News FLASH

Started by rcallicotte, November 16, 2010, 11:51:38 AM

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old_blaggard

Good for them. I haven't been put through one of those yet, but I see this as a huge and fundamentally useless privacy violation.
http://www.terragen.org - A great Terragen resource with models, contests, galleries, and forums.

Jack

eh i think its a good idea
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

otakar

There are unresolved radiation issues with the backscatter machines and there are issues with minors / attractive women being singled out for TSA scans (documented cases). The other problem is that there's no guarantee the scans will not be saved or passed on. I hope the mounting wave of resistance will effect a change, but we shall see. If you do not have to travel to/within the U.S. be glad, things just got uglier and some airports are much worse than others.

Walli

Quote from: old_blaggard on November 16, 2010, 04:00:30 PM
Good for them. I haven't been put through one of those yet, but I see this as a huge and fundamentally useless privacy violation.

privacy violation? I think its more privacy violation if custom officers touch you to search for harmful things. And by the way - this is what you see on the display of those scanners, they are using neutral pictograms and not nude photos:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Koerperscanner-fund.jpg
Instead people should do something against the real data krakens, but there the very same people give away their private data just because they hope to collect some points and get a cheap toaster as reward.

Jack

eh if someone wants to check my junk so be it i would rather have them check it then a crazy Muslim blowing the plain up midflight because 'peoples rights' maybe offended
My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

otakar

Quote from: wetbanana on November 16, 2010, 06:10:50 PM
eh if someone wants to check my junk so be it i would rather have them check it then a crazy Muslim blowing the plain up midflight because 'peoples rights' maybe offended

Ok, you made me do it. Please read: http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/11/10/airport_security

Walli

Of course terrorism has been there long before, that´s not the point. The same is true for security checks.
The problem is this - people cry out for almost ludicrous "threats" to their privacy, but when it comes to really important points, they don´t care. Almost no one complains about phones and mails beeing scanned for example.

As I said, you have been scanned for decades already, your luggage went through xrays, you went through metal detectors and the hands of custom officers. Don´t you think that the same cases will happen (I mean the documented ones, where custom officers prefer to scan female or minorities) if the scans are made by hand?

The point is this, this scanner does not reveal anything, it reveals probably less compared to a "manual" scan (talking about privacy here).
I am also not sure if I want those scanners, but for a different reason - I fear that they spend a lot of money for those machines and in the end they won´t deliver better results compared to old fashioned scans.

I agree with you, they are exaggerating the real dangers to be able to enforce certain ideas. Again this is a very old technique and it´s a technique that is working very reliable. Unfortunately.

Some years ago I read a nice book about panic and angst. Two statisticians talk about typical panic-topics and how ridicoulus this is - but also why it is this way. It´s really a nice read, not sure if its available in english. It´s not directly related to terrorism, but it helps to understand why people behave as they behave.

Jack

#8
Quote from: otakar on November 16, 2010, 07:35:06 PM
Quote from: wetbanana on November 16, 2010, 06:10:50 PM
eh if someone wants to check my junk so be it i would rather have them check it then a crazy Muslim blowing the plain up midflight because 'peoples rights' maybe offended

Ok, you made me do it. Please read: http://www.salon.com/technology/ask_the_pilot/2010/11/10/airport_security

lol like i didnt know that.
as highlighted from that txt you sent me does anyone know a connection?
mhhh :-\
if its anything to eradicate the threat of islam then i totally support it

Here's a scenario:

Middle Eastern terrorists hijack a U.S. jetliner bound for Italy. A two-week drama ensues in which the plane's occupants are split into groups and held hostage in secret locations in Lebanon and Syria.

While this drama is unfolding, another group of terrorists detonates a bomb in the luggage hold of a 747 over the North Atlantic, killing more than 300 people.

Not long afterward, terrorists kill 19 people and wound more than a hundred others in coordinated attacks at European airport ticket counters.

A few months later, a U.S. airliner is bombed over Greece, killing four passengers.

Five months after that, another U.S. airliner is stormed by heavily armed terrorists at the airport in Karachi, Pakistan, killing at least 20 people and wounding 150 more.

Things are quiet for a while, until two years later when a 747 bound for New York is blown up over Europe killing 270 passengers and crew.

Nine months from then, a French airliner en route to Paris is bombed over Africa, killing 170 people from 17 countries.

That's a pretty macabre fantasy, no? A worst-case war-game scenario for the CIA? A script for the End Times? Except, of course, that everything above actually happened, in a four-year span between 1985 and 1989. The culprits were the al-Qaidas of their time: groups like the Abu Nidal Organization and the Arab Revolutionary Cells, and even the government of Libya.

First on that list was the spectacular saga of TWA Flight 847, a Boeing 727 commandeered by Shiite militiamen in June of '85. Even before that crisis ended, Sikh extremists would blow up Air India Flight 182 off the coast of Ireland -- the deadliest civil aviation bombing in history. The Abu Nidal group then murdered 20 people at the airports in Rome and Vienna, followed in short order by the bombing of TWA Flight 840 as it descended toward Athens. Abu Nidal struck again in Karachi, attacking a Pan Am 747 with machine guns and grenades. Then, in December 1988, Libyan operatives planted the luggage bomb that brought down Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, in what would stand until 2001 as the worst-ever terror attack against a U.S. target. The Libyans later used another luggage bomb to take out UTA Flight 772 over Niger in September 1989.

My terragen gallery:
http://wetbanana.deviantart.com/

Henry Blewer

It's all false security. You can feel up someone all you want; something implanted in the body will not be found that way.

They will have better and safer imaging scanners soon. Some are being developed in the area where I live. A scan is the only way you can be sure.
http://flickr.com/photos/njeneb/
Forget Tuesday; It's just Monday spelled with a T

rcallicotte

What if you have a daughter who gets "checked"?  Then what?  I don't think that's anywhere near appropriate.


Quote from: wetbanana on November 16, 2010, 06:10:50 PM
eh if someone wants to check my junk so be it i would rather have them check it then a crazy Muslim blowing the plain up midflight because 'peoples rights' maybe offended
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

rcallicotte

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=39961

It's worth noting that Israel provides phenomenal security at Ben Gurion Airport without using body scanners or intrusive pat-downs.  In an April 2010 interview with David Parker Brown of Airline Reporter,  global security consultant Rafi Sela said, "It is mindboggling for us Israelis to look at what happens in North America, because we went through this 50 years ago...  When the security agency in Israel started to tighten security, and we had to wait in line – not for hours – but 30 or 40 minutes, all hell broke loose here.  We said, 'We're not going to do this.  You're going to find a way that will take care of security without touching the efficiency of the airport."


http://www.thestar.com/news/world/article/744199---israelification-high-security-little-bother
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Walli

but there´s a problem - for some reason, especially when it comes to projects under government supervision, they prefer to fork out a fortune for machines and try to reduce expenses for good trained personel.
At least here in germany the security staff is usually not very well paid. I am not sure if this is the right way to attract good personel.

old_blaggard

Quote from: Walli on November 16, 2010, 06:09:53 PM
Quote from: old_blaggard on November 16, 2010, 04:00:30 PM
Good for them. I haven't been put through one of those yet, but I see this as a huge and fundamentally useless privacy violation.

privacy violation? I think its more privacy violation if custom officers touch you to search for harmful things. And by the way - this is what you see on the display of those scanners, they are using neutral pictograms and not nude photos:
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Koerperscanner-fund.jpg
Instead people should do something against the real data krakens, but there the very same people give away their private data just because they hope to collect some points and get a cheap toaster as reward.


Maybe that's what they look like in Germany, but here, they look like this: http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/11/junk-security-naked-scanners-wont-keep-us-safe/

I agree that someone feeling you up is also inappropriate. It turns out that if you are selected for specialized screening, you have the following choices:
- Be viewed naked by an anonymous TSA official
- Have a TSA official touch you in ways that would normally be considered sexual molestation
- Face a $11,000 fine for deciding to leave the airport (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/11/tsa-investigating-passenger)

Finally, it's important to note that the actual security here is irrelevant. Numerous experts have stated that these body scanners do nothing at all to enhance safety, while posing potentially hazardous radiation risks. Furthermore, the head of the TSA under the Bush administration, who planned and began the implementation of this process, has direct business ties to the primary company manufacturing and selling these devices.
http://www.terragen.org - A great Terragen resource with models, contests, galleries, and forums.

otakar

#14
Right on, OB! Someone's making a killing on useless and dangerous technology. Rapidscan is the Chertoff-associated outfit. (Press Release).

How they justify these 'new procedures and restrictions' is also astounding. Oh, the bomb was in an ink cartridge? Ban all ink cartridges! Pretty soon the only carry-on is going to be your clothes and full on body cavity searches will be the norm.

http://tinyurl.com/2dtmss3

Look at the first image. Disgusting.