Why the Meltdown Should Have Surprised No One

[TheBadger]

Their are very smart people in sweden, but thats a very short list.

Lets make a list of everything that has been invented in sweden and compare it to a list of everything that has been invented in the U.S., or Germany, or...

[AP]

Let us not forget that Sweden is not the USA and the USA is not Sweden. It is comparing Apples and Oranges. What works for Sweden will not work for the USA. We left King George to escape tyranny, taxes and big government. To be more free to pursue our liberties and dreams, to run our own lives, to trade freely and protect our private property, both ourselves and our land ownership. However, over the last several decades, the corruption of centralized power and control has taken hold of what was once of great nation, weather it the Military Industrial Complex, Corporatism, Fascism, the government butting into our lives through agriculture, education, property, banking and so on. This alone defies The Declaration of Independence and not what our Founders had wanted and they warned of such occurances and were right.

The people are starting to see this as the Liberty Movement grows and both parties are being called out. Libertarians and Independents are being taken more seriously now.

Sweden is lovely, i would visit in heartbeat but if they survive the European onslaught, then good luck to them. Greece, Spain, France, Italy may be going down and the USA has no business bailing them out what so ever. Bad behavior should never be rewarded, ever.

[AP]

This is great.

http://youtu.be/W_F4I-pUgSE

[AP]

Nigel Farage is added to my Hero list.

[Walli]

if you have a "free" country, who does pay for the streets then? Who builds and runs schools? I think it´s not as simple as people like to put it.
I am totally with you, it´s pretty crazy what they are doing, and I think there indeed has to be more "liberty" - but I think it´s the state and politics that have to be freed.
I mean, they don´t do decisions that are good for the state. In my opinion a free market, capitalism is still the way to go. But there need to be rules, effective rules. And I think politicians have to be independent from cooperations.
Why can it be possible that large companies earn tons of money, that they always cry out for free market - but as soon as they have losses, the public has to pay for losses.
They try to hide the money they earn from state, but in case of losses they want money from state.

But this is only one part of the equation, as the problem is a lot more complex. Another point is that politicians and economists probably should take some lessons of physics. In general I think that really nobody knows what to do, but everyone claims to have the solution.

[TheBadger]

I agree walli.

But as things are, its a choice between lesser evils, not right and wrong. I wish I could choose whats right on my ballet, but they don't put that as an option.
Its either vote for one crook or the other. So really fixing the things you mentioned does not seam possible now. Most of us just want to survive our leaders and the companies that get them elected.

They don't even let us vote "No confidence" here.

[AP]

Streets can be privately owned and payed for. If we were allowed to keep more of our money to do with it as we please, we can be better at spending it then any government ever could. Large companies, charities and small businesses can add roads. (People seem to underestimate how much money goes into charities alone) It is not so impossible. There is and should be no mandate for the government to pay for the streets. Resources can be privately allocated and ran locally. If education can be ran privately which at one time in early US history it was then why not everything else. Man has a knack for such things. I have a hard time explaining such things as i am still learning so much.

Yes, rules but the market can regulate itself easy enough, Austrian Economics explanes this quite well. If you behave badly, you will not be bailed out. Insider trading needs to be eliminated. No lobby group connections. No banking bailouts. None of that. Get rid of all tax loop holes. Make the Tax Code very simple. Get rid of most taxes. Get government out of bed with businesses.

The real solution is less government and something more along the lines of Anarcho-Capitalism, eliminate the party system, give the folks back there private property rights, end the wars and close the world bases, get rid of taxes because we have to much government to pay for, get rid of the welfare state, allow gun ownership, end the war on drugs. In the end this is all about individual freedom of choice, to live out one's dreams, keeping the fruits of one's labor, opting out of the system as much as possible, just to be left alone and have liberty.

Human's want to be free but there are those who want power, greed and control. This is why big governments do not work and leads to serfdom and misery. Ultimately the system implodes upon itself as history always shows. Some may last longer then others but for how long. Europe is coming apart, The US is following, China continues to embrace capitalism in spite of there big state control which will have to change at some point. However, every day i see people waking up so there still lies hope. Most here in the US know the game is up.

The solution is simple. Does man want to dominate man to his injury or are we free agents to choose and do no harm  to others, to trade freely and progress forward with our liberties. We either vote for the more liberty minded folks, wait it out, let the system implode and start over or start a fight.

[Walli]

This all sounds very nice Chris,but

.....but there are those who want power, greed and control

messes it up. i don´t think that less or even no government will solve the problem. Only thing that happens would be a bunch of landlords and the small guy has to work for them. Probably I am to pessimistic.
At this stage we might have to much government and I think this only can change if politicians stop to do politics to get mighty. I think election systems would have to change.

They don't even let us vote "No confidence" here.

Thats one point I would like to see on election cards A)PartyA; B)PartyB; C)PartyC; D)none oy you cause you suck

[TheBadger]

D)none of you cause you suck

LOL! I would check that box this year just for spite! Good one 

[penang]

"Mrs Merkel .... repeated that growth should not be financed by more debt."

A third of Sweden's workforce are employed by government ...

Sweden ?

Why suddenly you bring up Sweden as an example ?

Or has Sweden become your strawman ?

Why only Sweden ? Why not Singapore ? Or Hong Kong ? Or Haiti ? or Rwanda ?

[efflux]

This all sounds very nice Chris,but

.....but there are those who want power, greed and control

messes it up. i don´t think that less or even no government will solve the problem. Only thing that happens would be a bunch of landlords and the small guy has to work for them. Probably I am to pessimistic.
At this stage we might have to much government and I think this only can change if politicians stop to do politics to get mighty. I think election systems would have to change.

They don't even let us vote "No confidence" here.

Thats one point I would like to see on election cards A)PartyA; B)PartyB; C)PartyC; D)none oy you cause you suck

What Chris describes would end up in Feudalism. Exactly what the rulers of the world want. That's not to say that smaller government isn't a good ideal but government is meant to be there to represent the interests of the people. Sometimes it's in the interests of the people for the government to have a large active role in something if the people are clever enough to choose a government that does the right thing. The problem is that they haven't done this so government is seen as the problem - just what the bankers and all the other tyrants actually want. They want "Governance" not Government. You've probably heard this term being used often now. The system that the US government is meant to operate within has nothing wrong with it i.e. the constitution. It is (was) the best system invented.

People fled to America to escape European tyranny. Now Americans talk of Austrian Economics, Keynesianism, even Democracy which isn't what the USA is supposed to be. It's mean't to be a Republic which once had an American system of economics. The government is supposed to create the money as credit not private banks with European Oligarchs as shareholders creating debt. The Fed, Wall Street and various other remnants of the old British Empire are back in charge. I've even seen Americans celebrating British Royalty - their absolute enemy. This is really incredible.

Ron Paul is no good anymore. He'd have been worth voting for in the past but it's a more serious situation now. You can't pay off the debt by cutting government spending. However, you can probably expect the Austrians to be utilised when the Oligarchs decide it's time For the US to get the Greece treatment. Just like always they will play the people like a deck of cards.

It has to be seen as a war situation but nobody identifies the enemy to be fought. It's the bankers who operate in the old Oligarchical European Empire way in case anyone hadn't realised that by now. Still largely centralised in the City Of London and headed up by the British Crown - who control the banking system along with a whole load of other things. They will simply asset strip every country. The PIGS (bankers talk for Portugal, Italy, Greece and Spain) are essentially already destroyed even more than if an invading army had been sent in. The bankers have no need for armies anymore in Europe or the US because the people there are so stupid they willingly give up all the independence and freedom that their ancestors fought for. No need for puppets with armies such as Napoleon or Hitler etc anymore. All you need to do is create worthless money from nothing and make the people reliant on it.

Money has no value whatsoever. Only productivity has. Notice how all the manufacturing in most of the west is quickly reducing to nothing. Eventually all the people will have is bits of worthless paper. Germany is the biggest exception in Europe but that's why they were conned into the Euro trap.

[rcallicotte]

@efflux - Very cool insights.  I have a couple of questions, though (with your quotes in bold) -

The government is supposed to create the money as credit not private banks with European Oligarchs as shareholders creating debt. -- It all starts with someone loaning someone money as far as I can see.  The U.S. borrowed from Holland, didn't they, to start up?

All you need to do is create worthless money from nothing and make the people reliant on it. -- Peter Schiff has said just this.  But, he thinks Big Government is the issue.  How do you see this?

[JimB]

Why suddenly you bring up Sweden as an example ?

Why troll a CGI discussion forum with partisan political threads? Get a room.

[Tangled-Universe]

Speaking of CGI Jim...anything to show of your recent works using TG?

[efflux]

@efflux - Very cool insights.  I have a couple of questions, though (with your quotes in bold) -

The government is supposed to create the money as credit not private banks with European Oligarchs as shareholders creating debt. -- It all starts with someone loaning someone money as far as I can see.  The U.S. borrowed from Holland, didn't they, to start up?

All you need to do is create worthless money from nothing and make the people reliant on it. -- Peter Schiff has said just this.  But, he thinks Big Government is the issue.  How do you see this?

I didn't reply here until now. Not really using TG2 often. It comes in phases. I've got a new Mac Mini quad core. I may try TG2 on that.

Anyway. The present world situation is dire. People in the US and Europe have become so utterly stupid it is unbelievable.

Yes, I guess the US started by lending money from Europe but they soon found that they were essentially a slave colony. The breaking away of the US from financial slavery from Europe by them printing their own money meant that they could build their own industry. Invest in the creativity of their own people. Banks are only interested in rent return. They will happily simply kill off the population or put them into slavery after they have stolen everything. The government is supposed to represent the people so they should also do that by deciding how money is released into the economy to do good for the people. Bankers don't care about this.

Yeah, I think Peter Schiff is generally an OK guy. The problem is that he sees things on too naive a level. Yes, Big government is usually bad but what would have happened if Roosevelt hadn't built up US infrastructure thus enabling the war machine against Hitler? A lot of people critique Roosevelt. Schiff would for sure but it depends if the government is doing right by the people or not. If your country is under attack the government needs to take charge. If it's an attack by Bankers then this is also applicable.

Obama is literally a nutjob narcissist (in the style of Nero) put in charge of the US to make sure the US can't do what Roosevelt did. The US is not alone. We have sewer rats in Europe running things.

Most psychologists will tell you that around 4 in every hundred people are psychopaths. Politics is their favourite occupation along with banking. I just don't get why people can't see this. It's at the heart of most of our problems. People seem to be very emotionally stupid. To pick up on psychopathic tendencies you need to be able see through peoples behaviour in an emotional way. Psychopaths fake emotional responses concerning things like empathy because they have none. To them everything is just business. Killing millions of people means nothing to them.