A cliff somewhere in Oceania -> v3 @ page 2

Started by Tangled-Universe, September 14, 2012, 05:36:00 AM

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Tangled-Universe

Hi everyone,

This render shows 13 models from the new Oceania bundles of XFrog.
The 2 grass populations are from NWDA.

I'd like to thank Stewart for letting me have a good with these very nice bundles :)
More to come of other new bundles soon.

Cheers,
Martin

Tangled-Universe

Full resolution.

masonspappy


Mahnmut

I think that´s what called "lush" vegetation in english, isn´t it?
Great vegetation , the kind that also in the real world makes one want to be in the middle of it, until one finds the thorns.
risking to sound singleminded, I dare to say the rock reminds me of Phobos.
Best regards,
J

TheBadger

It has been eaten.

Dune

Very nice, Martin. I like the way the ferns cling to the wall, but especially this; it seems like an object that is tilted one way, and you might have restricted the rotation to let them all have their leaves 'hanging'.
The water part may get some more light, I'd say. It's a bit obscure and I think you can get more out of that.
I like the rocks too.

Jo Kariboo

I very like the color and the texture of the rock. Very nice !!!

Hetzen

#7
You've got a good scene here Martin. Love the vertical streaks. They could quite easily be darker/reflective water drainage streaks as well.

To me, the red seems too far away colour wise from being dry erosion of the verticle texture.

Ivy Generator might be quite cool on this.

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: Hetzen on September 15, 2012, 04:17:28 PM
You've got a good scene here Martin. Love the vertical streaks. They could quite easily be darker/reflective water drainage streaks as well.

To me, the red seems too far away colour wise from being dry erosion of the verticle texture.

Ivy Generator might be quite cool on this.

Jeez...this is eerie Jon!
why? My next iteration addresses all these 3 suggestions :)

Thanks mate!

Tangled-Universe

Quote from: Dune on September 15, 2012, 04:18:01 AM
Very nice, Martin. I like the way the ferns cling to the wall, but especially this; it seems like an object that is tilted one way, and you might have restricted the rotation to let them all have their leaves 'hanging'.
The water part may get some more light, I'd say. It's a bit obscure and I think you can get more out of that.
I like the rocks too.

Thanks Ulco. About the fern objects (Bird's Nest Fern, Oceania 1 Bundle) on the vertical wall: it's in the model. In the XFrog documentation these are described as "epiphytic" and thus are actually meant to grow on other vegetation. Like we know that's not really possible (although you can do some tricks with fern offset position and have it seeded along with trees, if you know what I mean).
Anyway, I liked the idea of these Bird's Nest Ferns on the vertical wall.

The water has some density added to it which may affect the overall appearance and may make it look less 'bright'. Maybe I can increase reflectivity to 1.5 in the future in similar situations. It's pretty hard and as you can see the issue of blotchy shadows appeared again. Shame.

TheBadger

Martin, out of curiosity, what render times are you getting for your super real stuff. You don't need to be too specific. But in general you output at what size for a final, and in general you have a render time of what(ish) for your finals? Like I said, just curious.
It has been eaten.

Tangled-Universe

Hi Michael,

I don't mind answering very specific questions :) Actually, rendertimes are always very specific for every scene, that's why.
As usual you can take it almost anywhere you like.

I rendered this at 2400x1920 resolution and it took 8 hours I believe. I used AA8 with stringent adaptive sampling and detail is 0.75.
Furthermore I use increased ray detail multiplier for underwater detail/refractions and to reduce the dependency of GI on the detail setting slider.
As you may know the ray detail multiplier is set to 0.25 default. With detail set to 1 in the renderer that means that under water features are rendered at 1 x 0.25 = @ detail 0.25.
This also accounts for GI rays.
Increasing the detail slider in the renderer will increase the # GI rays (dots in the GI pass).
Increasing the ray detail multiplier will also increase the number of GI rays.
*Basically the #GI rays = detail x ray detail multiplier x GI relative detail.*
Just render the default scene and compare the number of dots in the GI pass when you increase the multiplier to 1.
Do the same with the default scene, but instead of increasing the ray detail multiplier to 1 increase the detail level to 1.
This should look the same.

Anyway, I rendered this in two steps:

1) Water disabled and GI 4/4/4, no surface details. I needed this to get detail in the lighting under the leafs of those ferns/palms onto the grasses/mosses.
2) Water enabled and GI 2/4/6, no surface details. I needed this to have the water render considerably faster. Logically, I only rendered a crop of the image to only render the water and I used some ray detail region padding to make sure that surfaces outside the cropped area were also accounted for in reflections and shadows.
3) Combine the two in PS.

An interesting approach is to not render this with GI 4/4/4 initially, but double the resolution and use GI 2/4/6. I haven't investigated yet which is really faster and/or which one is more memory conserving, but to get detailed lighting in tiny areas of screenspace you can choose to increase render resolution and use a lower GI sample density (GI relative detail that is and is the same as GI rays).

If I would render this image at 1k tall/wide and GI at more normal settings like GI 2/4/8 then this takes about 1 hour on my 2600K with 16GB RAM.

I could talk for hours about how to achieve realistic images, but it's also in the eye of the beholder.
Ryan (RArcher) renders from a photographers perspective and the lighting in his scenes is more esthetic and approaches the way a camera would capture it more than my usual work.
Frank (FrankB) uses different shading colours and lighting than me. Consequently he creates realistic images with sometimes huge contrasts.
Something hard for me to as I have another philosophy/approach.
I work from the perspective of how I would see it with my bare eyes. That would mean that in one image I'd like to have detail in shadows of surfaces as well as detail in shadows of atmosphere. With a digital camera that's not possible in a single shot, unless you resort to HDR solutions.
It's a challenging way of working and I admit it's definitely not the best and most realistic one in terms of how a real camera would capture it.

Basically my advice for realistic work is:
1) lighting: I pay attention to my shadow/direct lighting ratio in my images and how I can use it to emphasize aspects of my image I find interesting. In this situation the lighting direction offers enough shadows in the vegetation but also silhouettes a significant part of the rock.
Lately I really have the tendency to have >50% of the image space in shadow while the vast majority of work you see out here uses the opposite.

2) consequently to #1 you need good lighting and either need to use good GI settings or high resolution rendering as another approach to catch detail in the lighting. See above.

3) use decent AA for your objects. Either use AA6 with full sampling or AA8 with adaptive sampling and noise threshold to around 0.03. AA6 full sampling is almost as good, mostly eerie similar to AA8, but definitely faster.

4) Be gentle with everything: colour-contrasts (I made a mistake here which Jon/Hetzen perfectly pointed out) and contrast in displacement.
The strata shader here has plateau steepness and builtup values of <0.1!
There's also quite some voronoi involved, but not that much visible directly. I think/hope at least!

5) probably more, when it comes to my mind I'll post about it...

I'd say my weakest points of my work is that I have no photographers eye when it comes to TG2 and that I find it hard to sell a picture.
To make an interesting render or photograph you need some central subject or something particularly interesting.
Mostly my shots are just shots of a nicely built scene, but with no specific point of interest or grand breathtaking vista.

Tangled-Universe

2nd POV. I will apply some ivy's here and there and some other improvements, mainly on the foreground soil and grasses.

Hetzen

Some nice translucency in those ferns Martin. And the rocks are looking stunning. Those reflective dark streaks really help them, maybe a little more overall reflectivity on the rock? Even so, this POV and those tweaks mean you can now see all the detail you've blended in the displacements.

Dune

Totally different, but also a great image, Martin! Although I would personally prefer some more light on the rocks it IS very photographic this way, with the 'blinding' light from the sky.