Simple shape

[TheBadger]

Hi

This is another question on a topic I have been posting about.
This is the last question on this subject from me, and then Ill shut up about it.

I have some files that Ulco and Kadri created for me to play with. And let me just say HOLLY CRAP! They are interesting! And actually I can do some pretty cool things with them. They are two very different takes at thinking on the same subject. Which in its self is really fun to see. And in both cases I wish I thought of it my self

Still I would like to ask about the Simple Shape Shader. It really vexes me! (I like that word )

I cant for the life of me understand why there is no way whats so ever to move the Simple shape shader on its axis. Nothing can be connected to it that will add the control not even the planet from which it originates... Which I find to be the strangest part.

If the center of a simple shape is the planet and the simple shape node(s) are directly attached to the planet node, why when the plant is moved on its axis does the simple shape stay put? Because if the simple shape is affecting the planets terrain, and then the planet is moved does the terrain then stay put? Its very confusing!

And hypothetically, if it could be possible to move the Simple shape on its axis, would that control be added to the simple shape, or the planet the simple shape node is attached to?

VEXES ME! 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t2pWUWE1Y8

[Dune]

I guess the SSS is just a horizontal XZ based thing, I've tried to get it rotated to no avail, but I guess PS can do that in future (hint hint). Instead of an SSS you could try a white square/circle (have to make one, how hard can it be in PS), and project that vertically.

[Kadri]

I think we are thinking more like an object about the SSS shader.
It is more a shape that is affecting the planet it is attached to basically.
Changing the axis would be the same as warping-transforming the shape basically.
And they could probably add something like that but if you want to change the shape of the ground it is attached to you can make all what you want anyway.
So we should not see it is an object.
At least that is how i think about that node .

Try it on the equator and you will see what i mean.

[dandelO]

I'm pretty sure I rotated a Simple Shape Shader with a Transform Shader. Use 'position in texture' in the Shape. There's a thread here somewhere called 'Eye Test', I did it there to mask the iris/pupil of the eyeball.

[Kadri]

We need you , come back Martin

[j meyer]

I agree with Martin,I also think I've rotated simple shape shaders with
a transform shader before.

As for the "if the center of the simple shape is the planet" thing:the planet
is an object,too,and is within a coordinate system like anything else.So,if
you move the planet,it moves through the coordinate system,which means
the planets position changes.And that's why you have to move/transform
simple shapes and textures along with it.
That's how I see it at least.

[Kadri]

http://planetside.co.uk/wiki/index.php?title=Simple_Shape_Shader

"Rotation: This param sets the rotation of the shape around its centre. You can only rotate the array around the Y (upright) axis. "

I am not sure if we understand us here.
You don't have to rotate the axis of the shader actually.
By changing where it is on the planet you already get different effects like it is rotated.
Hard to say what i mean other then what i already wrote.

[TheBadger]

@ Kadri and Ulco

May I post the files you guys gave me. I think that they are clever and would be interesting to people. (or you guys post them). I just think that its so interesting they are both such different and viable solutions to the same problem. Maybe more people looking at them would create more ways of thinking on this?

@ DandelO
I did indeed try a Transform Shader in concert with the simple shape node. But not like you just described. Basically I hooked it in and swore at it. Ill try again now that someone has said it can work. I did not when I tried it, "Use 'position in texture' in the Shape". Ill take a better look at it.

[Oshyan]

I believe Kadri and j meyer are correct, do not think of it as an object and remember that objects can be moved through world space, the textures stay where they are unless you move (translate) them too. Some shaders/objects have the option to translate shaders with them, but this is just a convenience and won't necessarily be added in every situation where it might be an issue.

- Oshyan

[Kadri]

No problem Michael but there is nothing clever and new about what i made.
It is only a basic mask for the clouds .

[TheBadger]

You don't have to rotate the axis of the shader actually.
By changing where it is on the planet you already get different effects like it is rotated

the textures stay where they are unless you move (translate) them too. Some shaders/objects have the option to translate shaders with them, but this is just a convenience and won't necessarily be added in every situation where it might be an issue.

which means
the planets position changes.And that's why you have to move/transform
simple shapes and textures along with it.

AHHHH! You guys mean that my only problem is I did not understand/remember to tell the simple shape that the planet has moved, and thats the only reason i could not move the simple shape. Or to put it more directly, if I rotate the planet, I must tell the simple shape that the planet has moved, and thus I gain the ability to rotate the simple shape, by the planet's axis? Yes?

If so, I feel like an idiot! Did I just get this through my thick scull?!

@Kadri, I think its pretty cool. its a pretty easy way to make a spiral galaxy. renders in a bout 5 seconds! I wanted to do a spiral galaxy animation for a while. I will wait to share your file until thats done since it will make more sense in a thread topic like that... that is unless what I wrote above is wrong. 

[TheBadger]

Ok, got it. Its more complex in terms of the number of nodes, not just simply adding a transform. But the control is there now. And the planet does not need to be turned. Although that sounds like another way that would work. But with Orge's tree. The one transform node can control the ring by its self.

DandelO, is the tree in Ogre's last post in image sharing the same as what you did for the eye? I saw you posted  a text, but it looked like it was on another part of the scene. Just curious.

Oh, man. Now when this if finished no one will think much of it because I made it so hard, it won't look like it was worth it! Well I still feel a sense of accomplishment! It was hard work getting you guys to tell me the answer No but really, I do feel like I just came out of the darkness or something. So thanks all.

May the force be with you.

[TheBadger]

Ok, so ticking the translate texture with planet is very effective too. 

Its funny, now that I see a working setup, there are actually lots of ways to manipulate everything and get little different effects. Different kinds of stretching and distortion, so on.

Good for me to know!

[TheBadger]

Guess my eyes have not fully adjusted to the light.

I am able to get tilt! And that is really great! See:
[attach=1]
I was even able to make the ring the same size I needed, simply by checking move texture with planet and growing the invisible planet by the slider.

But, no matter which way I try it, I cant get the cloud ring to center. It will only ever sit above the planet. See:
[attach=2]

Here is the node tree:
[attach=3]

I could post my TGD but I think that would make it harder to tell me what I have done wrong because of the changes I made. An un-messed with node tree is in the post by Ogre, P.5 2nd to last post by him:
http://www.planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,8989.60.html

What on earth have I done wrong now? And no, simply moving the Simple shape to the center like everything else is not the fix (at least its not so far) The problem seems to be in the cloud node? But my changes make the ring disappear, not move.

[Kadri]

Wrong planet attached (if you have more then one planet it can get messy) or options clicking etc?
Cloud-Atmosphere disconnected from the planet (there was (is ?) a bug) ?

Just guessing...