Weird Color Clipping

Started by WAS, December 20, 2014, 01:36:19 pm

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WAS

December 20, 2014, 01:36:19 pm Last Edit: December 20, 2014, 02:29:46 pm by WASasquatch
I am trying to make my own "Sand Dunes Shader" and have done pretty good so far. However, I am having weird anomalies with parts of the dunes turning a deeper color on the horizon or distance. If I move the camera, get close, the color changes back to normal... Any ideas? Update: Figured out this error at least. Compute Terrain does not function right through a Default Shader.

Also, how might I get rid of those weird lines on the dune upper left of the right red circle? xD I assume it's my train becoming a bit to sharp.



Updated Super Sand Shader v0.2 - Not sure if those slight peaks in the furthest distance have the color problem or not.

Oshyan

What was your specific network setup when you had Compute Terrain "working through a Default Shader"? Depending on what input you had it going into, it may not have been passing along all necessary data, I suppose. But going through the primary Input node, it should be fine.

Anyway, it's really hard to say what is causing this problem without looking at how you have setup your scene. If you want us to dig into it, you can either post your TGD here, or email it privately to support AT planetside.co.uk and we'll be happy to take a look. One thing I can say is I suspect the odd curved lines in your terrain in the upper-middle-right could be fixed by using Ridge and/or Gully Smoothing in the Tweak Noise tab of the Power Fractal (assuming that's what you're using).

- Oshyan

WAS

Quote from: Oshyan on December 20, 2014, 08:23:33 pm
What was your specific network setup when you had Compute Terrain "working through a Default Shader"? Depending on what input you had it going into, it may not have been passing along all necessary data, I suppose. But going through the primary Input node, it should be fine.

Anyway, it's really hard to say what is causing this problem without looking at how you have setup your scene. If you want us to dig into it, you can either post your TGD here, or email it privately to support AT planetside.co.uk and we'll be happy to take a look. One thing I can say is I suspect the odd curved lines in your terrain in the upper-middle-right could be fixed by using Ridge and/or Gully Smoothing in the Tweak Noise tab of the Power Fractal (assuming that's what you're using).

- Oshyan


The problem still seems to persist at weird angles and such and is part of the reflection I have found. Trying to make the surface reflective as real sand is, but it wants to be a 'sheen' of reflection rather then noise.

Oshyan

I hope you're not using Raytraced Reflections, first-off. Then, if you're going for a specular effect (which, by the way, I've only ever seen on wet sand, but I realize you have something in your mind that you reasonably wish to depict), you might want to try experimenting with the Specular Roughness setting, and possibly Highlight Intensity. With very low values for Specular Roughness, you will indeed get very small, defined "sparkles". I'm not certain that's what you want, but it may point you in the right direction.

- Oshyan

WAS

December 21, 2014, 11:39:47 pm #4 Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 12:32:39 am by WASasquatch
Quote from: Oshyan on December 21, 2014, 10:23:41 pm
I hope you're not using Raytraced Reflections, first-off. Then, if you're going for a specular effect (which, by the way, I've only ever seen on wet sand, but I realize you have something in your mind that you reasonably wish to depict), you might want to try experimenting with the Specular Roughness setting, and possibly Highlight Intensity. With very low values for Specular Roughness, you will indeed get very small, defined "sparkles". I'm not certain that's what you want, but it may point you in the right direction.

- Oshyan


Yeah I'm going for desert sunset where you get 'water' like refractions on the horizon. Also, in some pictures of highly fine sand, when low to the ground, you can get refrections of the sky through all the crystal. The main point of the specular was to add random crystal grains reflecting (like in snow) however I could not get the scale small enough, and space out enough (at random intervals; like stars?)

How do I go about turning of Raytraced Reflections? in the GI? I would assume it should be within the reflection settings in case something does not to reflect something in the scene (Ie, snow specular compared to solid ice on water)

Also, remember, when you are attempting something, like a photo-realistic image, EVERYTHING has specular unless it's absolute black (which has only recently been created in labs). It may not be noticeable to a untrained eye. All color is based on specularity. Ambient light doesn't exist in real life. What we call ambient light is just refractions. Like light caught in the clouds and glowing on the surface, just as the sun would (stills rays of light, not ambient light as defined), or light from around a corner refracting off a surface to bend the light rays around the corner by hitting the adjacent wall. Specular refractions from the surface cause that, or it'd be absorbed completely.

For example, the dune effect I'm creating. San at dust is like a ocean



Without specular, you get flat light, which is not realistic in the least. Same for any object that would be in the scene. Unfortunately, render times and adjusting specular per item.

Oshyan

Technically yes, "everything" (or most things) are specular to some degree. But in rendering you always want to make conscious decisions about what will actually contribute noticeably to the scene. Going the "everything absolutely realistic" route is sometimes possible, but seldom advisable as you almost always end up with render times longer than they need to be.

Anyway, Ray Traced Reflections is an option in the Reflective Shader. It's at the bottom of the Main settings tab. Once disabled, it should speed up rendering quite a lot, and you'll still get specular.

- Oshyan

WAS

Quote from: Oshyan on December 22, 2014, 12:36:25 am
Technically yes, "everything" (or most things) are specular to some degree. But in rendering you always want to make conscious decisions about what will actually contribute noticeably to the scene. Going the "everything absolutely realistic" route is sometimes possible, but seldom advisable as you almost always end up with render times longer than they need to be.

Anyway, Ray Traced Reflections is an option in the Reflective Shader. It's at the bottom of the Main settings tab. Once disabled, it should speed up rendering quite a lot, and you'll still get specular.

- Oshyan


What if you are using a Default Shader for multiple effects?

Oshyan

The Default Shader has an input for Reflectivity Function, which allows you to get more control over the reflectivity. It has a number of other inputs such as Displacement, Translucency, etc. for the same reason. So just use a separate Reflective Shader and feed it into that input on your Default Shader.

- Oshyan

WAS

Quote from: Oshyan on December 22, 2014, 01:43:14 am
The Default Shader has an input for Reflectivity Function, which allows you to get more control over the reflectivity. It has a number of other inputs such as Displacement, Translucency, etc. for the same reason. So just use a separate Reflective Shader and feed it into that input on your Default Shader.

- Oshyan


Oh sweet, thanks for the information Oshyan!

bobbystahr

This isn't directed to anyone in particular but why on earth don't people just open stuff up and try it before they ask questions. In the past short while I've seen questions asked that I didn't know the answer to so I opened up whatever was asked about and often it was self explanatory and I had no need to follow the thread; but if it confused me I either just followed/lurked till I understood, or then, if it was a deeper confusion I'd pose a query. Was I like that at the start...so long now I forget.
something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist

WAS

December 22, 2014, 12:55:46 pm #10 Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:06:31 pm by WASasquatch
Quote from: bobbystahr on December 22, 2014, 12:41:35 pm
This isn't directed to anyone in particular but why on earth don't people just open stuff up and try it before they ask questions. In the past short while I've seen questions asked that I didn't know the answer to so I opened up whatever was asked about and often it was self explanatory and I had no need to follow the thread; but if it confused me I either just followed/lurked till I understood, or then, if it was a deeper confusion I'd pose a query. Was I like that at the start...so long now I forget.


Probably not needed to be posted, at all.

The whole point of a forum is its not a damn wiki, dude. We're not to look for past posts, we're here TOO post. Especially when it comes up mid-topic from someone else.

I've noticed the old users here are pretty much nothing but trolls if not helpful in some area, but usually just sighting links and not imputing any useful information, making yourselves look like assholes, no offense. Not to mention the search feature here does not use Regex and only matches EXACT words making searches bring up no topics more then 80% of the time. Most topics don't contain any information, but posts to other topics, which end up having broken links, or thousands of posts to read through, instead of re-answering the question so it can be found in multiple formats and IS easy to find for people that do search. Now that's how a forum is filled with relevant and helpful information. This forum is hard to search, let alone get through peoples discussions to find the info they need when someone links them. Boy, if you all ran a school. Lol It'd go bankrupt and probably undergo a class action lawsuit.

If you have a issue with it, I'd suggest spending your time on the Wiki and making a solid contribution to it's information like Planetside wants, probably because most users get some assaine responses from senior users which shut down more then half this forums population as looking through most topics self-evidently shows.

You literally cannot browse any topics without Planetside Forums senior members making themselves, and the community out to be assholes to new users. Especially when less then 10% of the worlds population knows how to function a forum when looking for information on Google (let alone know how to function google)

You need to understand every forum is different, every website is different, and most the time people are confused when visiting a website, not automatically familiar. Being a web developer for over 14+ years I am very avid in user relations, and can spot a bad, and dying community from miles away. This community is only alive by it's senior members, who almost religiously make it a point to make new users uncomfortable.

Kadri

December 22, 2014, 01:06:57 pm #11 Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:10:38 pm by Kadri
Quote from: WASasquatch on December 22, 2014, 12:55:46 pm
Quote from: bobbystahr on December 22, 2014, 12:41:35 pm
This isn't directed to anyone in particular but why on earth don't people just open stuff up and try it before they ask questions. In the past short while I've seen questions asked that I didn't know the answer to so I opened up whatever was asked about and often it was self explanatory and I had no need to follow the thread; but if it confused me I either just followed/lurked till I understood, or then, if it was a deeper confusion I'd pose a query. Was I like that at the start...so long now I forget.


Probably not needed to be posted, at all.

The whole point of a forum is its not a damn wiki, dude. We're not to look for past posts, we're here TOO post. Especially when it comes up mid-topic from someone else.

I've noticed the old users here are pretty much nothing but trolls if not helpful in some area, but usually just sighting links and not imputing any useful information, making yourselves look like assholes, no offense. Not to mention the search feature here does not use Regex and only matches EXACT words making searches bring up no topics more then 80% of the time. Most topics don't contain any information, but posts to other topics, which end up having broken links, or thousands of posts to read through, instead of re-answering the question so it can be found in multiple formats and IS easy to find for people that do search. Now that's how a forum is filled with relevant and helpful information. This forum is hard to search, let alone get through peoples discussions to find the info they need when someone links them. Boy, if you all ran a school. Lol It'd go bankrupt and probably undergo a class action lawsuit.

If you have a issue with it, I'd suggest spending your time on the Wiki and making a solid contribution to it's information like Planetside wants, probably because most users get some assaine responses from senior users which shut down more then half this forums population as looking through most topics self-evidently shows.

You literally cannot browse any topics without Planetside Forums senior members making themselves, and the community out to be assholes to new users. Especially when less then 10% of the worlds population knows how to function a forum when looking for information on Google (let alone know how to function google)

You need to understand every forum is different, every website is different, and most the time people are confused when visiting a website, not automatically familiar. Being a web developer for over 14+ years I am very avid in user relations, and can spot a bad, and dying community from miles away. This community is only alive by it's senior members, who almost religiously make it a point to make new users uncomfortable.


WOW!

WAS

December 22, 2014, 01:25:05 pm #12 Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:28:22 pm by WASasquatch
Quote from: Kadri on December 22, 2014, 01:06:57 pm
WOW!


Seriously. The whole point of the Wiki is common issues that need to be gone over. So if someone is asking something answered all the time, it is your responsibility to post a Wiki entry on it so it's found through Google's highly comprehensive search engine before they ever get here. Otherwise you have no right to bitch about people not finding what they're looking for. So rude. You can't help but expect the same treatment back, especially when the senior users perpetuate the problem with Topic Loops pointing to topic after topic, where information is sporatic at best throughout said linked topics. Instead of bringing the information to one place, or rephrasing the answer and question so it's better found next time and not topics linking to other topics becoming the things found in searches as well. Lol

How would I have known to plug a "Reflective Surface" into what I already thought was a reflective surface? It actually is not a searchable question. Just like color clipping where you have no idea what is causing it. Both questions I searched for, both come up with nothing. The wiki doesn't explain you can get more control with a Reflective Surface as a function on a Default Shader.

Hmmm... Go figure.

Kadri

Quote from: WASasquatch on December 22, 2014, 01:25:05 pm
Quote from: Kadri on December 22, 2014, 01:06:57 pm
WOW!


Seriously. The whole point of the Wiki is common issues that need to be gone over. So if someone is asking something answered all the time, it is your responsibility to post a Wiki entry on it so it's found through Google highly comprehensive search engine before they ever get here. Otherwise you have no right to bitch about people not finding what they're looking for. So rude. You can't help but expect the same treatment back, especially when the senior users perpetuate the problem with Topic Loops pointing to topic after topic, where information is sporatic at best throughout said linked topics. Instead of bringing the information to one place, or rephrasing the answer and question so it's better found next time and not topics linking to other topics becoming the things found in searches as well. Lol

How would I have known to plug a "Reflective Surface" into what I already thought was a reflective surface? It actually is not a searchable question. Just like color clipping where you have no idea what is causing it. Both questions I searched for, both come up with nothing. The wiki doesn't explain you can get more control with a Reflective Surface as a function on a Default Shader.

Hmmm... Go figure.


It is not about the Wiki. There is of course room for improvement but my problem is your your attitude.
Other then some very small posts probably, everyone tries to help each other here around in this or that way.
Using words like "assholes" and then anticipating  "no offense" ?
You might be good at art maybe but i wouldn't want to work with you at all.
This is the kind of attitude i am more and more alienated from forums.

WAS

December 22, 2014, 01:40:23 pm #14 Last Edit: December 22, 2014, 01:47:07 pm by WASasquatch
Quote from: Kadri on December 22, 2014, 01:35:11 pm
Quote from: WASasquatch on December 22, 2014, 01:25:05 pm
Quote from: Kadri on December 22, 2014, 01:06:57 pm
WOW!


Seriously. The whole point of the Wiki is common issues that need to be gone over. So if someone is asking something answered all the time, it is your responsibility to post a Wiki entry on it so it's found through Google highly comprehensive search engine before they ever get here. Otherwise you have no right to bitch about people not finding what they're looking for. So rude. You can't help but expect the same treatment back, especially when the senior users perpetuate the problem with Topic Loops pointing to topic after topic, where information is sporatic at best throughout said linked topics. Instead of bringing the information to one place, or rephrasing the answer and question so it's better found next time and not topics linking to other topics becoming the things found in searches as well. Lol

How would I have known to plug a "Reflective Surface" into what I already thought was a reflective surface? It actually is not a searchable question. Just like color clipping where you have no idea what is causing it. Both questions I searched for, both come up with nothing. The wiki doesn't explain you can get more control with a Reflective Surface as a function on a Default Shader.

Hmmm... Go figure.


It is not about the Wiki. There is of course room for improvement but my problem is your your attitude.
Other then some very small posts probably, everyone tries to help each other here around in this or that way.
Using words like "assholes" and then anticipating  "no offense" ?
You might be good at art maybe but i wouldn't want to work with you at all.
This is the kind of attitude i am more and more alienated from forums.


It's to be expected when your art is called "distracting" or, "self-promotion", or when people like to troll you for literally no reason. Especially when in this case, both things are not searchable on this board in any context I can think of, and when you don't know the problem its hard to refine said search to find what you are looking for.

For example I had no idea specular was causing the problem all together and was messing with my PFs and Compute Terrain and terrain order. I had no idea it was specular nor would any search bring that up that I came up with. "Color clipping" is not a common problem. Nor does the wiki about a default shader explain about reflective shaders adding control. Nor do I have an idea in my head of how to search for that when I was unaware to begin with...

All is highly rude and expecting a rude response. It could only expect a rude response. Go look through the forum. Look how new users literally disappear after senior users discourage their questions and aim to learn this software. You all literally kill dreams. Lol

I wouldn't want to work with anyone that would be excused from class for being insatiably rude to classmates with questions. "GO look in a book" would be your in class motto, I'm sure.