TG2 Final Release Date

Started by dhavalmistry, October 24, 2007, 04:37:15 PM

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zionner

Thanks for the update Oshyan,

In the old FAQ I read, You said that TG 2's speed at release would be close to TG 0.9,

Now, I aint expecting that at all! (even though it would be nice) But How is the renderer looking right now?

Oshyan

I didn't write the FAQ, but I think there may be a key part of that entry you're missing:
Quote...it will only be slightly slower than v0.9 for equivalent types of images."

The bit I have bolded there is important - TG 0.9 couldn't do full planets and planetary-scale atmosphere, it couldn't do displacement, it couldn't do volumetric clouds, populations, etc, etc. So as long as you're not using any of that, render times - even now - shouldn't be too bad in comparison to TG 0.9. That will be especially so after the optimizations that are in progress now. But of course as soon as you add any of those more advanced features, render time is going to go up. ;D

- Oshyan

zionner

Ah, Yeah I missed that bit :D

Was getting hopefull there ;)

So, In all. What kind of improvements will we see in the renderer compared to now and release (at best guess)

Also! (I always wanted to know this) I'm still new to this sorta rendering software...so I was wondering why dose the renderer start of by plotting lots of dots on the screen?, Never quite understood that.

Thanks :P
Zionner

reck

I'm not an expert at all but I believe the dots are GI calculations. The higher the GI settings the more dots and the longer the pass takes. If you turn GI off you shouldn't get any dots.

Maybe this is a good place to ask a question regarding rendering. Whenever i've used any 3d package that "renders" it works in a similair way to TG2, in that it will renders a small area in maximum details (taking into account you settings) and then move onto the next area, renders that etc. I've read in the last few months about some 3d software that renders the whole scene at once in  a very low quality, then in the next pass the quality improves slightly, and it keeps going like this until you decide the quality is good enough and you stop the render yourself. What's this called, is this what an unbiased render is, if not what is an unbiased render? Also although i've never used software that renders like this it sounds like a better way of working then rendering small areas at a time in maximum quality, would TG2 benefit from this sort of render?

Dark Fire

Quote from: Oshyan on October 25, 2007, 01:20:07 PM
Rest assured that your pre-purchases entitles you to a free update to the final release of that product - e.g. if you already purchased Deep, you get the final release of Deep free, or if you purchased Deep + Animation you get the final release of that as well.
I don't think this has been asked yet, so I'll ask it: will there be a free version of the final release too? The FAQ says:
"Having a version of TG that is free for personal non-commercial use has been very successful for us, and we would like to continue that with TG2."
While that expresses the intentions of Planetside, I still worry because T2TP is very good - I don't know any product of similar quality that has such a functional free version.

Also, what's happening to TG0.9? I know this is a bit off-topic, but TG2 will really signal the end for TG0.9. I remember reading somewhere about the possibility of a final release. I'm sure I can find some uses for TG0.9 - it would be quite handy for educational purposes, as it is very easy to use.

Oshyan

Lots to answer here, I'll try to cover it all, but in brief. ;)

Zionner, the major improvements to the renderer for the final release are going to be optimizations for speed and memory use, multithreading, bug fixing, and the addition of transparency for water, etc. There are going to be lots of other little bits, but those major categories cover pretty much everything of note.

As Reck said, the "little dots" are related to Global Illumination (GI) - they are the GI samples for the scene and their density is dependent on how high you set your GI detail. The higher the detail, the more samples are needed and the longer it takes. If you turn off GI you'll get less accurate lighting but it will render faster and the dots won't be calculated. We made the decision before release of the Technology Preview to default the GI to being on, but most renderers actually do not do this, so that's another reason that TG2 can be slower than other renders, but the results are often higher quality as because of this.

Reck, what you're talking about is called "progressive rendering". It *can* be in the context of an "unbiased renderer", although it does not have to be. In fact TG2's normal 3D preview is already "progressively rendered". If you watch it, it starts with low detail then gets progressively higher and higher quality. Normal rendering doesn't particularly benefit from this, except in the case where you might not know how much detail you need for a particular scene and so you could simply watch it until it looks "good enough". However there are several problems with this, not least of which is in a renderer that doesn't operate like an "unbiased renderer" I don't think the progressive approach is necessarily as efficient or at least easy to implement. Furthermore on the long time scales that these renders will inevitably still require (hours at least, for high quality and high resolution), you aren't necessarily going to be there to be able to say "OK, stop it there". Finally, in terms of unbiased renderers, I think you'll find they are invariably much slower than almost any other rendering approach for theoretically superior but often just "equivalent" results. They are in theory more "accurate", but in practice you can achieve similar or better results in less time with other implementations.

Finally, yes Dark Fire there will be a free version of the final release of TG 2. What features will be limited in it and how much is yet to be determined. TG 0.9 is essentially no longer being developed, although it is likely that we will continue to sell it as a low-end product.

- Oshyan

efflux

Planetside will not finish TG 0.9 and they will not finish TG2, moving to another app or version to force a bait and scam.

Just kidding  :D

Amazingly though, this kind of thing actually happens but with big upgrades and no alphas to use but we have good working apps even if not at final versions yet so I'm not bothered if final release is later as long as work continues to add and improve.

Cyber-Angel

#22
I know that this question is a long way in the future but the license people have have for TG2 no matter what flavor, how far into Terragens future dose it extend at least till Terragen 3.0 which would be the next full release but would we have to get a new license. Like I said long way off but still it would be nice to know what the official policy (If one exists at this time) is.

As to the subject of unbiased renderer's form my understanding one of the more well known ones is Maxwell Render which uses a relatively new rendering method called "Spectral Rendering" which is to say it treats light like an Electromagnetic Wave which allows a spectral rendering application to do things a traditional RGB renderer can not such as Iridescence and Polarization.       

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel   

cyphyr

Quote from: Oshyan on October 25, 2007, 06:48:25 PM... and the addition of transparency for water, etc. There are ...
Just a hope that the transparency will not be limited to water. At the moment alpha maps only work in a black white way, more like clipmaps. It would be useful for imported models to have greyscale control over transparency so hair for example could be rendered internally etc. Not a biggy though. :)
Richard
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buchvecny

the terragen is ok even now... all i want is just the multi proc support so i could render in some normal speed. I hate when i apply some displacement and wait five mins to see what happened

rcallicotte

@Oshyan - This is all very good news and helpful as well.  Thanks.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Oshyan

Quote from: Cyber-Angel on October 25, 2007, 07:24:52 PM
I know that this question is a long way in the future but the license people have have for TG2 no matter what flavor, how far into Terragens future dose it extend at least till Terragen 3.0 which would be the next full release but would we have to get a new license. Like I said long way off but still it would be nice to know what the official policy (If one exists at this time) is.

Any license purchased for Terragen 2 will entitle you to "minor" updates, up to but not including a 3.0 release. This is described on the license purchase page in the following way:
"Free updates to Terragen 2 "Deep" edition final release and subsequent minor updates (2.x versions)"

A discounted upgrade price will be offered to 2.x purchasers on a 3.0 release.

- Oshyan

Cyber-Angel

Thank you for pointing that out since I haven't looked there in a long while  :)

Regards to you

Cyber-Angel