PRISM

[efflux]

Guys, notice how David Cameroon is pushing for free trade agreement with US and EU. One of the cornerstones of the Britisih Empire was free trade. It was part of the tyranny thast caused the American revolution. Also, Cameron is trying to quickly lock the UK into this because there is massive growing opposition to the EU and growing support for UKIP. Free trade enables big corporations to make countries interdependant so they can lock everyone down into poverty and government control of trade by big corporations is lost. At the same time Cameron is on about clamping down on tax evasion of these corporations. Lies and more lies and Obama is simply a stooge working for this agenda.

[Tangled-Universe]

This trade agreement will become the all in one agreement covering corporate asses in multiple ways.
ACTA looks pale in comparison to this new treaty for example.
The next thing, after this, is a truly corporate government.
We already almost have it, if not already, but it will become a public(ally accepted?) thing that corporations make the law and tell governments how the business needs to be runned. More people realise that politicians are just puppets/marionettes of corporate interests.

I know none of you here live in The Netherlands, but I can dump a few links here to Dutch companies you can pay who in turn will lobby for you in our government to help you in your business.
In a normal world among the average people that's simply called corruption.

All these Sci-Fi movies showing dirty consumed planets with armed corporate entities who have the absolute power and make the calls.
I wonder how much fiction that will be in the future.

I can write endless stories and dump countless links on how sick the whole situation is getting, but I will refrain from that.
Sometimes I wish I was dumb and indifferent about everything around me, like so many others who are indifferent. Ignorance truly is a bliss lol

[FrankB]

Hey guys,

I think you're going a bit crazy here with your visions of the future, and speculations about who is the enemy of what.
I love this place for argumentation, and this conversation is no exception, but it becomes a bit weird to have too much conspiracy theory woven into it ;-)

I think you truly believe what you are writing - otherwise, why would you bother typing all this? However, I think your scenarios and speculations are built on a lot of assumptions and generalizations, and possibly focus on the worst possible outcomes.

In particular - and that one gave me a laugh - I do not follow on why the city of London is supposed to be the USA's biggest enemy.

Anyway, surely because I do not confirm your negative speculations, you will be tempted to brand me as a stupid ignorant, whichfor I am blissed ;-)

Cheers
Frank

[TheBadger]

Despite the pleasure I get from indulging in conspiracy theories (not unlike zombie stuff) I am inclined to agree with Frank again on this.

We have real problems in the world, that do not require anymore proof. Things that are clearly visible to everyone regardless of specialized knowledge (banking, economics, government, intelligence). I wish people would focus their energy on the things that are proven more than things that are likely never going to be proven, especially if they are true.

For example, in the US, the killing of the 15 year old boy. It is likely a murder carried out by the government. The chain of command reaching to the President. If Americans would focus on just this thing alone, we could have the SOB impeached by the end of the week. See what I mean?

PRISM is another example where we can do real action... Last night the writer of the "Patriot act" said in no uncertain terms, that PRISM is both illegal and unconstitutional, and that the government knows so.

If we focused on that we may be able to shut this crap down?

Still, I do enjoy the conspiracy stuff, which in the end, is probably mostly true.

[Tangled-Universe]

Well I think you guys are the last I would call ignorant and of course I'm exaggerating a bit here and there.
I guess though that a polluted planet by fearless corporations isn't that far from the truth.
Just search for palmoil industry in Brasil and Indonesia, it's devastating.
Not to mention oil and mining industry. The mess is much bigger than we're allowed to know and I've only mentioned 3 out of dozens of options.

It's funny though.
There's a Dutch website with a pretty huge forum with one subsection called "Brave New World" where they discuss this weird conspiracy stuff.
Chemtrails, food/water poisoning, reptillians and what not. LMAO about those subjects. I'm open to alternative stuff, but that's really beyond me.
What's funny though, is that they are now revamping old thread from many years ago about where they speculate on the truth about the financial crisis, on spying on people, on suspicions about bad/corrupt politicians and/or corporations etc. etc.
Why do they revamp those threads? Because the lunatics and tin foil hats from that time were so damn right it seems now.
To the letter, to the name, to the mechanisms and actions they describe. Much of it seemed to be true and so were they back then about what's now known as PRISM.

I know funny and absolutely unplausible things are said and discussed on those alternative, less known, websites.
But if you filter out the most absolute crap and do a bit of research on the names of the journalist and people mentioned in the article you can estimate reasonably well if it's total nonsense or has some plausibility.

In my opinion, since everybody seems to agree or know that mainstream media is manipulative, one is really depriving him/herself if he/she isn't reading at least some alternative news sources.
A mild one for example is RussiaToday. It's pretty anti-kapitalistic, not necessarily anti-western, so that gives useful and different angles on the economical news.
Same goes for Al-Jazeera, although that is slowly changing, it used to give a (slightly) different view on Middle-East problematics.
There are also interesting books, like Joris Luyendijks'  book on how the mainstream media systematically spreads false information to the western society:
http://www.amazon.com/People-Like-Us-Misrepresenting-Middle/dp/1593762569/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1371587239&sr=8-1&keywords=joris+luyendijk
Of course there are plenty other interesting ones which offer a different view than AP and Reuters, who seem to be quoted by the entire press-entity.
There's always a completely other side of the story which you can't ignore if you want to develop an opinion outside the one being generated for you by AP or Reuters and the like.

I always like to think the truth is in between the 2 extremes and that's already a pretty serious situation we're in now.

That's where I agree with Michael.
At some point, perhaps now or in the near future it is truly enough and we need to stand up and try to make an end to these epic lies and business.

[cyphyr]

On mobile so can't easily post links.
Chemtrails is now acknoledged by both UK and US governments. Theres a report on it on the uk government web site. Search for geo-engeneering and atmospheric modification. The apparent issue is that these "secret" geo engeneering projects are un coordinated between governments.
Re "City of London" worth Looking into. Again reputable links are available. It is a quasi state NOT under the governance of the ellected UK parliment. Similar to Rome. This puts it in an interesting and powerful position. No arrests have been made of bankers based in the city over recent financial debacles due to this.
It has its own un elected courts and officials selected from its banking institutions.
Corrupt hardly begins to cover it!

[Tangled-Universe]

What people refer to with City of London as biggest enemy of the USA has to do with something else.

It's a theory by the people who talk about the illuminati. Something I refuse to believe as an active organized entity.
However, the people who they refer to as illuminati are definitely interesting.
These are families, mostly, like Morgan (JP Morgan Bank), Rothschild (Bank), Rockefeller, Windsor etc.
What people refer to with City of London as biggest enemy of the USA is family Windsor vs Rockefeller etc.
The British/European illuminati competing for ultimate power with its USA equivalents.

I find that too far fetched at this moment, but frankly nothing would surprise me.
The Libor-rate fraud was of epic unbelievable proportions and is totally silenced by the media.
It was something I didn't dare to think about a couple of years ago.

What I think is not too far fetched is that these families with all the banks they own, because let's not forget that these crisis-causing banks are all privately owned by these families, are pulling strings behind the curtains.

[TheBadger]

On the banking stuff, Im a pretty big fan of what Iceland did. I think its hilarious! What I find most interesting about it is that, despite being very relevant to current topics in the US, there was next to zero discussion of it in the news. Which is really interesting being that cable news and corporate news call them selves "entertainment". And as I said, what Iceland did to the UK and Dutch banks was hilarious.
The only problem with it is the amounts of dollars (or whatever currencies) were to small. Only 5 billion US. That chicken feed. THe US spends that on toilet paper just for the military.
So its hard to determine from such a small amount what damage actions like Iceland took would do if the people of the US did something similar... We need a larger laboratory to try it out... try 3 trillion and see what happens. Then I think the results will not be so funny.

On the secret society stuff. I tend to think this is all real. Because in the end what are we really talking about, except a collection of rich people who influence current events (directly or indirectly) meeting in secret, and with entirely to much pride. I think it is nothing special.
Bringing down PRISIM, and doing justice for that kid, would take down half of the current establishment. And then (and this is the had part), we fill the power vacuum back up with honest, decent people. I know its far fetched (The honest and decent people part). But it sounds a lot better than taking my rifle and joining a revolt.

On what Im saying about taking down PRISIM and the rest. I mean putting everyone who is a part of it, and who also swore to uphold the constitution, in prison. The murders can win some of them a ride on the electric chair... The congress too.

[TheBadger]

So Obama just spoke inn Germany.

Can one of you guys in Germany tell me what the feeling there was? I heard in the news that his reception was nothing like the first time he was there. But that not really telling me much.
What was the perception, really?

[FrankB]

So Obama just spoke inn Germany.

Can one of you guys in Germany tell me what the feeling there was? I heard in the news that his reception was nothing like the first time he was there. But that not really telling me much.
What was the perception, really?

I wasn't paying attention, I was just too busy with work yesterday. I think there were mixed feelings from what I've heard. Some love Obama, others have demonstrated against PRISM, others have been calling him a liar, including journalists in commentaries in newspapers this morning.

[Walli]

well, when Obama was in germany the first time, the expectations have been very high, people hoped he would change a lot (when it comes to different wars, guantanamo and more).

Until now most of his visions still are just visions and in some cases "it" got even worse (drone attacks, prism), so now people simply have not been that ecstatic anymore.

[efflux]

Here's an example of the sort of nutjobs we have. Ray Kurzweil, director of engineering at Google:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2344398/Google-futurist-claims-uploading-entire-MINDS-computers-2045-bodies-replaced-machines-90-years.html

How much resources will be sapped by this kind of thing? All for the Oligarchical elites of course not for everyone else, who they want to just kill off. A computer can never replace a human.

Yesterday Bernanke  the new "god" of the US spoke. "Hinted" that he might wind down QE (if the economy started recovering) and the markets all respond. So the US is now a totally centrally planned economy where the fed controls everything otherwise why would the markets go up and down on everything the fed does or even hints at? Wait for the new "free" trade deal that Obama is heading for with the EU to further destroy the US. That's Obama's job of course.

It all ties in with the same thing. Central planning by a bunch of total psychopaths who believe they can engineer everything including engineering everyone else they don't need out of the equation. When will people wake up to this and stop consenting to these people running the show?

[TheBadger]

Thanks guys. I was just curious what the feeling was.
I was rather surprised that he and Merkel had to be in that blast proof glass box. The only times I have seen those is at international airports, where there are Israeli Air terminals.

I have to say, that he needed to be behind that glass, even in front of such a small audience was rather telling.

@efflux
It does give new meaning to the term, "balls of steel".

[AP]

At the end of day, i wish we could live in this kind of world.

http://youtu.be/xMoPBDz5ycA

I know, it's unrealistic but at least a Minarchy is a start. I see many here are starting to wake up and that is great. To see the corruption behind centralized planning and internal abuse before our eyes. Thankfully it will not last, question is what to do to survive the fall.

[TheBadger]

They charged the leaker with espionage today. He was not charged with treason.
That is fair, he did break his oath. But the question is, does his oath to the constitution override his oath to keep the secrecy act.
It is conceivable that he may be worthy of a pardon or commuted sentence. So long as he is not giving details to other governments. If he continues only to leak the programs that violate the constitution, and not the details of how they work or any technology (other than the existence), he may be able to return home one day.

I truly hope he is what he says, and not what he is being called.

I maintain that if the people in the US government (or any government) are not smart enough to protect both life and liberty. Than they are not smart enough to be in the government at all.

We were told that Obama is always the smartest man in the room, no mater what room or who may be there with him. Clearly, we were lied too.