. Thanks for your suggestion, Ulco.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: dorianvan on July 18, 2016, 02:25:01 AM
Looking great!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 18, 2016, 08:25:56 AM
Thanks!!!
Next iteration. Still lots of things to do... (cloud layer as the boatwake's spray for example...)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 18, 2016, 08:38:10 AM
Thats just WOW! Great great great, Hannes!

I see some little things but I am too respectfully silent at the moment to nitpick. I'll just will wait for the coming anims :-)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 18, 2016, 08:46:42 AM
Thats just WOW! Great great great, Hannes!

I see some little things but I am too respectfully silent at the moment to nitpick. I'll just will wait for the coming anims :-)

Thanks, Nils!!! Feel free to nitpick. I know there's a lot of things that have to be improved. At the moment I broke up the crests a bit, since they are looking kind of solid. I added an additional displacement for the wake, and the animation of the sails (yes they are animated - barely visible, I know) could be better.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 18, 2016, 09:00:03 AM
I have seen that with the sails and I knew, that you are doing hard work on it. And because I am working on a tgd of a kind mentor to get a coast with waves, I know how hard it is. So nitpicking is no fun (and with my 0.00 zero bluenodes-knowledge even not helpful) ...  ;)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 18, 2016, 09:30:53 AM
To me as well these blue nodes are still a mystery... :(
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 18, 2016, 10:32:00 AM
Super, Hannes! Yes, there are some tiny things, but you're really getting there. Is this single ship, not a pop?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 18, 2016, 09:48:41 PM
Super, Hannes! Yes, there are some tiny things, but you're really getting there. Is this single ship, not a pop?

Thanks, Ulco! Yes, I started with a pop, but the motion was too rough, so I used a single object. Well spotted!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 19, 2016, 06:07:27 AM
Well, it doesn't move (or does it, just a little?)  ;) I requested objects to be able to have some sort of 'sit on' and 'refresh every frame' option; would be very handy for these things.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 19, 2016, 07:57:03 AM
The actual one is a single object (with a subtle little handanimation).
In my previous tests I used pops and a compute terrain with an appropriate gradient patch size. It works somehow, but most of the time it doesn't really look like a ship moving through water imho.
So if the animation isn't too long it's not too complicated to create a little motion per hand.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 19, 2016, 07:58:57 AM
So if the animation isn't too long it's not too complicated to create a little motion per hand.

absolutely dito  ;)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 19, 2016, 01:12:06 PM
The actual one is a single object (with a subtle little handanimation).
In my previous tests I used pops and a compute terrain with an appropriate gradient patch size. It works somehow, but most of the time it doesn't really look like a ship moving through water imho.
So if the animation isn't too long it's not too complicated to create a little motion per hand.

Have you tried  a second invisible much smoother ground for the crowd sim Hannes?
You could offset it even for a different look.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 19, 2016, 01:48:47 PM
Yes, to get some sort of delay even, when a ship hits a wave.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 20, 2016, 08:27:27 AM
Great ideas, guys. Thanks!
In this case the movement of the ship looks quite OK to me, so I'll try to focus on other things.

Here is the latest version. I reduced the blue water area (it looked a bit unnatural to me), which reduced rendertimes as well  :) :) :)
For the frontal part of the wake I added a masked white fake stones shader. Using a cloud layer didn't really look good. I couldn't get a terrain conforming cloud, so I thought about trying other possibilities. Maybe the fake stones should be a bit more prominent... I'll keep on testing!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Matt on July 20, 2016, 08:37:38 AM
I continue to be in awe.

Matt
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 20, 2016, 09:03:18 AM
Getting better and better!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 20, 2016, 09:12:25 AM
Gets more and more movie-like!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 20, 2016, 09:20:57 AM
Thanks a lot, guys!! You make me feel good! :) :) :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 20, 2016, 09:44:09 AM
Here is a quick, dirty and short bow wave test (no water shader and no GISD for testing purposes). I used an additional larger fake stones shader with less density and a higher tallness.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 20, 2016, 09:52:28 AM
That looks pretty good (understatement). For high detailed bowwaves you could make a vdisp mask, but that won't be necessary here, I presume. And I wonder how that could be animated  :-\
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 20, 2016, 10:15:16 AM
That looks pretty good (understatement). For high detailed bowwaves you could make a vdisp mask, but that won't be necessary here, I presume. And I wonder how that could be animated  :-\

Me too... :o
A particle system would be nice. Don't you think, Matt?  ;D ;) ;) ;) ;)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 22, 2016, 08:56:33 AM
I managed to create a terrain conforming cloud layer as spray, masked with the same image sequence I used for the persistance of the foam, plus an animated PF. The radius of the localised cloud is way too small, but it's only for testing.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 22, 2016, 09:36:48 AM
Hard to see what it really does.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 22, 2016, 09:40:45 AM
Hard to see what it really does.

Yes, the quality is quite low. It's meant as spray blown off the crests by the wind.

Kind of...

I'm still experimenting, but I'm glad I could make at least the cloud layer follow the animated "terrain".
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 22, 2016, 10:53:57 AM
You should be, I still find it hard to get cloud to follow terrain, never know if I need a compute terrain, and how high the multiplying factor should be.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hetzen on July 22, 2016, 12:45:46 PM
Well done Hannes. That looks interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing a higher rez still of this.

What's your plan with the cloud layer?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 22, 2016, 03:47:10 PM
Well done Hannes. That looks interesting. I wouldn't mind seeing a higher rez still of this.

What's your plan with the cloud layer?

Thanks Jon,
as I wrote, it's meant as spray blown off the crests by the wind. I'll see, if I can make it look more natural.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 24, 2016, 08:16:14 AM
A short updated version. I reworked the sails animation (there's a strange upwards movement now, I'll have to take care of).
And I worked on the animated PF for the cloud layer that represents the spray. I know it's a bit over the top, but at least you can see, what I have in mind.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 24, 2016, 09:05:49 AM

Nice. Curious how the final will be. I am always worried about the difference with low and high quality.
Besides the points you mentioned it looks very encouraging. How are the render times?
I hope you can make the final in HD?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 24, 2016, 09:19:52 AM

Nice. Curious how the final will be. I am always worried about the difference with low and high quality.
Besides the points you mentioned it looks very encouraging. How are the render times?
I hope you can make the final in HD?

Thanks Kadri,

at this resolution (800 X 450px), Detail/AA 0.4/4, GI 2/2, GISD on, soft shadows on, it takes 4-6 minutes per frame, which is not too bad, but I'm afraid rendertimes will explode, when I increase the settings.
I'll see.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 24, 2016, 09:25:34 AM

Hope we can see it soon :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 24, 2016, 01:53:17 PM
To be honest, I wouldn't bother with the spray cloud. And regarding the upward movement; how did you animate the sails? By translating a PF? Perhaps a horizontal vector displace kind of warp will work better?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 24, 2016, 09:16:25 PM
Great work Hannes!

I think the same as Ulco about the spray clouds. For me it's an absolutely convincing view!
The sails animation looks good ok far - I am curious how it looks in higher resolution.

Now it's time for the HD version?! Some more seconds length?
I wish you so much good luck for finalizing...  :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 12:36:13 PM
To be honest, I wouldn't bother with the spray cloud. And regarding the upward movement; how did you animate the sails? By translating a PF? Perhaps a horizontal vector displace kind of warp will work better?

I was so happy to get that working, I NEED to refine this. I'll make it a lot more subtle. Doing some tests atm.
Yes, the sails are animated by translating PFs. I know this works, I did that before, but the settings weren't good. Unfortunately there's no way (yet!!!!!!  ;)) to easily preview deformed meshes in animation.

Nils, Thanks for your kind words!
I'm not sure if there will be some more seconds. I'm a little bit afraid, that rendertime per frame will be hours instead of minutes in HD.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 25, 2016, 01:13:34 PM
Yes, I can imagine that. But I hope render time will weigh up against visibility and impact of your hardwon feature  ;)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 01:40:04 PM
Yes, I can imagine that. But I hope render time will weigh up against visibility and impact of your hardwon feature  ;)

Hopefully, yes!  ;) ;)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 01:58:55 PM
Here is a still image in higher resolution and with better quality settings (especially for you, Jon! ;)).
It took 1 hour and 20 minutes to render.

I hope my beloved spray cloud is subtle enough!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 25, 2016, 02:11:46 PM
It is, and it's a great image. Are you using transparency? Using part of my setup with some underlying sea colors and a reflective shader and translucency and such, might have a positive effect on render time.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 25, 2016, 03:02:35 PM

Looks good Hannes.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 03:16:26 PM
Are you using transparency? Using part of my setup with some underlying sea colors and a reflective shader and translucency and such, might have a positive effect on render time.

Thanks Ulco,

not really. When I started this project I used simple surface layers with reflective shaders and some smaller displacement additionally to the major waves for the water.
But I found out that a water shader with subsurface transparency set to 0 doesn't take much longer to render. For the brighter (blueish) areas I used a water shader with some subsurface. These are very small areas, so it's OK.
I think the spray cloud has the most influence on rendertimes. Especially when it's conformed to the "terrain". (...but I want it so badly!!!!!! ;) ;) ;))

I just rendered a GI cache file for this scene and am now starting to render the animation in HD (1280 X 720px). It's a bit smaller than the previously posted image, and I reduced the quality settings from 0.6/6 to 0.5/6. The first frame took about 30 minutes, which is quite acceptable I think.

It's going to take some time now...

And thanks, Kadri!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: j meyer on July 25, 2016, 03:26:17 PM
Keep on pushing the limits man. 8)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 03:46:27 PM
Sure!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 25, 2016, 04:02:08 PM

 "HD (1280 X 720px)" No cheating please. That is Half HD.

Ok...OK... that is good too Hannes, with those render times :)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 05:31:03 PM

 "HD (1280 X 720px)" No cheating please. That is Half HD.

Ok...OK... that is good too Hannes, with those render times :)

No, Kadri, this IS HD. 1920 X 1080px is Full HD. (I'm a smart ass, right?  ;) ;) ;))
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 25, 2016, 06:32:18 PM

 ;D

https://wordbreath.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/mfln1740l.png
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 25, 2016, 07:32:31 PM
Great discussion  ;D ;D

Fill the glass up , Hannes... just upscale (either with a very good video editor) or with a graphics program. (I usually use XNView - quality ok and nice batch functions)

As I have understood some wiki's, Lanczos resampling seems to be the best.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 25, 2016, 07:57:39 PM
Thanks Nils and sorry, Kadri!!  ;D ;D ;D
I don't care about upscaling at the moment. I just hope that I didn't forget to activate or deactivate something accidentally after 100hrs rendertime!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 25, 2016, 10:45:07 PM

I thought a little about this Hannes. Not sure if this would work for your animation but for HD (full :D )
You could render the water for example in half HD and the ship in HD in separate layers?

And-or maybe rendering only half the frames (even frames only) the water part and the ship full frames etc.
With motion blur it could work maybe. Depending of the camera move-speed.

From one of my old animations i rendered the background  half HD and only the foreground in HD.
It had kind of the full quality HD feeling.

But it looks like you are already rendering.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 26, 2016, 06:33:27 AM
That is a smart way, Kadri, I have to remember that.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: ajcgi on July 26, 2016, 10:45:54 AM
All TG animation I've ever rendered is 1280x720 upscaled in Nuke to 1920x1080.
A lot of genuine HD footage looks softer than nice sharp HD renders, so it's kinda easy to get away with. Only a few have ever whinged about it. The jump from 720 to 1080 is pretty much double the amount of pixels, but in TG that could be a much higher than double render time.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 26, 2016, 12:54:25 PM

I thought a little about this Hannes. Not sure if this would work for your animation but for HD (full :D )
You could render the water for example in half HD and the ship in HD in separate layers?

And-or maybe rendering only half the frames (even frames only) the water part and the ship full frames etc.
With motion blur it could work maybe. Depending of the camera move-speed.

From one of my old animations i rendered the background  half HD and only the foreground in HD.
It had kind of the full quality HD feeling.


But it looks like you are already rendering.

Cool ideas. I don't know if rendering the ship separately would work, since there is the reflection of it on the water.
The only thing i could imagine would be rendering the spray cloud separately, but as you wrote, I am already rendering, but thanks for your suggestions!

@ajcgi - thanks, I'll keep that in mind!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 26, 2016, 06:07:05 PM
All TG animation I've ever rendered is 1280x720 upscaled in Nuke to 1920x1080.
A lot of genuine HD footage looks softer than nice sharp HD renders, so it's kinda easy to get away with. Only a few have ever whinged about it. The jump from 720 to 1080 is pretty much double the amount of pixels, but in TG that could be a much higher than double render time.

Yes it depends on how aware and caring the watcher is about the difference and the medium he-she watches.
With small TV's it is hard to see the difference for example.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 26, 2016, 06:19:05 PM
...
 I don't know if rendering the ship separately would work, since there is the reflection of it on the water.
...

It should work i think.
There is a checkbox for "Cast shadows and other rays" for the objects in the "Render Layer" node even if you hide the object.
But i haven't tried it Hannes.

If the render times are reasonable i don't bother with these settings.
But when you have insane render times you begin to search for faster ways of course.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 26, 2016, 08:09:30 PM
If the render times are reasonable i don't bother with these settings.
But when you have insane render times you begin to search for faster ways of course.

That's the point. At the moment I don't think, rendering parts separately would be faster. Of course you'd have more control in the end, but as far as I can see (after 54 frames now) it looks good so far.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 26, 2016, 09:48:00 PM

How much frames will be in total Hannes?
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 27, 2016, 03:44:13 AM
179 frames. I started with 200 frames, but I had to cut off twenty frames at the start and the last one, because of the image sequence I'm using for the persistance of the foam.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on July 27, 2016, 04:52:26 AM

7 seconds. Nice.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on July 27, 2016, 06:04:33 AM
Hurry, Hannes. I can't wait. 
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on July 27, 2016, 06:43:43 AM
Good luck Hannes - I know how it is to have to wait...  ;)
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on July 27, 2016, 12:21:28 PM
79th frame atm!
Title: Re: Ocean HD
Post by: Hannes on August 02, 2016, 09:35:58 AM
Finally it's done.
Here is the link to the HD version (1280 X 720px). It's an 18 MB file. More compression looked crappy:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dnoc957o9m828u0/Ocean%2098HD.mp4?dl=0

I tried to upscale it, but it didn't look good, so the only thing would be to render it in Full HD (at least) with very high quality settings, but that would take ages I assume.

Hope you like it.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Kadri on August 02, 2016, 09:55:58 AM

Nice animation Hannes :)
The small cloudy parts over the waves are a little noisy but other then this it looks great even in half HD.
The most i like are the moving sails.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: DocCharly65 on August 02, 2016, 10:08:31 AM
Great Hannes!

I'd say it's a kind of milestone in the TG usage. I don't remember to have seen anything like this rendered with TG in this quality and authenticity! Congratulations!  :)

(some details are only interesting to be improved if someone looks these seconds in persistent repetition  ;)  )

Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Dune on August 02, 2016, 12:05:41 PM
Top work, Hannes. I love it. A bit fast, but I slowed it down and it looked really good. I still think the vapour wasn't really necessary, but I appreciate your perseverance in this.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: ajcgi on August 02, 2016, 03:58:12 PM
Ah yeah, that was worth the wait!
Great movement all round, not to mention the technical side.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: luvsmuzik on August 11, 2016, 10:19:34 PM
Super! Very realistic movement and great camera tracking! Fascinating!
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: bobbystahr on October 15, 2016, 03:27:30 PM
Dunno how I missed this hannes...musta been musicing too much in August...awesome work and really well done on the wake. I know this is a niggle but I would have liked to have seen as bit of motion in the sales but that is likely a whole other story as this is titled ocean not sails....
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on October 15, 2016, 06:45:51 PM
Thanks Bobby! Well, there is some motion in the sails. It's quite subtle, but it's there.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: bobbystahr on October 15, 2016, 09:11:52 PM
Thanks Bobby! Well, there is some motion in the sails. It's quite subtle, but it's there.

I sit corrected...will watch it again on loop.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: TheBadger on October 19, 2016, 10:23:06 AM
Hey hannes,
Will you upload all your finals to your Vimeo or YouTube, I can't down load anything right now. But I want to see how everything you make turns out.

Cheers
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: Hannes on October 19, 2016, 02:50:53 PM
I just gathered all my TG animations ito one folder, so I guess, that would be a good idea. I'll see.
Title: Re: Ocean
Post by: TheBadger on October 21, 2016, 02:35:14 AM
Cool.