The New apple desktop!

Started by TheBadger, June 10, 2013, 03:44:01 PM

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TheBadger

#30
QuoteWhat makes you think Mac Pros are made for 3D artists?

News reports.
From CNN http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/11/tech/innovation/mac-pro-computer (and there are others)
"The Mac Pro is aimed at a narrow market of professionals such as photographers, videographers, designers and animators."
All the reports, as well as apples website mention animation (not only, but I am sure 3D also.) So thats why I thought the new mac Pro was intended also for 3D artists. I did not really think that before the new mac. Previously, most macs I saw in the field were being used for video, photography, and graphic design. Its only now that I have been reading about the pro towers being "intended" for 3D artists... If thats the right way to put it.

QuoteUnlike the iPhone, where they gain a customer who will likely use their huge ecosystem of revenue generating services (iTunes, app store, etc.), a Mac Pro user probably won't recoup that value for them ever (if they're selling it below cost).

Final cut, Motion, compressor, the "app store", app development soft for iphone/pad apps (?), and some new soft on the way? maybe. Ok, you have a good argument. But Im holding on to hope as long as I can.

And I don't mean below cost, I meant below market value. But I see your point.

Quotein fact they have the highest margins in the industry on hardware
Thats my point though. As far as I remember microsoft did not (still does not?) manufacture the x-box in house, and they have the largest margins on software of anyone. Yet by offering the xbox at a loss and holding on they began to dominate sony.

At the end of the 90's into the 2000's apple dominated in the graphic design and video markets. (back when "silicon graphics" and lightwave were big dogs). Maybe they want back in? If they sell not at a loss, but under value. And the hardware is good enough maybe they will get more users? Again, IM just thinking hopefully. Because if people who love windows complain about windows, I cant imagine how much Im going to hate it.

The rest of what you said was logical and well put. I can't argue there.

I realize im going against the wind here. But isn't there some part of every PC user, that wishes windows didn't suck? And wouldn't an affordable mac that lived up to their hardware needs be a great solution?

Dream a little dream Oshyan. It's ok to like OS X. ;) ;) ;)
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Heh, I could go on all day back and forth with this stuff...

They didn't mention anything about 3D in their press release for the Mac Pro, and their own web page says nothing about it either. On the page about GPUs, they say only this "With all that power, you'll be able to do things like seamlessly edit full-resolution 4K video while simultaneously rendering effects in the background — and still have enough power to connect up to three high-resolution 4K displays.". "Animation" could just as easily mean working in After Effects or something else, e.g. video work. Anyway, changing the hardware is a step toward solving the 3D deficit on Macs, but it's just one part of the puzzle; Apple can come up with all the hardware they want, but without better drivers and support from the software publishers, it's still going to be limited compared to Windows (and even Linux to some degree these days).

And anyway, why do you feel like Apple would want to court that market so much? It's high dollar, high margin, granted, but also very small, and they don't have anything appropriate for the real high system purchase role in big VFX: render farms. They'll get a few 10s of 1000s of workstation purchases I guess, but that just can never compare to the billions in revenue they already make from their consumer products, and frankly I think they *ought* to be concerned about spreading themselves thin. I just don't think it's appealing enough of a market for them given the rest of their product line, especially given where they're going with their other products *and* their OS (e.g. incorporating more iOS-like stuff, consumerization, consumption-oriented devices rather than creation-oriented, the cutting down of features of Final Cut, etc.). I get your thinking is, well, aspirational, but I don't think it's very realistic. ;-)

I actually hate OS X, it doesn't work like I think it should or expect it to. I won't say Windows is a perfect dream, but I do like it, it makes sense to me (not talking about Windows 8 here, hehe), and I know how to work it. But I think it's fine if some people find OS X to be great, I will say there are definitely some parts of it I like and wish Windows had (better search for example, and now tagging in Mavericks).

Frankly I think the ease of use is about the same, but the *level of satisfaction* of Mac users tends to be higher, for whatever reason. That is true pretty much across the board with Apple products (although less so these days, I hear more people complaining about their stuff). In general, especially historically, Windows people are pretty much fine with their platform, in fact they usually don't care, sometimes frustrated, sometimes happy, but usually just "meh". Same with the *average* Android user (although there are many fanboys there too). This just contrasts starkly with many - if not most - Apple users who are often very passionate advocates, or at the least "in love with Apple products". I've seen many an Apple lover run into the same kinds of problems Windows users run into, they just see and react to it differently. So I think it is at least in part about attitude and not so much objective superiority or capability.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

#32
You win :'(  ;)

Ill buy a PC if the new mac is priced stupidly. Which everyone seems to think it will be.

By the way, Im not a fanboy (LOBO). Im just loyal to companies that make products that effect my life positively. Even when I think maybe I should not be.

At the time I started in on this stuff (early 2000's) I used after effects and other design soft on a mac. I got my first job with united television. It was a huge deal to me. The first computer I owned was a G4 that only recently died (I mean to say it lasted a good long time. not that I'm in mourning ;D). So its a little hard to except that I may have to give up on something that I feel helped to make my life like what I was working for.

In that respect, planetside is similar. In that this is where I got my first taste of 3D as a tool for my creative work. And indeed it turned out to be another big and meaningful step in my creative and professional life. So, Im just saying, go a little easier on this fanboy stuff (everyone ;D).
No one loves anything or anyone without reason.  ;)
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Oh I don't blame you. All I'm saying is it's simple: wait and see what the pricing is, because there really is not much truly unique about this performance-wise, so it will all depend on just how much they want for this slickly designed little thing. If performance is your biggest concern, you should probably get a PC in the end (unless they really surprise with the pricing), though I realize as a Mac user it's not nearly as simple as that (if only it were as easy to run OS X on random PC hardware as it is to run Windows on Mac hardware).

- Oshyan

TheBadger

True that.

found this though. What do you think? Marketing or real information?..  Albeit not very much.
http://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/a-pixar-artist-on-testing-apples-new-mac-pro-w-out-seeing-it
It has been eaten.

Oshyan

Yeah, I heard about that demo. Mari users seem genuinely impressed by it (on e.g. CGTalk). Remains to be seen with real benchmarks, but I really don't doubt it'll be a nice performing machine. The only open question is what the price will be and then what equivalent standard PC hardware you could get for the same price. It's even possible there will be no single-box equivalent, yet perhaps (as has been the case in the past) you could get 2 whole systems for the price of one of these, with nearly double the performance (but, yes, split between two computers). For anyone rendering animations, the 2 box setup would be preferable by far, or even with the idea of being able to keep your working machine free for scene development, while rendering tests on a second machine. That's part of the benefit of a dual CPU system as well, though somewhat less so. I'm not suggesting any of this is a legitimate option to consider for many people - not everyone has the space, for one thing, nor the savvy with how to work efficiently on multiple systems at once. Basically I'm just saying: it's still all about price and what you can get for your money. So until we have a price announcement, speculation is for me largely irrelevant.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

Thanks guys. Please keep an eye out on this stuff. Im sure when it comes time, Ill want to pick at your brain goo again.
It has been eaten.

efflux

There's a bunch of reasons why certain systems suit certain things. I have a mini for audio. It's quiet, totally reliable and I can use Logic which I really like. I had to abandon Linux for audio due to poor software and the fact that the Linux community simply can not agree on architectures i.e. audio bus systems. That's sad because Linux totally outperforms both OSX and Windows in terms of reliability and speed in audio throughput.

On OSX, I hated using TG2 because the OSX desktop tends to be a bit sluggish and with apps that require masses of mouse clicking and general UIing about (like TG2) I found it totally got in my way compared to Windows version. It's the same kind of thing when using painting apps where you don't want system hogging desktops.

However, for general daily use, I think it's hard to beat a Macbook or other cheaper Mac.

Then we get to high powered graphcs cards. Mac's were a total fail in this department because it was way more expensive. I'm really happy with Linux at the moment for this angle. Blender for example is able to fully utilise both my CPU anf GPU for rendering and desktop is nice and slim without bloat so on Linux you really benefit from a fast graphics card for several apps and the desktop doesn't hog it. Who knows what kind of costs are going to be involved in the new Mac if you want super powered graphics card. All the hype will be for the fastest model with fastest CPUs and graphics cards. The top end machine will be a fortune.

Windows I don't use much. I used to hate it and that was one reason to use Linux but Windows 7 is much better than previous versions. I don't particularly like a lot of features on Windows compared to Linux but it seems to work much better since version 7.