Photoreal ~ what makes it?

[FrankB]

But...but Frank "normal photo camera" ?   

I think you understand.

[cyphyr]

...
A purple carrot still looks like a purple carrot in B&W, so you have to get everything straight before adding in the photoreal look.

Ah that's cleared that up. I shall sleep easy now. lol

Richard

ps: did you know carrots used to be purple!

[Kadri]

But...but Frank "normal photo camera" ?   

I think you understand.

Yes and i think you too Frank

[Kadri]

http://photoreal3d.wordpress.com/category/photorealism-in-3d-cgi-imagery/#

[gregsandor]

... I didn't realize the contest was really about simulating a photo,

Neither did I.  So now it seems it is more a rendering style contest than a landscape contest.  Since that's the case I'll be going for something like these advertising postcards for my roadside diner:

[attach=1]

[Tangled-Universe]

Hi Greg and others,

No it isn't such a contest. This has little to do with render "style".

It's a landscape contest with the road(side) theme and with the aim to produce the most photo realistic look.
I have deliberately written photo realistic seperately because the renders need to look realistic in the beginning before you can even start thinking about the photo part of photo realistic.

[FrankB]

Guys, you are totally rat-holing into a secondary and subjective aspect of the contest.

It's interesting to debate what makes a render look realistic, and we have mutually discovered that it all starts with making the render elements and lighting look realistic. There is no need to postwork anything per se, if your render comes out looking realistic in your eyes, however in a lot of cases a slight postwork can increase the perception of "real".
It's up to you to decide. We have only started to share know-how about techniques to do so.

I would say: focus on getting the most realistic looking render in the first place. Everything else is secondary or tertiary.

There is no such thing that the contest is "more a rendering style contest than a landscape contest".

[FrankB]

But...but Frank "normal photo camera" ?   

I think you understand.

Yes and i think you too Frank

Not sure you really understand. Otherwise you would not have made that statement back to me. I wouldn't have thought that this subject would require any more clarification, but here we go:

Maybe you understand it this way: You go into the store of an electronics retailer of your choice, in year 2013, go to the camera section, and buy any camera from there of your choice, and a general purpose lens with it. The pictures you made with this camera would give you photo real images. Alternatively you make pictures with your iphone or whatever.

Keep it simple! :-)

Cheers
Frank

[gregsandor]

When it comes to creating photo real CGI shots do we aim for the rather dull snapshot or try to emulate the great photographers who would try to capture the essence of a scene with drama, contrast and camera views none of which we would expect to experience as part of our daily lives. ... which would be "photo real"?

I agree they both would, but in terms of getting a viewer to suspend disbelief I'd go for the dull snapshot, not only because it is more common, (and just as difficult to achieve) but also because when I see a dramatic image, after the shock of the first glance fades, I look closer to try to see what the photographer did to make it so powerful.  If I'm trying to fool the eye I don't want extra analysis done by the viewer.  I want him to see a photograph, believe it, and move on, so the shock comes to him only after he learns that it wasn't real at all.

... focus on getting the most realistic looking render in the first place. ...
There is no such thing that the contest is "more a rendering style contest than a landscape contest".

Then I am confused because earlier you said

Let's not forget that for the purpose of the contest, we're talking about PHOTO real, so it has to look like a photograph as much as possible. (Of a half-way modern camera and lens).
So in that sense, adding the imperfections of a lens is a must.

[FrankB]

I said that, and I mean it, but the first and foremost thing that the contest aims for is a realistic look of the things rendered, including the lighting.
(Look at the 3 bullet points I also wrote to that in the beginning of the thread, to get your quote into some context please.)

That alone makes a render more or less real, depending on the quality of the execution. Already with the rendering, you will determine how much photo real the image looks.
In my personal opinion, I would not stop there, and continue to work the render further in post to add the imperfections of a normal, general purpose camera lens.
You do that too, or you don't. Your call.

Frank

[gregsandor]

I said that, and I mean it, but the first and foremost thing that the contest aims for is a realistic look of the things rendered, including the lighting.
(Look at the 3 bullet points I also wrote to that in the beginning of the thread, to get your quote into some context please.)

That alone makes a render more or less real, depending on the quality of the execution. Already with the rendering, you will determine how much photo real the image looks.
In my personal opinion, I would not stop there, and continue to work the render further in post to add the imperfections of a normal, general purpose camera lens.
You do that too, or you don't. Your call.

Frank

In the case of my diner environment the only thing not based in the real world is the camera.  The highway is graded properly with displacement maps (so water runs off) according to modern highway code, the signs are scale models built using the U.S. Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices (even down to the nuts and bolts holding them on to the steel posts), the diner and other structures are built from measured drawings and photos, the tar seams are placed by tracing an orthophoto, heck, even the junk along the roadside is placed by referring to Google Streetview!  As for lighting and atmosphere, I use the U.S. Naval Observatory Sun Position Calculator so that it is accurate for time and place, and refer to local photos of the location for cloud cover and haze, fog, etc. 

With all that, I'd say only a handful of the hundreds of renders I've made of the area look like photographs.  They do look like the place they represent though.  So a closely scaled model environment in itself isn't going to look photoreal on its own. 

Since you're judging the contest, not me, it is more important what you consider photoreal, and what you think lens distortion and how much chromatic abberation should be applied, especially since I don't generally postwork my images.  What do you want to see done to our renders, what make you think a rendered image is a photograph?

[Kadri]

Frank do you have to be so much serious? Did you saw the smiley?
I was only implying that with "normal" we could debate endlessly what it means in a humorously way (and had no intent to) and that you understand that...
So yes everybody knows what you mean i hope , but if everything were so easy this thread would have ended in the second post as you said.
I am sure some users will learn something from here.
No smiley this time !
I think you get the smileys in a wrong way.
That is in general a way to show that the user isn't serious and joking.
I am not angry but looking at your post and that you didn't use smileys at all hard to say what you think.

[FrankB]

No Greg, you are making things more complicated that they need to be. Let's stop this now, as I can just continue to repeat my previous messages.

For the record, we haven't decided yet if the winners will be determined by a jury, or by the forum users, but in any case I am not the only judge by far, and I believe most people can tell a photo real render from a non photo real one, hence it is not about my perception alone.

It's great if you can achieve that without further work in post.

Regards
Frank

[FrankB]

I am not angry but looking at your post and that you didn't use smileys at all hard to say what you think.

Well look again, I did use one
I thought it was worthwhile clarifying it more, that's all.

Cheers! And I expect you to enter, now that you have already spent so much time talking with me about the contest

and an extra one for you:

[Kadri]

LOL!