Population and object specific RTO-on/off and object selection

[TheBadger]

Hello,

I read in at least one place that someone else requested that it be made possible to turn ray trace objects on and off for objects within a single render.
I cant tell you how much this would help me! Rendering twice and compositing is nearly tolerable for stills, but its a complete loss for animation.

Also,
I will be sending in a project file as soon as I get the chance. In it you will see that I have placed a large number of objects manually. I found that selecting individuals for adjustment once the populations filled in, was a nightmare! I had to "command D" a lot, just to move one object a few feet. It was way to time consuming. Selecting and moving individuals in a highly populated scene it just terrible.

There needs to be a way to get the XYZ arrows to appear over an object from with-in the node network, and that objects needs to stay selected until it is manually turned off. Trying to select the "cross" in the preview window is by its self, just terrible.

[jo]

Hi,

Did you know you can select objects by context clicking in the preview and the choosing the object from the "Select Object or Shader" submenu?

Regards,

Jo

[TheBadger]

No! I will try that from now on. Thank you again jo!

But selecting the "Arrow", when from any number of views it is surrounded by other selection possibilities, the selector will still often choose  an undesired object, even if the mouse is right above the highlighted arrow head. The result is that the correct object is deselected.

[Tangled-Universe]

But selecting the "Arrow", when from any number of views it is surrounded by other selection possibilities, the selector will still often choose  an undesired object, even if the mouse is right above the highlighted arrow head. The result is that the correct object is deselected.

Yep, I complained about that too a couple of times and although it has improved it's still not optimal.

You need to make all populations invisible by manually selecting "hidden" as preview mode.
Then only the heightfield bounding box remains visible and is easily selectable.
However, this is supertedious and annoying as you often have many populations.

Also, if you disable the preview of objects in the 3D preview then the heightfield also disappears.
This is logical, but there's got to be another way to make it simpler:

So in addition we REALLY need the possibility to select multiple populations at once and edit their shared parameters like position and preview mode.
This would save soooo much time in setting up ~20 populations, which I often have and also allows for quickly hiding all the populations in the 3D preview for selecting other objects/heightfields.

It's really a 'fun killer' of TG2 that this is still so tedious/slow workflow.
Anyway, end of rant about this.

[TheBadger]

It's really a 'fun killer' of TG2 that this is still so tedious/slow workflow

Yes, this hits the nail on the head for me. Its not that TG2 is dysfunctional.No! TG2 is highly functional! Its just these little things that kill me. I can deal with render times, because sometimes long render times are just necessary, scene complexity and what not.

But these little issues just suck all of my energy up. Waiting for feed back kills my creative spirit. So adding these little matters to rendering times, I'm surprised that I have stayed with this at all.
But in fairness I think that my sticking to this is a testimony to how much is great about tg2. I mean, there is obviously something here that makes it all worth it, for me anyway.

[jo]

Hi,

I thought I would say that I've been doing working on managing and manipulating objects. I've haven't got to improving the selection behaviour yet but it's something I'm going to look it. Just thought you would like to know we're aware of these kinds of issues and something is being done about them.

Regards,

Jo

[TheBadger]

Hey Jo,

I know! But its good to hear you say so too. Some times we just need to complain is all

*edit:O yeah. Please check your e-mail. I sent that file to you guys. If your working on the managing objects stuff now, there is a description of a new issue in the "read me"

[TheBadger]

Hey jo.

I just tried the right click select object method you informed me of. This is much better!!! Thank you.
Sorry I did not find that on my own, but as a matter of fact I did think to look for something like that, but I tried to right click in the node window Now that I think about it, clicking in the preview is clearly logical.

One thing I noticed is the object order in the selection area of this quick method, is much preferable to what Im seeing in my node network. That is, by the method you shared I saw all of my objects arranged by group and alphabetized! Finding a specific object was fast and easy!!!
When you get a chance to see the files I sent, you will see that i have a lot of problems I would very much like to encourage you to make the node network function like that quick window you showed me (if its possible to do?). That would be ideal! (Just giving feedback now, no complaining )

Also,
something else I hope you will consider. When I selected my object by the new method, i was disappointed to see that the same object was not also selected in the node network and the object control panel. It would be VERY helpful and time saving, if there was an easy way to select an object in every UI pannel at the same time.


(mmmm kay, this is the right thread )

[Kadri]

+1

http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=14427.msg141093#msg141093

[jo]

Hi,

I would very much like to encourage you to make the node network function like that quick window you showed me (if its possible to do?). That would be ideal! (Just giving feedback now, no complaining )

I'm not quite sure what you mean. When you say the "node network" do you mean when using the list in the top left of the main window when you have the "Node Network" button pressed in the toolbar?

Also,
something else I hope you will consider. When I selected my object by the new method, i was disappointed to see that the same object was not also selected in the node network and the object control panel. It would be VERY helpful and time saving, if there was an easy way to select an object in every UI pannel at the same time.

We might add something like this. It would probably have to be a preference because it isn't for everyone. I would find it very annoying for example :-). If I have put the node network in a certain location to work on something then I don't want it to change just because I have selected an object in the preview. I do see that people might like the behaviour you're suggesting though so if we will look at working it in.

One thing I might add is that it's very easy to open the parameter view for the object/shader selected in the preview. Simply hit alt-enter/option-return and the parameter view will open in a new window.

Regards,

Jo

[TheBadger]

I'm not quite sure what you mean. When you say the "node network" do you mean when using the list in the top left of the main window when you have the "Node Network" button pressed in the toolbar?

Sorry jo, I meant; make the objects list in the node network, *order* the objects *like* in the quick select window you told me about. That is,  all objects automatically grouped by kind and alphabetized, that would be GREAT.

On your other comment... I would like it to be something that could be turned on or off too. I would find it annoying also. But when I'm editing populations and individuals in a nearly finished (highly populated) scene. Then this feature, I know, would be very nice for me.

[Oshyan]

What is the specific need for having the object node selected/centered in the network view if you can open the properties of it from the 3D preview? Is it simply so you can visually/spacially keep track of which objects you've edited and are working on?

- Oshyan

[otakar]

Hi,

I thought I would say that I've been doing working on managing and manipulating objects. I've haven't got to improving the selection behaviour yet but it's something I'm going to look it. Just thought you would like to know we're aware of these kinds of issues and something is being done about them.

Regards,

Jo

Jo, if you could implement some sort of population grouping where individual populations could inherit such settings as population area, preview visibility and object scale, it would solve a lot of issues. I often add populations on an experimental basis and having to replicate these settings for a new population from existing ones is repetitive, error prone and takes time.

[TheBadger]

What is the specific need for having the object node selected/centered in the network view if you can open the properties of it from the 3D preview? Is it simply so you can visually/spacially keep track of which objects you've edited and are working on?

- Oshyan

Yes, in part. One of the problems with importing the same objects over and over again is that you either have to rename them, this is not fun. Or, you have to go with naming like, object.obj, object.obj_1, object.obj_1_1... And as you can see in the files I sent, especially file#2, the difference between finding an object in the node object list, and finding the same object in the quick find (right click preview) is quite clear. The quick version is better, even GREAT by comparison. Even without comparison the quick option seems ideal.

The real problem though, is that if I want to move an object as well as make changes to to the internal workings, I have to select the object in two or more places. The quick menu to get the XYZ axis, and the node network to get the guts of it. That takes twice as long as it should. And when your doing this over and over again, the way a designer or a painter works, you can see the problem.

But why change how objects are ordered if tg2 has both options now? Read on.

My requesting this comes mostly as a result of seeing what happens to the object list in the node network when an object is deleted. If (on a mac) a user deletes an object, TG2 creates a gap in the list. This gap does not fill with the next object in line. The result is that by the time you have added a ton of objects, everything gets out of order. When you close and reopen the project everything has moved. There are other issues.

Another issue I found was that if you cancel adding an object, a null place holder is installed in the the object node list. If you delete this place holder, a another gap appears in the list, and the order problem gets worse. Although, this is preferable to the last version of TG2, where canceling an object import would cause Tg2 to crash on me every time.

So I would assume that you guys will be making some changes to this part of Tg2. And I just wanted to give some feed back as to things I think would help me use tg2 faster and better. Just suggestions from a user. But you guys are the Pro's!

In the end none of the things I have reported can stop a user from doing what he wants in TG2, the issues just slow work down, and suck the fun out.

[jo]

Hi,

I have never come across the behavior of a gap being left in the list myself, but then I don't spend a lot of time working on scenes myself. It's the first time I've heard of it in fact! I will have to check that out. This is the sort of thing you should report to us as a bug. If something seems odd, which this certainly falls into, then please let us know about it.

Regards,

Jo