Possible to edit satellite data?

[TheBadger]

Hi,

So after seeing the demo by Oshyan today, I pretty much dropped everything else I should be doing to spend several hours looking at America from space.
I found several places that inspire some work in me. But I have some fundamental questions.

I would like to use some maps as is in the near future. But right now I want to try to incorporate maps into some ideas I have already been working on.  And I found a pretty close to perfect location to use. But I only like certain ares that Im seeing in this location.

1) Is it possible, and do people edit the sat data in photoshop? For example if you get a square of data, and you like whats on one side, can you mirror the half you like to the other side?
So that, say if the area is divided by a river and after editing, the river would be flanked by the same thing? And this could be blended effectively?

2) In general, What things can I think about doing to get going in a direction that will let me use real data in a editable way?

3) And very importantly, in what way would be a good way, to view any data in photoshop, that will preserve the real information in detail, so that I could perhaps paint on it? OR copy and flip, and so on?


Sure I realize this is another set of rather broad questions, but its a start.

Thanks.

[Oshyan]

The first and most important thing to know is that there are several different types of data. The most commonly used is heightfield "Digital Elevation Map" (DEM) data. This just gets you the terrain shape. If you want to edit heightfield data in the ways you're describing (i.e. mirroring, painting on it, etc.) you probably need a dedicated heightfield editor of some kind, for example Wilbur (free), Leveller, etc. Applications like Geocontrol and World Machine can also be helpful but are not in general designed to work with existing real-world data in ways that preserve essential detail and features.

The second most common type of data is probably orthoimagery, or satellite/aerial photos. This the new type of data I showed in the demo today that Terragen 3.1 can load natively. This just gets you a photographic overlay of the real-world environment onto your terrain. You use it *together* with heightfield data. In general it can be edited with a normal image editor, depending on what formats your image editor supports, however maintaining georeferencing might be difficult unless you can determine how to avoid messing with the meta data of the file when you edit it. Certain types of orthoimagery will also be in formats not commonly support. Dedicated GIS tools are sometimes required, and there's a whole industry of such programs, often quite expensive. But you can certainly get started by trying a basic image editor. I would not recommend trying this with heightfield data, though some people even have success there.

Other types of data include raster and vector outlines and shape files showing things like water coverage (lakes and rivers), vegetation maps, industry/transportation, etc.

- Oshyan

[TheBadger]

HI,

Perhaps I was thinking about it backwards then? MAybe what I need to do is get the data into Terragen as it is. And then save out heightfields from TG of the real data, and edit that in GEoControl and mudbox; something like this but from a different starting point but for a similar end: http://wiki.splashdamage.com/index.php/An_Advanced_Terrain_and_Megatexture

Oshyan I will look at editors when I wake up. I tried finding something once before, but that was a good long while ago now. I don't recall there being anything I could afford, or that worked on my OS.
Also, thanks for covering this in your video. ITs the only video I have seen on this topic, and it REALY helped me to understand how this goes. I have to view it again. But it helped to make sense of everything I read in the past and could not make work.

I also remember that seminar with Frank and Martin. THere was a 3rd speaker too, he brought up painting on these maps, but then never really demoed the process. IF you recall that? I wanted to try and mix all of what I brought up here, together if I could.

If I can get it into a heightfield, than I should be able to make a vector brush. And that should allow me to use the parts I like over the parts I don't... IN theory anyway.

Hey vector map thread, lets combine these topics 

[Oshyan]

A good heightfield editor should be able to import DEM data natively. As I mentioned Geocontrol isn't likely to give you the kind of basic paint and geometry operations you mentioned, but perhaps that isn't the entirety of your goal. Painting with sampled DEM data in e.g. Mudbox or Zbrush could be cool, but you would definitely need to convert the data in that case. Terragen is somewhat capable of some conversions, it can output EXRs for heightfield data, but there are better, dedicated converters around like Global Mapper. Of course your platform and price limitations are important factors that limit your choices (and Leveller as a heightfield editor is indeed Windows-only).

The first Terralive session had Ron Miller, space artist extraordinaire and a long-time user of Terragen, going through some of his portfolio and he did mention hand-painted maps. He's something of an expert, but I think you can credit his tremendous real-world and traditional painting experience and ability for at least some of that. I wouldn't necessarily recommend hand painting maps to most people, at least not as anything but a basis.

- Oshyan

[TheBadger]

Have to think on this a little and try a few steps (brain goo frothing).
When do you anticipate having that video up, Oshyan? I will need to review the steps you showed.

And as far as painting the maps goes, oh, no no. I have every intention of cheating like bill clinton at the playboy mansion on that part. Thats where vector brushes will come in. Im not trying to be Vermeer here Just was hoping to glean some more insight is all.