My dream machine..

[HooDoo]

First let Me introduce myself

I'm a digital landscape artists, as stated on DevianArt categories.. I've tried so far few landscape modeling tools and have stoped to idea about 100% procedural modeling and in planetary scale. I'm pointing, that I don't wanna create static scenes with photoshoped textures just for one poster. I guess, my call is to create worlds  I'm familiar with Bryce, Vue, WorldMachine, some japanese LW plug-in, Terragen (TG) in early days and Mojoworld (MW).

So for current moment most powerfull procedural engine in this scale is MW.. let Me add before Your screams, that I've said: "engine". Its sad true fact, that user interface (UI) to manage this engine is far from todays needs and seems have no near future chances to get this state changed 

I've learned TG2 UI and it looks pretty fine and professional. Also I spend some time at this forum and have read a lot about TG users achievements and disappointments. If You still reading, I would like to describe what are my needs for landscape modeling over 7 years now.. and compose my dream machine from all those applications

First, I need fast instant preview. Its the same small window as in TG first version and in MW last versions. It helps a lot and its not depending of Your GPU speed and power. TG currently is missing this option.

Second, I need good preview of created terrain in 2d or 3d from above in whatever way it will be shown.
Current TG preview is very small and not adjustable for position (as far I get it). Anyway, I wasn't able to use it. Again, in other 3d applications (and partially in MW) we have the ability to look at preview of created texture. No such options in TG2..

Third, I need powerfull terrain shaping tools. And I'm not pointing to just elevation or erosion (or other) tools and filters (however, that is very welcome in TG2). For heightmaps there is now plenty of such standalone applications (ah, I'm missing good old Bryce Terrain Editor..)

No, I need procedural terrain shaping tools with good sense, what I'm shaping. Current TG2 math-head tricks with nodes is very un-intuitive and not efficient. I haven't seen TG2 procedural terrain with native elements except some from alpine fractal.. which is pretty slow. The current created Tg2 procedurall terrain is just a mess! Thats why many renders shows only advanced texturing and materials of TG2, while the global scale in procedures is missing. And the truth is, this is the main reason why this post could be My last in this Forum (until TG2 will be able to give Me these tools).

To made my idea clear, let Me show example, how this works in MW.



As You can see from MW node graph, the output from fractal is transmited thru so called curve editor, which controls and converts input/output values. And You can see in final render window, that fractal terrain shape (canyon walls) now is formated as curve, which I draw. I'm not saying, that TG2 should have node exactly like this, but the control like this (shaping of terrain) should be present. Then even with TG2 fractal basis users should be able to made natural looking terrains. This trick was known for MW users since very begining! And good looking terrain could be made from even simple noises.

And I/O Curve can be used in many other ways of course.

All remain tools like navigation, object control, lighting etc things are secondary in my list...

If You wanna heard about my TG2 UI experience:
I found annoying the "set camera" thing even after week of work with...
I found annoying to press the "Alt" key while I'm navigate in 3d preview. C'mon, can I just click in 3d window and do all the things without "Alt" key pressed?

Seems thats all for the moment These 3 things above I need for work with landscape and currently I see no ways to work with TG2 at current state. Displacement miracles, GI and populations alone is not enough to create landscape/world as I want to do... I hope to heard some good news soon

[cyphyr]

Hi there and welcome to our little corner of the virtual world.
Firstly remember that this is a Technology Preview, not a finished app in any way.
Its good to have a clear idea of ones needs but its also good to be able to use the tools available to one in a creative way. People talk about professional applications being able to fulfill all their graphic requirements but this is simply not true or even (I think) possible. In a "professional" production environment the emphasis is on being able to take information from one program into another and jump back and forth in order to achieve your goal. If you like the Bryce terrain editor then use it (couldn't get my head around it my self), and import your terrain of the displacement map to TG. Three of the best terrain editors at the moment are Geo Control, World Machine and Leaver, all of which can export to TG. Every program has its own way of working (MS software has tended to standardize their apps and this has indeed spread to others) but its not to hard to learn the new way of working with TG2. I think the reason for holding down Alt. is that otherwise you may end up clicking on imported objects and moving them instead. I agree that the small overhead preview is limited but at the moment it should only really be used as an indication of the "style" of your terrain/texture. I believe (I may be wrong) that in the future this is intended to be changed to a more standard over the camera view.
Good luck wit your TG'ing and don't give up, I'm getting results now that I would have found next to impossible with other programs. They may not be studio quality but thats down to my limitation, not the softwares.
Richard

[HooDoo]

cyphyr

I wrote about gaining control over procedural terrain and already mentioned, that there is plenty of tools (you named) for heightmap generation. No doubt, that with the materials TG2 now is perfect for heightmap texturing, but I'm sorta fan of procedural modeling TG2 is great, but just not matching my needs.

With professional I mean that UI could be used to made products for money as everyday CG tool. Lets say MW at current state is more like toy and missing many features, that is required for today's CG workflow.

I'm not giving up, just telling You, that I'm not interested in static heightmap texturing or photoshop-textured local scenes. However I believe these are the goals of professional needs..

But probably the new TG2 is just new materials and kinda masking of horizont line with sorta terrain  

I really wanna know other TG2 users opinion about the future and missing features of this application. I also hope, that the workflow will be easier (and faster hint hint) in final release.