erosion

Started by TheBadger, November 20, 2014, 10:33:38 PM

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TheBadger

Hey again, yet another question.

I have TG and GC2. I have not messed with GC2 very much, but I know it does erosion well.

My question is, I see that the alpine shader does some cool looking erosion also. So should I use TG to do erosion or try to figure out GC2?

Or maybe to be more clear. Can I use the erosion in the alpine node on a non alpine terrain? And if so, what may be the plus side of that way of working?
Also,
If its is better to get erosion maps from GC2, what is the best way if I already have a terrain created in TG? I mean, can I take my terrain into GC2, or do I have to start fresh in CG2 and bring that terrain into TG?

Never really did much with erosion. But for Iceland I think erosion is something I really have to get in my head to end up with a real looking render.

Thanks for some direction on this topic. And I have followed discussion on erosion here. But I need a pragmatic way of making erosion, rather than just thinking about it in theory.
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AP

I would get into CG2 for erosion if I were you. It is far more diversive and the amount of variations are vast. The control is there also.

The alpine shader fakes erosion using what I think is a slightly iterated and stretched voronoi noise??? It is limited quite a bit, in particular the ways it handles sedimentation. Another limitation is true channel flows. Terragen does have the height field erode node which does more but you are limited to a smaller area due to the fact it works on a height field only basis and is not procedural. Also, you will still get a lot more choices and power out of CG2.

As far as using erosion in the alpine node on a non alpine terrain. I do not think I have ever scene that done for faking erosion along side any other noise like rigid perlin for example.

There is no reason why you could not make a terrain in terragen then import it into CG2. With that, you can use the many erosion filters. Saving erosion maps is easy enough. The rigid mountain filters inside CG2 are similar to terragen's alpine fractal if you want to start in CG2 from scratch.

Iceland has a lot of sedimentary erosion types so focus on lots of sediment dispersion.

TheBadger

Its hard. Have to work a flow out for my self. But thank you for some ideas.
DO you happen to have a link to threads that are still online for a TG2 GC2 workflow? As you know, its not supported anymore as CG2. So info is hard to find.
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TheBadger

It has been eaten.

AP


Oshyan

Terragen doesn't generate erosion maps at all at present, and they can be quite handy, so GC2 or World Machine are great for that alone. They also both have more sophisticated erosion tools than TG presently has. The Alpine Fractal is not an erosion *simulation* like CG2 and WM both do, it is an approximation based on noise functions and some creative behind-the-scenes ideas of Matt's. So the results have the advantage of being procedural and thus "infinite" detail, you can zoom in to a centimeter level, or zoom out to see a whole planet and maintain detail the whole way. Heightfields are finite in size and resolution and so don't have that advantage, but they're more "directable", and the operations you can perform on them to customize the look of the terrain are different and in some cases more specific, e.g. different types of real, simulative erosion.

You can get somewhat of the best of both worlds by applying procedural noise functions over heightfield terrains. The Fractal Detail part of Heightfield nodes does exactly this, in a specific way for a subtle result that hopefully complements the base terrain rather than changing its character. But you can add all manner of other displacement to it, subtle or otherwise, and get different effects while still getting some benefits of the source terrain created in another app. The main thing to keep in mind is that the more procedural displacement detail you add, the less accurate and relevant your erosion maps will be, so I'd advise smaller-scale features only.

By the way, one great use for erosion map output from WM and GC2 is for masking objects like trees and bushes (think, for example, of how plants tend to stick to waterways, a stream flowing down a mountain will often have an area of greenery just around it), and for masking displacement for example Fake Stones (think of talus slopes, etc.).

- Oshyan

Dune

You could start with an uneroded terrain, derive colors from that using the displacement to scalar, add erosion, derive another color map and subtract these form eachother for some sort of erosion map. I did that a year ago or so in some file, I vaguely remember.

Oshyan

Clever Dune! Indeed you could do that. Not sure how well it works but I'd be curious to hear more...

- Oshyan

TheBadger

Quote from: Dune on November 24, 2014, 04:49:50 AM
You could start with an uneroded terrain, derive colors from that using the displacement to scalar, add erosion, derive another color map and subtract these form eachother for some sort of erosion map. I did that a year ago or so in some file, I vaguely remember.

Just an image of the result would be cool.
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Dune

Yeah, but I might not be able to easily find it, so don't hold your breath. You can just try it, though  :P

TheBadger

There is nothing I could not try. But Why try to invent the wheel if its already been done?  :P :P
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TheBadger

OK, I see lots of things here and about to get from GC2 to one soft or another. But not much (anything really) to get from TG3 to GC2 in the first place.

I have a terrain I created with a DEM. I want to take the part that is visible to my camera (or the whole DEM if I must?) to GC to add some effects. But the only way I know to get a terrain out of TG is the micro exporter. But this does not seem right since that produces an object, I need a 2d file for this, don't I?

Also, from what I read, I will want to export a .ter file to get back to TG, is that still the right best way?

And one last thing. When I was looking through the GC2 UI, I saw no option to just import the DEM there. Did I miss it or there is no option in GC2 to import a DEM? I think that I only need a part of the file though so anyway, what to do?
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Oshyan

Right-click your Geog Heightfield node, Save File As, give it a name, make sure it has .ter at the end. Load into GC2. When you're done, save as .ter. Win!

GC2 is not big on GIS/DEM data import, I don't think.

- Oshyan

TheBadger

Oh thank heavens! That is nice and easy. Im really quite tired of super complex this or that, so what you wrote is beautiful music!
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