"ROADSIDE" NWDA IMAGE CHALANGE ~ Richard Fraser

Started by cyphyr, February 24, 2013, 12:53:43 pm

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Tangled-Universe

Yeah I liked the initial setup better too, but that's only because this current setup isn't executed as intented / as like the references and just a WIP so we will have to look at this from that perspective rather than how it looks at this moment.
Like Frank already said, the current setup you're going for is very very challenging.
There's still plenty of time to get it right though, so at the moment I certainly wouldn't give up!


Perhaps, but I don't know your workflow of course, you can try to do each sky element separately.
First your cumulus shapes and their placements. Then smaller streaks of clouds and finally the smallest clouds.
What I personally find challenging with multiple cloud layers is the way their lighting differs because of depth and density differences.


Keeping the colour settings at default is perhaps the easiest to start with so you can focus on the right shape and density of the clouds.
From there you can tweak the lighting and scattering settings and as final step start matching the cloud colours.
Perhaps this is already your workflow, but I'm just trying to think along and sharing my ideas.


Looking forward to your next one!

cyphyr

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on March 29, 2013, 12:23:17 pm
...
What I personally find challenging with multiple cloud layers is the way their lighting differs because of depth and density differences.
...


Yes this is just the problem I'm facing. With a single layer the lighting is predictable but once other layers are added and clouds are viewed "through" there seems to be a tendency for the obscuring layer to change the lighting of the layer behind it. This may be an optical illusion but it is annoying nonetheless.

Still unclear what people mean by "initial setup" there's been so many! could you reference the pic?

cheers

Richard
www.richardfraser.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
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Ryzen 9 3900X @3.79Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 6:20)
i7 5930K @3.5Ghz, 32Gb (TG4 benchmark 13.44)

Tangled-Universe

Well...this is your second idea for a cloud setup so I guess everyone, at least me, means your first one.


I feel with you about those layers obscuring lighting of others.
As a matter of fact there may be some limit to how many cloud layers you can have in an atmosphere before no light is passed on to the bottom layer anymore.
I believe Frank once said the hard limit is 3 or 4 cloud layers, but I have used more without much trouble. I guess it has to do with the composition of all those clouds.
In my case none had great depth and or density, so there might be a clue there. If there's a limit though.

FrankB

No, I didn't mean "hard" limit, as in "Tg won't allow more". I mean 3 layers is a practical limit, for cloud layers of reasonable depth and density. If you have three layers, all casting shadow on the layer below, there will be almost no lighting left for the lowest, except GI. But of course that depends on depth and density too.


You could use a trick, Richard: don't make the large cumulus so big. Instead, make them like 500 to 1000 tall, but pull them much lower, so that they appear bigger.




Oshyan

I love the concept and general execution of this scene. Agree with others about the clouds. But I'm wondering too if anyone else feels there's a scale problem here, I think it's to do with the city. It just doesn't look big or distant enough. Not certain what creates this impression, maybe that the hills don't decrease in size with distance as much as you'd expect, in comparison to the theoretical/assumed size of the city which looks to be at similar distance. Richard, is the city actually at a "real world" scale? Is everything else also done at real world scales? If so, it may just be one of those optical illusions, but may be worth trying to correct for the sake of realism and judging. But again let me say I really like this scene, it's one of my favorites thus far.

- Oshyan

otakar

Sorry Richard, I know you changed the cloud layer up in each iteration, but the dramatic changes happened fairly recently. I think out of those you posted I like RaodTrashTest-02.jpg the best (just focusing on the clouds, mind you).

Dune

RoadsideAtmos-0013 was the best! Cloud and terrain wise. I would go from there with the terrain, but leave the clouds as soft and menacing as they are. I also liked the green side of the terrain better, as it wasn't too green. You still see some rocks and dirt.

TheBadger

I like the new clouds, but the old clouds look better with the terrain and composition. And not in any interest for compromise, but wouldn't it look good to have the old clouds under the new ones? Or do these cloud types not occur in nature together?
It has been eaten.

cyphyr

Quote from: TheBadger on March 30, 2013, 04:00:09 am
... , but wouldn't it look good to have the old clouds under the new ones?...

Absolutely, that was the look I was going for in the first place, got a little side tracked. Done a couple of quick tests and it's looking good, I'll post an update later today.
Thanks for the reminder.
Richard
www.richardfraser.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
/|\

Ryzen 9 3900X @3.79Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 6:20)
i7 5930K @3.5Ghz, 32Gb (TG4 benchmark 13.44)

Jo Kariboo


cyphyr

Phew, I think this is an improvement. A combination of some of the previous renders but keeping the new elements I particularly wanted. Specifically the high whispy cirrus and the partially hidden cumulus. This little section rendered in 5h20m and could do with a little less noise in the foreground cloud so the final will probably be at least a day to render, probably more! (Every thing else to render and at a larger size)

I will probably move the sun once I see how it's illuminating the landscape.

C&C very welcome  :) Couldn't have got this far without it!

Cheers

Richard
www.richardfraser.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
/|\

Ryzen 9 3900X @3.79Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 6:20)
i7 5930K @3.5Ghz, 32Gb (TG4 benchmark 13.44)

Tangled-Universe

I'm curious how this will look combined with the rest of the image.
That noise in the foreground can't be removed if you'd ask me. It's noise from the fractal and no matter how many samples you throw at it, it won't render smoothly, unless you make the cloud a lot denser and that's of course what you don't want.
The cumulus congestus are the only cloud element which could still use some work on shapes and especially lighting.
You can try something like this:
edge sharpness 15
density 0.025
cloud colour 0.25
scatter colour 0.15
propagation 2
propagation mix 0.5
fake internal scattering ~1

The scales of the new clouds look good as far as I can judge from this crop.




Speaking of scales; I agree with Oshyan about the scale of the city.
If you can fix that little scale issue then the image will probably start to work by itself, if you see what I mean.


Cheers,
Martin

TheBadger

^^



Me too! The new test looks nice on its own. But that does not give any assurance at all that it will work in context. I do like it though.
It has been eaten.

cyphyr

Rendered a lower res over night. It's shown up a few known issues but nothing new which at this stage is a relief.
I agree about the city, it needs to be re-modeled or abandoned completely and the grass/ground cover is far too vibrant.
It's still missing something though ...
C&C welcome :)
Richard
www.richardfraser.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
/|\

Ryzen 9 3900X @3.79Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 6:20)
i7 5930K @3.5Ghz, 32Gb (TG4 benchmark 13.44)

Tangled-Universe

The sky still misses some kind of coherency...how do you say.
The dark grey cloud could be quite a bit brighter, more towards the high altitude clouds.


I think this would/could become more realistic that way, since you've kind of exposed the shot for the sky now, hence the darker shadows in the vegetation. If you'd expose for the vegetation the sky would be blown out.
Therefore I think that the dark grey cloud could be brighter and also your cumulus clouds.

Perhaps when you have fixed this it will fall together more automatically?