Render Farm service and cloud computing for terragen ?

Started by ndeewolfwood, May 26, 2011, 07:37:45 AM

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ndeewolfwood

renderfarm.ca looks down for a while now.
http://forums.planetside.co.uk/index.php?topic=6058.0
Any news about a cloud rendering service who are terragen friendly ?

Somebody on the forum ever try something in this way as a customer ?


Tangled-Universe

The only 2 I know are GaragaFarm and EmecStudios...

When I ever get my personal site finished I'd like to render multiple animations for a showreel and at that stage I'm personally interested in being a customer.


neon22

In addition to the existing commercial renderfarms - I'm extending and rewriting my TG2 batch program to allow distributed rendering over the net for any licensed TG2 user who chooses to join the "Community farm".
You will be able to:
- verify that its not possible to hijack and run a virus on your machine - uses tgd files only.
- submit jobs that are tiled single images, crops, animated sequences, or panoramas (everything TG2 Batch does).
- batched variations of params in the TGD files
- choose when to offer rendering services
- share your cpu with the community
(compositing or assembly will occur on the submitter's machine).

There will be a server that you submit jobs to, then parcels out the individual render tasks to remote hosts.  Resulting frames will accumulate in dedicated ftp directories for download by the job submitter....At least that's the probable mechanism right now...

I am aiming for Jun 30 as a release date as I just lost a big job and have time on my hands right now... :-(
In Python and QT UI. Needs to run TG2 command line so you must be a licensed TG2 user to offer rendering help...
but anyone can submit a job...

more news soon....

Seth


cyphyr

This is the program I was talking about last week Seth. Could be very useful for smaller farms and the web rendering sounds prommising.
Richard
www.richardfraservfx.com
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
/|\

Ryzen 9 5950X OC@4Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 4:13)

Seth


ndeewolfwood

#7
sounds good neon22...
When i wrote the first message, i was thinking to the apophysis community rendering system and i forgot to talk about.
http://community.electricsheep.org/node/325

This kind of system looks very good to me but i don't know how much power we can get of this. Hard to know how many users will share computing time, i feel like a bad ratio Client/renderer every days. But i could be wrong.

An other way to proceed will be to create an association...

with a year subscription, the people who subscribe get acces to a private render farm manage by the association (rent by the association ).

I really need to create a excel sheet just to know how much we need for this.

Just to know,how much you will pay for an non commercial rendering association year subscription ?

Tangled-Universe

That, of course, totally depends on what you get for it.

ndeewolfwood

i send a mail to a render farm i've already contact and work with.
I asked them the price for 5 computer*4core*3ghz 1 year 24/24 with multi-users system.
Not the best computer in the world...
It can give a price idea...I will forward what they reply to me.

ndeewolfwood

so in fact the website was non updated since a long time and they have super death computer now.

So

5 computer
24 core

700 euros *5 computer =3500 euros*12 month= 42 000 euros

42 000 euros !!!!
60 419,136 dollars !!!!!

mmm ::)

if 10 user : 4200 euros for one year !!!!!!!
if 50 user : 840 euros
if 100 user : 42 euros

mmm

100 user who pay 42 euros for 5 computer....no i don't think so.
50 user 840 euros : no i don't think so.
10 user yeah looks great...but we don't think so.

So next step : find the same thing cheaper,and cheaper, and cheaper  ;D

fact 1 : if you want to render terragen animation it can cost money at full HD  ;D
fact 2 : if you want to render terragen animation at home alone it can cost you your lifetime.
fact 3 : The community farm idea rocks
fact 4 : i need to find something cheaper in india.









Tangled-Universe

I would be totally fine with paying 42 euros/year. Even 100 euro's/year.
The difficult thing with this is, is how is it shared?

If you share it with 100 users, for E42,-/year, that would mean 3,65 days/user/year.
In this case the money wouldn't be a no go for me, but the availability.

Or am I too pragmatic here?

ndeewolfwood

no you're right.
It's too expensive and have any chance to go with 100 user.

I keep looking for alternative.

Any idea, welcome.

neon22

I've been involved with the community sharing of resources since about 1990 in the UK when I got all the big 3D post houses to share their source codes and hacks (it was called s-hacks) for a 3D system (long gone) I worked on at the time.
It was inspiring to see so many people and companies - in competition in the marketplace - working together for their mutual gain. Although it did help that we didn't all go and tell upper management what we were doing...  :)

Specifically I am proposing that anyone, who can see the advantage, can add their machine to a distributed renderfarm at the time of their choosing. For an example where this works right now check out - http://www.renderfarm.fi/

Their model is slightly different on two counts. Its always free and it uses the BOINC distributed render mechanism. BOINC is very nice - it is well established and uses the screensaver kind of approach seen in seti@home and folding@home etc.

I should probably just use this mechanism - it has many advantages. But the curve for me to use it is too high in comparison to what I already have. If someone else wanted to setup using BOINC I would happily support them. It would probably last longer...

However I also have some specific issues I would like to address:

1. We need to use only licensed copies of TG2 to render. Happily the licensed TG2 allows CLI launch. Therefore we can safely keep within the terms of the license and allow only people with licensed copies of TG2 to render. This means our community can't encompass all the people who might want to help. We instead have a closed community of licensed users.

2. IWBNI we knew there was no chance of a virus infection.
 - The engine code will be in python and quite small. This will be a human readable program.
 - The data transferred will be tgd files which will be launched by executing TG2 with the file as an argument. So therefore safe.
 - The webserver will serve html. ftp will gather the data

3. There are several use cases it would be good to support:
 - rendering large images as distributed tiles (GI is better behaved these days but still this may be unworkable)
 - rendering animations
 - rendering panoramas (just an extension of tiled rendering)
 - rendering cropped portions with varying parameters to:
    - better understand the effects of params
    - to find a sweet spot nearby in parameter space
    - to see the effect on rendertime of parameter changes
(TG2 batch does all these currently but its hard to install and out of date for the latest version of TG2)

4. I have an idea for an addition to make also. This involves setting preferences for the render client to select what gets rendered. I propose two methods:

- One is to wildcard the name of the job submitter. In this way I can submit my own job to the farm and indicate that I would like my system to preferentially choose to render my own jobs.
  This ensures I spend all my resources on my own work first. This invites me to use the renderfarm all the time even for my own simple stuff. If there are cpu cycles left over in the morning then they will be used to render other people's work when mine is done.
  I can also indicate that I want to render (say) Dandelo's work because I think the current crazy and ill-advised project he is doing is interesting and I want to help out. :P

- Two is for monetary gain. If I submit a job and its important to me to get it rendered as soon as possible. I could ask everyone to wildcard my name or I could put a value on rendering it. This value would be distributed across all the members who helped me render it (based on weighted rendertime).
  So as a renderer I can say I also prefer jobs with monetary reward. This will preferentially have me rendering frames I will be paid for. Its not going to come to much - no one's going to get rich doing that but its a way to increase the render pool, get recompensed for helping the community, and offset electricity costs. I guess we'll be trading carbon credits one day...
  If you own a renderfarm - you can play as well - if you buy a TG2 license...


Anyway that's my 2 cents... I have to upgrade TG2 batch anyway and I've always wanted an excuse to play with django...
Feel free to critique, comment, abuse, etc. I'd like to make it useful above all other considerations

ndeewolfwood

QuoteThis ensures I spend all my resources on my own work first. This invites me to use the renderfarm all the time even for my own simple stuff. If there are cpu cycles left over in the morning then they will be used to render other people's work when mine is done.
   I can also indicate that I want to render (say) Dandelo's work because I think the current crazy and ill-advised project he is doing is interesting and I want to help out.
perfect.
QuoteTwo is for monetary gain. If I submit a job and its important to me to get it rendered as soon as possible. I could ask everyone to wildcard my name or I could put a value on rendering it. This value would be distributed across all the members who helped me render it (based on weighted rendertime).
   So as a renderer I can say I also prefer jobs with monetary reward. This will preferentially have me rendering frames I will be paid for. Its not going to come to much - no one's going to get rich doing that but its a way to increase the render pool, get recompensed for helping the community, and offset electricity costs. I guess we'll be trading carbon credits one day...
just yeah...


all of this sounds good.