Evening Silence

Started by sjefen, July 16, 2009, 01:24:54 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

sjefen

Ok... so now all I got to do is figure out the size of the cropings and render on at the time?
I also have GI in the scene set at 2, 2, 4. Will this be a problem?

- Terje
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
32,0 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

domdib

In answer to PG, reading the second page of that thread muddies the water again as to whether it should be detail in camera or in crop. I'm confused myself now. PS, please help!!!

Renegade26

Brilliant picture!!  I love it

PG

Quote from: domdib on July 17, 2009, 11:42:35 am
In answer to PG, reading the second page of that thread muddies the water again as to whether it should be detail in camera or in crop. I'm confused myself now. PS, please help!!!


I'm assuming you mean TU's post. As with everything in Terragen, it depends on the scene. The ray detail options are, if I understand Matt correctly, simply two workaround methods for the GI problems, so one will be more successful than the other in certain situations. I've always used detail in camera because it's given me the best results in the scenes I've created. Detail in crop gives you more detailed ray tracing within the region of the crop and the padding zone, absolute if you like. Whereas detail in camera gives you full detail, calculated as it would be for the full render, view-dependant if you will. That's not to say that it actually calculates the ray intersections for the entire render. It just calculates the cropped region in exactly the same way as if it were going to.

Of course this is just how I've understood it, we would need Matt, Jo or Osh to verify or completely trounce any of this :D
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

Walli

lovely scene! I like the sense of depth and scale.

christianfly

July 17, 2009, 02:51:50 pm #20 Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 08:08:57 am by christianfly
Beautifu pano! Not sure about cirrus "white spots", but I like this pano.

sjefen

Thanks guys.
The white spots are stars, but it's not easy to see in this small image. I'm working on a bigger one, but I need some help on how to set up the croping correct ::)

- Terje
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
32,0 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Matt

July 17, 2009, 08:02:33 pm #22 Last Edit: July 17, 2009, 08:05:46 pm by Matt
"Ray detail region" and "Ray detail region padding" have nothing to do with GI. (Well, that's not entirely true, but doesn't affect GI the way you think it does.) These settings are mostly for ray traced shadows and ray traced reflections.

For crops that need to be stitched together, just set the region to "Detail in Camera", which will make each crop use the same detail region as the whole image (i.e. what the camera sees). If you do this, you don't need to adjust the ray detail region padding. If you used a padding of 0 for your original render, you should use 0 on your crops too. If you needed to use "Detail in Crop" for some reason, e.g. if you were rendering a very, very big image where the "in camera" setting is not possible, then you might want to try some padding of the crop region. Otherwise you should be OK with 0 (or whatever you had for your original image).

Lastly, ray detail region padding is not in pixels, it is a multiplier of whatever the current region is (on each side, in addition to the non-padded region).

Some more info from the changes log:

"Two new render settings on the Advanced tab which control the region in which ray traced polygons are fully subdivided. Outside of this region the ray traced polygons are only coarsely subdivided. Previously this region was the frustum seen by the rendered image or crop region, but now you can also choose to have no detail or to have detail everywhere within the camera frustum regardless of crop settings. "Ray detail region padding" can be used to enlarge (or shrink) the region. A value of 0 means no padding. A value of 1 adds a border to each side of the frustum which is equivalent to the width or height of the image or crop region, which makes the frustum 3 times as wide and 3 times as tall."

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Matt

To reduce GI mismatches you can render with a higher GI sample quality. A small overlap of your crops (50-100 pixels) will enable you to correct any remaining problems if necessary.

I would test a few parts of the image to make sure before you render all of the final pieces.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Tangled-Universe

Ghehe well, it seems I've was mostly wrong about the RDR feature ;D
Pity though that after months the "truth" came out...
Anyhow, I still find the following piece of explanation difficult to grasp:

Quote from: Matt on July 17, 2009, 08:02:33 pm
...

If you needed to use "Detail in Crop" for some reason, e.g. if you were rendering a very, very big image where the "in camera" setting is not possible, then you might want to try some padding of the crop region. Otherwise you should be OK with 0 (or whatever you had for your original image).

...

Matt



Ok, so we need detail in camera with region padding at 0 when rendering a large image in crops.
Only change the padding to something else if the uncropped image used it as well. Clear.

But what about the in crop?
I find these 3 lines so confusing, why might that setting not be possible?
When rendering very very big images I start rendering crops and then I'd have to use detail in camera, but now you say I might perhaps use the detail in crop setting.

When is what necessary?

Cheers,
Martin

PG

I think it's as I said before, detail in camera uses the ray tracing calculations in exactly the same way as if you were doing the full image. If you're doing a humungous billboard advertisment, for example, then those calculations will be so vast that it will still be too slow for economical use. Detail in crop only utilises ray tracing as presented in that area, everything else is occluded. You need padding in Detail in crop so that you get a little overspill into the next cropped area, so the ray traced effects are smooth. Detail in Camera uses the same level of calculations for the entire render so every crop will have the same detail of ray traced effects.

This is annoyingly tricky to grasp though.
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: PG on July 18, 2009, 07:27:14 am
I think it's as I said before, detail in camera uses the ray tracing calculations in exactly the same way as if you were doing the full image. If you're doing a humungous billboard advertisment, for example, then those calculations will be so vast that it will still be too slow for economical use. Detail in crop only utilises ray tracing as presented in that area, everything else is occluded. You need padding in Detail in crop so that you get a little overspill into the next cropped area, so the ray traced effects are smooth. Detail in Camera uses the same level of calculations for the entire render so every crop will have the same detail of ray traced effects.

This is annoyingly tricky to grasp though.


Thanks PG, the way you explain this makes much more sense to me. Sounds logical too.

Sometimes I wonder why the release notes are not a bit more detailled.
Five more minutes of work on a bit more explanation would save a lot of debate and misunderstanding, perhaps.

sjefen

Quote from: Matt on July 17, 2009, 08:15:02 pm
To reduce GI mismatches you can render with a higher GI sample quality. A small overlap of your crops (50-100 pixels) will enable you to correct any remaining problems if necessary.

I would test a few parts of the image to make sure before you render all of the final pieces.

Matt



So if I want to use 4 crops for the image it wouldn't be a good idea to just split everything in half? I need to render just a little bit extra pixels in every crops?

- Terje
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
32,0 GB RAM
GeForce GTX 1060 6GB

Matt

Quote from: PG on July 18, 2009, 07:27:14 am
I think it's as I said before, detail in camera uses the ray tracing calculations in exactly the same way as if you were doing the full image. If you're doing a humungous billboard advertisment, for example, then those calculations will be so vast that it will still be too slow for economical use. Detail in crop only utilises ray tracing as presented in that area, everything else is occluded. You need padding in Detail in crop so that you get a little overspill into the next cropped area, so the ray traced effects are smooth. Detail in Camera uses the same level of calculations for the entire render so every crop will have the same detail of ray traced effects.


Exactly correct.

Quote
This is annoyingly tricky to grasp though.


I'd like to make it easier to understand, and I'm open to any suggestions on how to do that.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Matt

Quote from: sjefen on July 18, 2009, 09:47:08 am
So if I want to use 4 crops for the image it wouldn't be a good idea to just split everything in half? I need to render just a little bit extra pixels in every crops?


Unfortunately yes. There's no way to guarantee that there won't be slight differences in the GI, so some overlap is a useful security measure.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.