Subdivision Level Question

[Urantia Jerry]

Very recently Dune gave a user named Clay some advise about going into the Render Node and changing the Subdivision Level from 0.25 to maybe 0.75.  This advise he also gave to me regarding one of my older projects.  I went into the Render node and looked, but could not find what he was talking about.  I went to the Forums, did searches, I went into the Node References, and then went back into the node itself - looking again - but could not find what Dune was talking about.  I am sorry for being - Thick - so to speak, or just not getting it, but could you - Dune - or someone else please help me find what he was talking about?  As for as Clay is concerned, Dune has helped myself and many others with problems they were having, and I not only appreciate the help he has given me, but that he would do so in the first place - Jerry

[fleetwood]

When you look at the render node in the network it should have a plus sign on it indicating it has more internal nodes. Either Click on the plus sign to see the contents or right click on the Render node and then pick the internal network option.

[Dune]

Sometimes it's just under another node. There should be 4 nodes inside (in pro at least).

[Kadri]

It is a little confusing actually. Not sure how it was before.
But when you search for that node you can't find it.

Just begin a render and cancel it. You don't have to wait for it to finish.
Now have a look in the internal network of the render node and all the inner nodes are there.

[Oshyan]

These nodes are often created "dynamically" as-needed, e.g. when the settings are changed (which can happen from the Check Animation button as an example). They are also often covering each other up in the internal network of the render node for some reason. This should be fixed.

- Oshyan

[Urantia Jerry]

I did finally find it, thank you guy's so much for helping me.

[reck]

I had the same question as Jerry as I also couldn't find the subdiv node either. This seems very confusing to me and not very intuitive at all. For instance when I start a new project these internal nodes don't seem to even exist at all. I had to do as Kadri suggested click render, cancel and then re-enter the internal network and suddenly they were there, is it supposed to work like this?

Oshyan mentioned that they may cover each other up in the internal network but I found that wasn't the case when they actually appeared, the confusing part for me is that they aren't there and then they are.

Is it possible to make these dynamic nodes a bit more visible? For instance how do you see\set the subdiv settings on a new project without starting to render?

Are there any other hidden\dynamic nodes in Terragen, it sounds like the subdiv node could be quite useful so i'm wondering if i'm missing anything else as well?

Finally I clicked the help button once i'd opened the render subdiv node but the help didn't return anything. Any eta on when the node help will be finished?

Thanks

[Oshyan]

The behavior of these "dynamically generated" nodes will be improved in a future update.

- Oshyan

[reck]

OK after a little more testing it looks like my confusion is down to a missing button in the render interface.

When I hit render and then cancel I get 4 new nodes appear in the render node internal network. 3 of these nodes can be accessed via the render interface without even entering the internal network bu there doesn't appear to be a button to access the subdiv settings unless i'm missing it.

Render bucket control -> accessed via the Bucked Controls button.
Render Pixel sampler -> accessed via the Edit Sampling button.
Render GI settings -> accessed via the GI Settings button.
Render subdiv settings -> Missing button?

I think adding a subdiv button to the render interface would be a lot more intuitive and wouldn't make this setting a game of hide and seek.

[reck]

Oshyan, posted the above before I read your message. Wouldn't the simple inclusion of a subdiv button on the render interface "fix" this?

[Oshyan]

The Subdiv Setting is intentionally excluded from the render node's normal interface because it is seldom needed and can dramatically increase render time, so having it more visible could easily cause confusion and frustration. It is an accessible setting in the internal network of the render node because it does sometimes need to be changed, but we want to avoid further complicating an already complex node like the render node unless a setting is really important and useful. In fact I think some existing settings, like subdiv cache size, should be removed, and perhaps then we could consider adding subdiv settings in on an Advanced tab.

I don't know if we will determine that having the subdiv settings more visible is a good thing in general, but I certainly agree that the behavior of these "dynamically generated" nodes is confusing at present.

- Oshyan

[Dune]

For close-ups of shallow water scenes, it's quite important to have this available. If on a more accessible tab, you can always add a warning about render time (like with cloud shadows from objects).

[reck]

After a bit of testing I can actually see that the subdiv setting does make a noticeable subtle difference to some of my test renders. For close up shots that include water I think it's something that I would tweak in the future now that I know of its existence.

Due to it's usefulness I don't really agree with your thoughts on it's exclusion from the interface to be honest. There are settings already listed in the render node that appear to be just as obscure that i've never had to change and will probably not need to in the future.

As for the slow down, yes it did slow down the render but not as much as when I turned on "receive shadows from surfaces", so there are already other settings in the UI that may have a far greater affect on speed than the subdiv setting, so I don't think this is a good enough reason either.

Maybe putting the subdiv button under the advanced tab would suffice with a warning on the potential speed decrease if you think it's warranted. This would make it consistent with the other internal nodes as well.

[Oshyan]

Thanks for the feedback. I agree that rethinking this and other settings in the Render node makes sense in the near future.

- Oshyan

[Matt]

I added this button to the UI a few days ago. I plan to include it in the next update.

Matt