help needed with a flicker

Started by shadow92, November 22, 2014, 07:34:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

shadow92

Hello guys,
Im working on a simple animation in Terragen 3 and Im experiencing a flickering, especially on my tree population (XFrog plants for TG) and little bit in shadow areas.
I know there is a GI prepass which usually solves to problem, and in the past it worked for me, too, but looks like not in this one. I attached a zip file below, containing first few frames of animation I rendered so you can check out whats actually happening

My render settings:
Render Detail = 0.7
Antialiasing = 3
Raytrace Objects = yes
Defer Atmo/Cloud = no
Motion blur = no
depth of field = no
^I used those values almost everytime and no problem, even in darker scenes

GI settings:
GI cache detail = 3
GI sample quality = 3
Blend Mode = Interpolate for animation (5 files to blend)
GI surface detail = 0 (I read here on the forums that this one is better to be turned off during animation rendering because it increases a rendertime too much, and on my i5 laptop I need to optimize scenes as much as possible. I also tryed to render with this feature ON and flicker was still there)

ZIP FILE - http://uloz.to/xWnEG5X2/tropical-island-rar

Hope you guys can help me along with some explanation so I can avoid it in the future

thanks in advance
   - Adrian.

Oshyan

I don't know how to download your file, the site is in Czech (I think), and even once translated there is no Download, it says I have to sign up. I don't understand why anyone uses these kinds of file sharing sites anymore when there are completely free ones with no registration requirements or download limits, including https://mega.nz/ http://dropbox.com or Google Drive (requries sign-up to upload files, but not share links).

Anyway, just from looking at your settings something jumps out at me. Your antialiasing is *way* too low for an animation. I would recommend 6 at a minimum if there are any objects in the scene. You might get away with AA4 in a terrain-only scene. But it's almost certain that the flickering (noise?) is at least partly due to low AA.

By the way, GI Surface Details is *much* faster in Terragen 3. The advice you read was probably for Terragen 2. There is really not much reason not to use it in TG3, unless you're using DoF which it doesn't work well with.

- Oshyan

shadow92

Hi and thanks for your reply. I was meanwhile playing with the settings and I also came to conclusion its probably my low AA setting. Now I set it up to 7 and will see what happened. Cant afford set it to even higher value, rendertime is getting pretty high for animation. Also I resized tree textures significantly, I read it may help (if not at least I will save few seconds of rendertime)
About that file I shared, you dont need any registration, you just fill captcha, but anyway here you go - http://wikisend.com/download/401732/tropicalIsland.rar that one hopefully works

Oshyan


shadow92

dafuq :(
After losing twice it'll be hopefully third time lucky https://www.dropbox.com/s/2iktnqlx0k7q5nr/tropicalIsland.rar?dl=0 this one should be 12,55mb

Oshyan

Ah, this one works. :)

So yes, much of what you're seeing is related to low AA. In general we recommend "power of 2" values for AA, so 6 or 8. 7 can be OK to try, but I think you may need 8 to really get rid of the noise. If you're using Soft Shadows, I also noticed that some of the noise may be coming from that, so you'd need to increase the samples there, again increasing render time unfortunately. Finally, in the bottom left I also see a shadow changing, which is due to out-of-frame geometry simplification that improves render speed. Unless your animation will eventually show the terrain that is out of camera and casting that shadow (or maybe it's a cloud?), I would try to eliminate it (the terrain). If you do need to keep it, then you'll need to use Ray Detail Region Padding in the Renderer node to get rid of that popping shadow. Probably a detail of 0.5 will work, but you can try up to a value of 1. This too will increase render time.

The simple reality is that rendering an animation, *especially* one with water in it, may not be very practical on a single home computer. That's true for almost any 3D software though, at least for scenes of this scale and complexity (with water, thousands of 3D model instances, atmosphere, etc.). You might check out Pixel Plow for render farm services. They're quite affordable. Do a project on low priority and you could spend no more than $20 or so to get your entire animation rendered, and much faster than you could do yourself: http://www.pixelplow.net/

- Oshyan

shadow92

Yeah, so Im glad you confirmed my thoughts, thank you :) I´ve rendered now few frames with AA=7 and GI Surface Detail=on and flicker seems to be pretty low, respectively much lower than on my default settings. But now I have like 1:45hr per frame so Im wondering if I manage to render my 168f animation this year :D

In the future I will also consider an option of renderfarm, thanks for your recommendation. But there is few things I would like to know about it before - how does it work ? I mean, the process - lets say I make a scene with a lot of models, textures.. how do I send them my whole project with all the custom content andd how they will be able to set it up properly for me ? No experience with services like this, so Im wondering :)

Oshyan

We actually made a video that shows exactly how it works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tuI0OY_IbVo

For large scene files the compression and upload takes longer, but as long as you're not working on dialup it should be feasible. :D Obviously the faster your upload/download speed, the better. As far as making sure it will work on their end, you'd use the built-in Terragen "Export Gathered Project" function, which would identify any problematic or missing assets and then put everything in a single folder for upload to Pixel Plow. Once Terragen successfully exports a gathered project, you can be pretty certain it will work on Pixel Plow. Just make sure there's only 1 TGD file in the folder it exported to, then point the Pixel Plow agent to it and it will take care of gathering all assets, compressing them efficiently, and sending them to the farm. Your rendered frames will come back to your machine as they complete, automatically and continuously (as long as your machine is on; if you have to turn it off, they'll download the next time your machine connects to the Internet).

- Oshyan

shadow92

sounds great, thanks. In future I will consider this option :)

shadow92

Oh, one more question - I dont want to make a new thread for it. Looking at your video about the pixelplow you post, whats this? some kind of modifier or.. ? looks interesting



And that "rock bridge" where the arrow is pointing, is it an imported object? or its generated inside of TG?

Hetzen

The disc is a shrunk down Lake Object, and the bridge is made up of Deformable Cubes/Spheres (haven't checked tbh). All made in TG.

Oshyan

Hetzen is correct on both. :) We wanted to make the entire benchmark scene out of native Terragen 3 tools and functions so that it would be self-contained and small in file size. The arch is actually part of the Terragen 3 presets pack, available for free download: http://planetside.co.uk/products/download-tg3/file/tg3-presets?id=15

- Oshyan

shadow92

wow, thats cool :) I will take a look!