Doom4

Started by TheBadger, June 15, 2015, 11:12:18 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

TheBadger

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CQpxDFExwhU
:o
Crazy, man, just crazy.

I guess I should warn people out right, this is not for children. Probably not for anyone. But even so, its not unimpressive technically. And being that all the VR head sets are finalized for end of year release, I expect that Doom4 is now or will be available for VR play.

Whats your view?
It has been eaten.

N-drju

Funny that you posted that, because I'm just making my way through Doom 3 for the first time ever. :)

Doom 4... umm... what can I say... I think that Doom series is dead by now. ::) Doom 3 was hardly like the classic version that people liked so much and this? This is not even close to Doom! It all looks so different, the movement, the environment, even the monsters! I can't recognize even a single effing monster in here, except perhaps for the holo-hell knight and the revenant. (and why the hell does it fly? :o)

I'm not even going to comment on the amount of violence that, apparently, this new game is going to have. I think Romero got his brain damaged a looong time ago to just keep pumping this brutal shit out with no remorse apparently. I understand what Doom is all about. I understand where the monsters came from. Still, I think that Romero man just crossed the line this time... Don't get me wrong, I liked the "Brutal Doom" modification and all that red paint that was used there, but it was so over the top and grotesque that it actually made the gameplay funny. Kneeing pinky to death? Priceless! ;D

I think that Doom 4 will follow standard scenario which is - we all get hyped up, play the game, find it lousy in the end and launch Classic Doom to erase the experience. :P
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

TheBadger

The VR thing makes a difference though. Certainly the gore is one thing. But its something entirely different in VR. I have the rift DK. And I have to tell you without a doubt that things are scary as fuck in the rift that are not even slightly interesting on a normal screen.

I dont belive for a second that playing violent games or watching violent movies makes anyone violent. Because its not natural, compared to porn for example, where people are naturally inclined (Im just talking about the two main subjects of contemporary media arguments) . I don't feel like murdering people after playing grand theft because Im not a killer, is what I mean.

But in VR, for long periods of time, consumed by people the same way that they consume porn... LIke a monkey pushing a button to get a candy.
A reverse clockwork orange? The already unstable are screwed for sure.

On the other hand. Too much of anything can make anyone sick of that thing. And I gotta say that in the rift, I don't think most people could handle that for more than 30min at a time. It would be just too overwhelming. You have to try VR to really get it. But your heart rate, the terror center of your brain, they don't respond like in a movie, they respond as if its real. It does not feel good.

I originally thought that Horror would sell VR because its so effective. But after seeing that demo I think that it may turn people off altogether because it does work so well. IT really is too much.

But we'll see, eventually we'll all try it.
Bet though that games will get toned down for VR platforms Vs traditional. At some point there will be different versions of everything.... psychosis, heart attacks, nightmares in children, arrests for letting children have access to VR, war flashbacks from pretend wars... On and on. Lawyers will never get a day off.

All the VR demos I have tried warn that no one under 13 should play any VR at all. Which is interesting.
It has been eaten.

N-drju

Well, me neither. I don't think that violent games will make you evil. Unless of course you're John Stalvern and you be deamons... :D

But seriously I think that virtual reality will not save Doom4 if this game turns out to be crap. This will basically be the same game in whatever fashion you're going to play it. Sure, VR may give you nightmares in the long run but if the game turns out to be ridiculous, boring and exaggerated nothing will salvage it... I don't think that the game platform changes the way people evaluate the game alone.

I'm not an expert in the field of VR Badger, so sorry if I'm perhaps a bit off-topic. :) I just think that a good game that lives up to people expectations can be played on a bamboo stick as well and receive good feedback.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

archonforest

I want to try doom on VR for sure! I think D3 was great and one of the most evil game I ever played. I saved the game in every minute as I was never sure if I will survive the next minute  :D :D

I also agree on that a platform will not make a game successful. That should come from the game itself. Story and playability comes before graphics and effects. Like I played a game called Elite from a floppy disk on my Amiga 500. It was simple vector graphics but boy it was real fun there!
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

TheBadger

I would have agreed with you both 100% before I tried VR. Story WAS everything. It just does not mater now, truly. And Ill prove it to you... Well, prove it as long as you can except a few of my premises as correct ;)

For the sake of conversation lets say this is really happening to you right now...
Imagine your walking home from a party, or a meeting or whatever. Its Dark, real late, and no one is around but the jogger just ahead of you. Suddenly a figure in a mask comes out of the tree line along the path. The figure grabs hold of the jogger and stabs and slashes. Then another figure comes out of the tree line but this one heads at you in a full charge. you turn and run.

Are you thinking about any persons backstory here? Even your own? You should have just one thing on your mind and it should not even be as complex as a thought. Just Run.
What is your heart doing? Pumping adrenaline enough to kill a bear I would think. Complex thoughts in your mind moving at light speed.
And that fear.

Fear is not the only thing is it though? We have lots of words for it, like the Alaskans have words for snow. Dread, for example, as you hide behind a tree unsure of where the two figures are now.
It only seems like a story because its written. But none of these things would be explained in VR, they simply are. And once you have suspended disbelief, that's all she wrote.
Even lousy graphics and no story are completely immersive so long as a few foundational things are done right.

I demoed a game called crystal rift. http://www.crystalrift.com. No story really in the demo, just a few hints, and the world was completely off in terms of scale (size of spaces and things) Vs. realty. But I only made it 2-3 "jump scares" before I had to turn the scare part off in order to explore the demo and try to understand how it was made. It was really heart stopping, but really silly. I would not have felt any fear at all seeing it on a tv or computer screen, none. But in VR it is not the same. Its just not the same. IT is so much like reality, that your body completely agrees with what your eyes and ears tell it, what you know does not mater at all.

OF course I have not demoed Doom in VR, or normal either, so I cant say. But Im telling you if it is a good game, it will be better in VR . And if its a very scary game, it will be worse in VR. so long as it is ported properly, and follows the rules of VR.

Having said all that, better graphics makes it all the better in general, in VR, thats for sure.

But yeah, I still want story too, Im just saying that its not necessary to make a good game. Doom looks like it has a story, a crazy messed up story, but a story. And once you are in it it wont mater very much what that story is.

I want to demp it in VR on the public release of rift. But Im not too interested in playing it in the normal way. Either way I would not buy it... probably.
It has been eaten.

N-drju

#6
Well, you may have a point there. But you know what would make that slashed jogger idea a good game idea? If you first survived the assault by two dark figures and then carry on, trying to find out what the hell did just happen. A good solution would be to provide a story line that would unfold with each step you take. VR may help it if it is not too intense. You know, so that it is intense instead of being ridiculous...

This however, is not the case with Doom 3 which had a promising story at first but which dissolved later in the game, probably for the sake of hot-dogging and blowing things up. :-\ I doubt whether ID will improve anything in Doom 4... I don't wanna bring you down but I don't think that Doom series is a good material for a VR effort.

Doom 3 was fun for the first few levels, especially right after the demon invasion but later it just got lamer by the minute and linear too... I could draw a straight arrow of time with several points on it and call that drawing Doom 3. :D Now, I'm not saying that this game is just plain crappy. Some good points? I really liked all the creepy sound effects that were there! My favorites include "Sssssave me" whisper and devilish laughter near Dr.Betrugger's office, or the sounds of all that various machinery working in the Mars Station. Some of these are pretty intense! Oh and I just looooved the sound of the new plasma gun! :D

I think that the PDA element and all that information streaming in from various UAC employees could be intensified to create a sort of FPS and investigation sort of game that gradually leads you towards truth and solution of the whole game. But I guess ID just prefers to do loud noises, blow things (and people) up and destroy everything to smithereens... I don't think that I would feel much different playing Doom 3 on a virtual reality set than I do when I play that on PC... Maybe I got prejudiced towards the game so that it makes no impression on me. :-\ But I can point more games that could easily make their way into VR.
____________________

Oh, and one more thing. I wouldn't even call that emotion "fear" when it comes to Doom 3 (or 4 for that matter.) Seriously, if you play this for some time it turns into "mild annoyance". :(
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

TheBadger

I pretty much agree with you totally about doom3. I would hope that after all this time Bethesda will have made improvements on the franchise.

But also, I don't think judging by the OP video that, D4 is really supposed to be "scarry", more just gross and dark humor. But the video seemed only to focus on the way you interact with the enviro. So who knows.

Mostly just interested because its sorta a legacy game. Kinda a cultural icon thing. I hate starwars, but I have seen every episode a few times, I will go see the new movies a few time too.  You sorta have to. Don't you? :D
It has been eaten.

fleetwood

Never liked the feel of 1st person shooters much, prefer the 3rd person games. Most recently I've been playing Dark Souls II. It has a lot of flaws but is addictive.

The chainsaw sequence in the Doom 4 trailer was particularly unpleasant. I don't particularly see the value of gore.

I'm waiting to see what are the long term brain effects of simulated motion without actual accompanying motion of the body.
The reason I say this is that I believe the brain adapts to the almost constant virtual travel forward in these games. When you stop playing the game the brain doesn't instantly stop processing real world visual information as if it were game motion. The Result can be actual loss of balance or dizziness. It may be something most people can get used to, but I wonder if it can do any lasting damage to perception of motion and balance.


archonforest

Quote from: Allen1 on June 16, 2015, 03:54:50 PM
You know that is an interesting thought. See what the market of consumers have to say over the long term if it has any lasting negative effects at all. Time will tell.
Nope, nothing. Played a lot! All Doom all FEAR several times through and many more and still didn't killed anyone :D
If anyone has urge like that coz a game then that person is simple mentally week or on some kind of drugs
or just visiting a psych. So normal people will not go berserk coz a game. Nutcases who are kinda acting social can flip and do shit... but for that i cannot blame the game.

Actually Doom and FEAR had some effect on me and on my friend. We played Doom 2 for some long hours and my friend went for bathroom. 1 min later I decided to go to the kitchen and find my friend standing right outside of the bathroom looking into the dark from the corner exactly how he did in the game. LOL! I was like dude wtf??

And me when I walking in a staircase sometimes i looking up and turning my body how I usually do in the game... :D
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd

TheBadger

They will have to do all the studies over again for VR vs. traditional. We will have to wait to see what effect VR has on an undeveloped brain as it matures into an adult brain.

I really hope that the negatives that I have experienced are just to do with the low quality low frame rate early development. Because when it is working right, it is REALY REALLY REALLY FREAKING FUN!
It has been eaten.

Kadri


I remember the first time we played doom with my friend.
As he was playing , a demon was behind some kind of column our bodies leaned to the side when we were trying to escape and it was as we were in the game.
It was the first time we saw a real 3D(for it days) game play. After so many years playing 3D games everybody gets accustomed to it.
VR might be another step in that aspect for some years and maybe much stronger in that aspect.
Doom had no story and don't needed it because in those years all it showed was new.
Today it is harder of course. I am curious how it will play out.
A lame game might be very immersing in VR as Michael said.
I can't imagine an Alien game with VR for example no matter what story :)

N-drju

#12
Do VR out of this. :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MZwqMSCBF8

___________________________

Oh, and a little bit more seriously, here's a guy who talks about game cliches. I agree to some. Mostly the silent protagonist. WTF? :-\

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKwn24hboYw
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Kadri

Quote from: Allen1 on June 17, 2015, 04:28:47 AM
They did do Alien Isolation with the Oculus Rift.

No thanks :)
Seriously i want to see VR games but i doubt that i can handle some type of games with it.
With a monitor you have a distance at least.In VR you are in it.
I think i can understand what Michael is saying.

archonforest

An Alien game in VR? Holly cow that could be freaky like hell. I would still try it but not sure how long I can go along... ;D
Dell T5500 with Dual Hexa Xeon CPU 3Ghz, 32Gb ram, GTX 1080
Amiga 1200 8Mb ram, 8Gb ssd