SOPA or No SOPA?

rcallicotte · January 05, 2012, 04:58:23 PM

http://americancensorship.org/?action_code=FgxRWxYUOVIKQV0YAFYeUQ&td=VZFBSwMxEIX_SshJoU03a3dr14tSqid7kIIHKyHNZtvQ7M4ym1Sp-N-dYKUIucx8j_dmJl_cttp5XnE09wcjEIWBlo9443AInW4toRfYsoX23hkIwRLUdY2SQCnnbLVk82nYs7VF1CbRk-sTm8qioApt7dCaoCKmGOootSUzCOcK-qCOruZVF70f8QEiks1fFbf_G_0eugsNQPaqcd4OvHp7p47bdbFXDWCrkieXN5Rh0OpgVZ0i80zm40yOs4LlsipmVS4vCtertBvJZlNR5kKWpchldhHEwaLSO9slq2c4Oe_1ZlKIjF29uq6Gj4Gt1qwQ8o7hsboV2TV7suYAmwnlZvQke6RzNPC5mRBNxnvdBzJN00q6O01-PvvDImfL9DtsAd0O7TCQvIU6entW_G7Lv38A

AP · January 05, 2012, 05:49:46 PM

Absolutely not. Personally i feel the more Government we have the more the Bureaucracy takes away our freedoms. We can make a hundred laws trying to stop on-line piracy and people will always find a way around these laws. Take Drugs for example. As long as drugs exist the addicts will always find a way to access there addiction, even if they pay a high price, hurt others and go across borders to get those drugs. Point is you can not make enough laws to end these issues. It all comes down to one's principles, personal responsibility and morals. People will always break laws no matter how many are written and will always find loop holes around these laws, more laws is not the solution. Personal responsibility is. Just because some screw up does not mean the whole of the populous suffers with more rules on the books. Here in the US, i guarantee we are breaking laws we probably are unaware we are breaking. We have stacks and stacks or rules and regulations. This has not done much good at all.

Tangled-Universe · January 05, 2012, 06:15:51 PM

The SOPA and PIPA (Protect IP Act) are almost the purest form of evil and corruption if you'd ask me.
Both are only designed because the (still) extremely wealthy music labels and film distributors (like Paramount) have so ridiculously much money that they can infinitely effectively lobby themselves into many people of influence in the USA. The USA is the instigator of this, though they did not design ACTA alone, but SOPA and PIPA are unique to USA.
Only in a country where you can sue McDonalds for dozens of $millions because the coffee you stupidly spilled over yourself was 5 degrees too hot, can you come up with such ridiculous extreme acts/laws and actually even manage to get it effective. "Only in America". Which is fine, normally, but not when this crazyness affects all of the world.

The mechanism why all the laws in the world, which are faithful to the privacy rights and don't facilitate censorship etc., will not work is simply because these old-fashioned overfed companies completely refuse to change their strategies and are desperately clamping to their old-fashioned albums/dvd's for high prices with tons of copyprotections and copyright-notifications.

Take a look at Valve. Their CEO said that piracy is a non-issue to their company. Why? Because they deliver services people nowadays want, he said.
They offer games for sale which you can download and install anywhere, anytime, on all your computers if you want and you'll never lose it since your purchases are stored online.
That's what people want these days and no DVD's which you BUY and then have to look through dozens of trailers, copyright-warnings, FBI-warning and what not.
Or a $2 MP3 with DRM which you can only listen on your PC and/or 1 mobile device.

I really loathe from these industries and especially the 'politicians' who pretend they serve the people, but actually are only trying to stuff themselves with money or the jobs they get handed over after doing the entertainment industry some favors. Blegh!

And I even haven't started about the consequences SOPA and PIPA will have....oh my!

Oshyan · January 05, 2012, 06:27:17 PM

No SOPA.

- Oshyan

TheBadger · January 05, 2012, 10:14:25 PM

The Law (All law, for all time) has never stopped a single crime from occurring. No nation, government or civilization has ever prevented any abuse of one man by another by making any act, or behavior, criminal. The law has though, successfully been used to cary out horrible acts of violence against all peoples, nations and civilizations across the globe and throughout history. Whatever justice can be done as a result of SOPA, will inevitably be outweighed by the injustice it will facilitate.
Obama will probably sign SOPA.

SOPA is however, not as scary as the 'National Defense Authorization Act' (NDAA). signed into Law by Obama over the holidays. NDAA gives the U.S. Government the power to to seize and incarcerate US citizens without warrant, due process, or trial. In Obama's defense though, he has promised not to use these powers against US citizens.

Seriously, is anyone out there still going to defend this President?

AP · January 05, 2012, 10:31:04 PM

Yes, the NDAA is another bad one.

I want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

Keep Government out of the Market.

freelancah · January 06, 2012, 05:29:52 AM

No SOPA.

I'm a bit worried about a similar phenomena going on here in Finland. Laws are being passed that allow censorship of websites, alltho easily overriden with a proxy. Corporations can now apply for a permission to spy on their employees emails incase they suspect them of selling their company secrets (who would ever be so stupid to send such information thru company email??). And other stupid laws are being passed that just amaze me. I'm pretty sure the reason is mostly the fact that people passing the laws dont really understand what it's really about.. Atleast I hope that's the case.

I'm a part of a group called effi that supports on-line civil rights and we just managed to turn around a decision to close the maps and land survey data from the public, now they will be open information to everyone! Unfortunately we didn't have much effect on the cencorship laws, which to me seemed to violate the constitution of Finland, atleast partly..but yeah..

Tangled-Universe · January 06, 2012, 05:56:16 AM

It gets even worse it seems:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/01/05/letter-reveals-u-s-threat-moved-spain-to-implement-anti-piracy-law/

The USA makes war in countries in order 'to establish democracy'...what we see in the context of SOPA/ACTA/PIPA/NDAA is anything but democracy. Disgusting!

I'm pretty sure the sudden change in Dutch politics has to do with this as well. Parliament was against ACTA until the very last seconds of the voting a big party (PVV) decided to vote in favor of ACTA.
Another politician, Fred Teeven, 'suddenly' had an unhealthy interest in designing an anti-download law which at all efforts must be installed.
Parliament is against, so far, but he's saying he's looking into ways to circumvent that.
Makes one really wonder why he's so extremely motivated for doing that, as many investigations in The Netherlands show that CD/DVD sales did go down, but online sales of music really grows and the cinemas have increased profits and number of visitors year after year.

Capitalism has evolved far beyond it's optimal point/form and this is what it has turned into: corruption and anti-democratics.

AP · January 06, 2012, 06:51:55 AM

Personally i have nothing against Capitalism as a wonderful idea. What i am against is Corporatism "Crony Capitalism" and Government involved in the Market Place. This is what we are seeing before our eyes. It goes against the Constitution, our personal liberties and limits our freedom as a whole. The last thing anyone one want's is Tyranny but the truth is as Government grows and delves it's claws into our lives and commerce what we get are baby steps towards 1984, not saying it will be that outcome because i think we would revolt before that happens.

Tangled-Universe · January 06, 2012, 07:03:56 AM

Quote from: ChrisC on January 06, 2012, 06:51:55 AM
Personally i have nothing against Capitalism as a wonderful idea. What i am against is Corporatism "Crony Capitalism" and Government involved in the Market Place. This is what we are seeing before our eyes. It goes against the Constitution, our personal liberties and limits our freedom as a whole. The last thing anyone one want's is Tyranny but the truth is as Government grows and delves it's claws into our lives and commerce what we get are baby steps towards 1984, not saying it will be that outcome because i think we would revolt before that happens.

I agree with you as I have nothing against capitalism per se, but as I pointed out today's capitalism is not capitalism anymore as you explained.

I'm not entirely sure if the people would revolt. With the baby steps it's going to 1984 that is the exact clever mechanism on how they achieve these goals. If you install acts/laws out of the blue, people will revolt, but if you split the act in many parts which are less "worse" and install them one by one, slowly, then people lose sight of the greater picture, lose interest and lose influence. In the long-term all the amendments together IS that ridiculous act/law they initially wanted.
In Dutch we call this "sliding scale".

rcallicotte · January 06, 2012, 09:29:38 AM

@TU - In the U.S. we call this "slow boiling the frog".

Tangled-Universe · January 06, 2012, 03:00:16 PM

Quote from: calico on January 06, 2012, 09:29:38 AM
@TU - In the U.S. we call this "slow boiling the frog".

Ah, learned something again today, thanks

AP · January 06, 2012, 04:23:26 PM

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on January 06, 2012, 07:03:56 AM
Quote from: ChrisC on January 06, 2012, 06:51:55 AM
Personally i have nothing against Capitalism as a wonderful idea. What i am against is Corporatism "Crony Capitalism" and Government involved in the Market Place. This is what we are seeing before our eyes. It goes against the Constitution, our personal liberties and limits our freedom as a whole. The last thing anyone one want's is Tyranny but the truth is as Government grows and delves it's claws into our lives and commerce what we get are baby steps towards 1984, not saying it will be that outcome because i think we would revolt before that happens.

I agree with you as I have nothing against capitalism per se, but as I pointed out today's capitalism is not capitalism anymore as you explained.

I'm not entirely sure if the people would revolt. With the baby steps it's going to 1984 that is the exact clever mechanism on how they achieve these goals. If you install acts/laws out of the blue, people will revolt, but if you split the act in many parts which are less "worse" and install them one by one, slowly, then people lose sight of the greater picture, lose interest and lose influence. In the long-term all the amendments together IS that ridiculous act/law they initially wanted.
In Dutch we call this "sliding scale".

Indeed, today's Capitalism is not the same as yesterdays.

Peter Schiff (American Investment Broker) warned us of these issues and had predicted some of the onslaught but the Media laughed it off and now what do they have to say. Milton Friedman (Free-Market Economist) has issued these warning for decades.

I think that cleaver mechanism is starting to become noticed here in the US. It started with the Tea Party and Occupy and there is a growing degree of Ron Paul followers. He want's all of these acts here repealed. And that is just the beginning. So i do have some hope as long as the people continue to figure it out which i think they are. The Internet has become a powerful tool to spread this knowledge for these movements.

TheBadger · January 06, 2012, 10:46:20 PM

QuoteWhat i am against is Corporatism "Crony Capitalism"

QuoteI agree with you as I have nothing against capitalism per se, but as I pointed out today's capitalism is not capitalism anymore

I must agree! But we must not abandon faith in are selves, that our hard days work may bring a fair days pay! That we are worth something, and that this something can provide for us.

Quotebecause i think we would revolt before that happens

Any revolt must be cultural, because all of the problems we face are cultural. God save us if any revolt becomes violent in the west as in the middle east.

I also want to say I am for copy right protections! I want to own my work and be the only master of my work, so I would not take this away from anyone else. But not at the expense of my soul, or my nations. It is better that we tolerate theft of a DVD, than we allow our selves to be subjugated by military rule. Sadly, these are the apparent choices our 'ass hat' governments are allowing us. So sad.
Ron Paul is starting to look like a good candidate

AP · January 07, 2012, 01:51:38 AM

Quote from: TheBadger on January 06, 2012, 10:46:20 PM
QuoteWhat i am against is Corporatism "Crony Capitalism"
QuoteI agree with you as I have nothing against capitalism per se, but as I pointed out today's capitalism is not capitalism anymore

I must agree! But we must not abandon faith in are selves, that our hard days work may bring a fair days pay! That we are worth something, and that this something can provide for us.

Quotebecause i think we would revolt before that happens

Any revolt must be cultural, because all of the problems we face are cultural. God save us if any revolt becomes violent in the west as in the middle east.

I also want to say I am for copy right protections! I want to own my work and be the only master of my work, so I would not take this away from anyone else. But not at the expense of my soul, or my nations. It is better that we tolerate theft of a DVD, than we allow our selves to be subjugated by military rule. Sadly, these are the apparent choices our 'ass hat' governments are allowing us. So sad.
Ron Paul is starting to look like a good candidate

Yes. In a Free-Market system with minimal Government, everyone gets an opportunity, everyone gets a fighting chance and things are more fair because the power and choices are turned over to us and not some lobby group that thinks if ten percent likes one thing then by force the other ninety percent must like that as well. We can regulate ourselves and allow more locality. The government is there more to protect our rights, freedom and security but when it reaches beyond it's original authority then we are mere sheep. Allow the Market to dictate fairness because we are the Market through the exchange of services and goods by means of a free-flowing monetary system using sound money.

It already has become violent in some parts. The Occupy Wall Street movement has used violent means in certain instances sadly.

I hope more of us in the USA discover Ron Paul because if anyone want's to bring freedom back, he is the few politicians who are for such essentials. I see more folks figuring it out but there are still many who are reliant upon the Media and The Political Establishment as well. Washington has to be downgraded.