How long is too long for a single render?

Started by robynmiller, January 22, 2020, 09:04:29 pm

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robynmiller

I'd appreciate some help on this one. And I don't mind saying that I only started using Terragen at the beginning of the week--so I have no idea what I'm doing. I haven't had any trouble rendering at smaller test sizes. Now that I'm rendering at 5000 x 5000 pixels (for print) the render is taking excruciatingly long (currently at eight hours). The "ocean" area is especially slow.

What am I doing wrong? I'm using the "robust adaptive sampler" (like I have any idea what this is). 

Also, I set anti-aliasing to 4, but the image doesn't look anti-aliased. 

Please help.

WAS

Quote from: robynmiller on January 22, 2020, 09:04:29 pmI'd appreciate some help on this one. And I don't mind saying that I only started using Terragen at the beginning of the week--so I have no idea what I'm doing. I haven't had any trouble rendering at smaller test sizes. Now that I'm rendering at 5000 x 5000 pixels (for print) the render is taking excruciatingly long (currently at eight hours). The "ocean" area is especially slow.

What am I doing wrong? I'm using the "robust adaptive sampler" (like I have any idea what this is).

Also, I set anti-aliasing to 4, but the image doesn't look anti-aliased.

Please help.

AA 4 is very low for such a resolution. It will probably look like not much AA is being applied.

It's hard to say without looking at your project or learning more about your settings.

One way we could quickly glance at your render settings is clicking the "Render 01" render node (or whatever you named it) in the Node Network and hitting Ctrl + Copy, and than psting the result here in a code box.

Code ("Render Node") Select
<terragen_clip>
<render
name = "Render 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "960 -120 0"
gui_group = "Renderers"
master = "1"
image_width = "1920"
lock_aspect_ratio = "1"
image_height = "1080"
image_aspect_ratio = "1.777777778"
pixel_aspect_ratio = "1"
camera = "Render Camera"
render_layer = ""
surfaces_visible = "1"
atmosphere_visible = "1"
do_shadows = "1"
detail = "0.5"
anti-aliasing = "3"
ray_trace_atmosphere = "1"
defer_all_shading = "1"
path_tracing_on_surfaces = "0"
pt_root_master_quality = "5"
depth_of_field = "0"
dof_method = "2"
motion_blur = "1"
motion_blur_method = "1"
GI_relative_detail = "2"
GI_sample_quality = "2"
GI_blur_radius = "8"
supersample_prepass = "0"
GI_surface_details = "1"
do_crop_region = "0"
crop_left = "0"
crop_right = "1"
crop_bottom = "0"
crop_top = "1"
crop_to_object = "0"
crop_object_name = ""
pixel_filter = "2"
anti-aliasing_bloom = "1"
experimental_atmo_bloom = "0"
atmo_bloom_amount = "0.25"
atmo_bloom_size = "0.25"
bloom = "0"
bloom_amount = "0.1"
starburst = "0"
starburst_amount = "0.1"
starburst_softness = "0.05"
detail_blending = "0"
displacement_filter = "1"
microvertex_jittering = "1"
detail_jittering = "1"
soft_clip_effect = "1"
soft_clip_softness = "1"
compensate_soft_clip = "1"
contrast = "1"
contrast_adjust = "0.25"
gamma_correction = "2.2"
maximum_threads = "64"
do_ray_traced_shadows = "1"
ray_trace_everything = "0"
ray_detail_region = "1"
ray_detail_region_padding = "0"
lock_subdiv_to_frame = "0"
lock_to_frame_number = "1"
ray_trace_objects = "1"
pt_max_ray_depth = "5"
GI_prepass_padding = "0"
do_reverse_primary_rays = "0"
reverse_primary_rays_multiplier = "1"
output_image_filename = "C:\Users\WAS\Documents\${TGDNAME}.%04d.tif"
extra_output_images = "0"
extra_output_image_filename = "C:\Users\WAS\Documents\${TGDNAME}.${IMAGETYPE}.%04d.tif"
create_subfolders = "1"
exr_pixel_type = "1"
tiff_bits = "8"
tiff_compression = "1"
micro_exporter = "0"
micro_exporter_name = ""
sequence_first = "1"
sequence_last = "100"
sequence_step = "1"
>
<render_bucket_controls
name = "Render bucket controls 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 120 0"
gui_group = ""
max_bucket_size = "256 256"
allow_auto_reduction = "1"
>
</render_bucket_controls>
<render_GI_settings
name = "Render GI settings 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 60 0"
gui_group = ""
GI_relative_detail = "2"
GI_cache_detail = "2"
GI_sample_quality = "2"
GI_blur_radius = "8"
supersample_prepass = "0"
no_GI_cache_file = "1"
write_to_GI_cache_file = "0"
GI_cache_filename_to_write = "C:\Users\WAS\Documents\gicache_%04d.gic"
read_from_GI_cache_file = "0"
GI_cache_filename_to_read = ""
GI_cache_blend_mode = "3"
GI_cache_blend_range = "5"
GI_prepass_padding = "0"
GI_surface_details = "1"
GI_surface_details_method = "1"
GISD_occlusion_weight = "1"
GISD_bounce_weight = "1"
GISD_radius = "24"
GISD_falloff = "1"
PT_GI_surface_details = "0"
PT_GI_surface_details_method = "1"
PT_GISD_occlusion_weight = "1"
PT_GISD_bounce_weight = "1"
PT_GISD_radius = "24"
PT_GISD_falloff = "1"
cloud_GI_quality_preset = "1"
cloud_GI_max_ray_depth = "2"
optimise_voxel_scattering = "1"
voxel_scatter_quality = "100"
>
</render_GI_settings>
<render_pixel_sampler
name = "Render pixel sampler 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 0 0"
gui_group = ""
anti-aliasing = "3"
samples_per_pixel_label = ""
new_curve = "0"
robust = "1"
customise_sampling = "0"
first_sampling_level = "1"
pixel_noise_threshold = "0.1"
>
</render_pixel_sampler>
<render_subdiv_settings
name = "Render subdiv settings 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 -60 0"
gui_group = ""
fully_adaptive = "1"
microvertex_jittering = "1"
force_all_edges = "0"
detail_jittering = "1"
detail_blending = "0"
displacement_filter = "1"
jitter_shading_points = "1"
ray_detail_multiplier = "0.25"
stabilise_ray_detail_in_motion = "0"
ray_detail_stabilisation = "3"
override_size_of_subdiv_cache = "0"
size_of_subdiv_cache_in_Mb = "3200"
preallocate_subdiv_cache = "0"
>
</render_subdiv_settings>
</render>
</terragen_clip>

Oshyan

Render time is highly variable depending on both the contents of your scene (including camera perspective, i.e. what you are looking at), and render settings. Your computer hardware also has a large impact, of course. So it's pretty difficult to say whether 8rs of render time is to be expected without knowing more about A: your computer, B: your scene, and C: your render settings. I'd suggest posting your CPU, RAM, and operating system at a minimum, and if you can take a screenshot of your render-in-progress and include it here.

- Oshyan

Dune

The amount of small (overlapping in lateral) displacements, number of compute terrains/normals, use of ray-traced reflection, or transparent water with much turbulence in the water, higher than default 0.25 subdivision setting, smoothed shadows and number of samples, and use of (much and high) v3 cloud will also greatly influence render time. Amongst others. So there's a lot to take care about before doing such a big render.

Tangled-Universe

The reason it does not look anti-aliased is because of the TG render window.
I recently did a 7680px wide render with AA8 and it looked totally not anti-aliased as well, because TG's render window does not perform any interpolation or proper down-scaling of the full size render to the size of the render window.
Summary: ignore how it looks while rendering such high resolution images

AA4 is not very high, but at high resolutions and for print then it might not even be so bad.
I'd check in a couple of crop renders if the noise/detail is to your liking and only then increase AA.

Oshyan and Dune pointed to the most critical aspects already, so I'd definitely start from there and work step by step.
A quick looks tells me that WAS's render node is pretty much default, which is never a bad start.
I'd reduce resolution though to reduce render testing time and set AA to 4 so that you get accustomed to what kind of result that gives.
Powers of 2 are also slightly nicer for the sampler, but it's not vital.

robynmiller

This was amazingly helpful. Thanks!!! My image still took 16 hours, but it did render with AA after all (and looks great in photoshop). Thanks, Tangled Universe for that suggestion.

As far as the 16 hour thing... Ahhhhhhh! I think the water is the problem. And maybe it's the transparency. I'll play with that. Just in case it's something else... here are my render settings (though I've since changed AA settings and turned off soft shadows).

Thanks!

<terragen_clip>
<render
name = "Render 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "960 -120 0"
gui_group = "Renderers"
master = "1"
image_width = "5000"
lock_aspect_ratio = "0"
image_height = "5000"
image_aspect_ratio = "1"
pixel_aspect_ratio = "1"
camera = "Render Camera"
render_layer = ""
surfaces_visible = "1"
atmosphere_visible = "1"
do_shadows = "1"
detail = "0.5"
anti-aliasing = "8"
ray_trace_atmosphere = "1"
defer_all_shading = "1"
path_tracing_on_surfaces = "0"
pt_root_master_quality = "5"
depth_of_field = "0"
dof_method = "2"
motion_blur = "0"
motion_blur_method = "0"
GI_relative_detail = "1"
GI_sample_quality = "2"
GI_blur_radius = "8"
supersample_prepass = "0"
GI_surface_details = "1"
do_crop_region = "0"
crop_left = "0"
crop_right = "1"
crop_bottom = "0"
crop_top = "1"
crop_to_object = "0"
crop_object_name = ""
pixel_filter = "2"
anti-aliasing_bloom = "1"
experimental_atmo_bloom = "0"
atmo_bloom_amount = "0.25"
atmo_bloom_size = "0.25"
bloom = "0"
bloom_amount = "0.1"
starburst = "0"
starburst_amount = "0.1"
starburst_softness = "0.05"
detail_blending = "0"
displacement_filter = "1"
microvertex_jittering = "1"
detail_jittering = "1"
soft_clip_effect = "1"
soft_clip_softness = "1"
compensate_soft_clip = "1"
contrast = "1"
contrast_adjust = "0.25"
gamma_correction = "2.2"
maximum_threads = "64"
do_ray_traced_shadows = "1"
ray_trace_everything = "0"
ray_detail_region = "1"
ray_detail_region_padding = "0"
lock_subdiv_to_frame = "0"
lock_to_frame_number = "1"
ray_trace_objects = "1"
pt_max_ray_depth = "5"
GI_prepass_padding = "0"
do_reverse_primary_rays = "0"
reverse_primary_rays_multiplier = "1"
output_image_filename = "/Users/godzilla/Documents/${TGDNAME}.%04d.tif"
extra_output_images = "0"
extra_output_image_filename = "/Users/godzilla/Documents/${TGDNAME}.${IMAGETYPE}.%04d.tif"
create_subfolders = "1"
exr_pixel_type = "1"
tiff_bits = "8"
tiff_compression = "1"
micro_exporter = "0"
micro_exporter_name = ""
sequence_first = "1"
sequence_last = "100"
sequence_step = "1"
>
<render_bucket_controls
name = "Render bucket controls 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 120 0"
gui_group = ""
max_bucket_size = "256 256"
allow_auto_reduction = "1"
>
</render_bucket_controls>
<render_GI_settings
name = "Render GI settings 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 60 0"
gui_group = ""
GI_relative_detail = "1"
GI_cache_detail = "2"
GI_sample_quality = "2"
GI_blur_radius = "8"
supersample_prepass = "0"
no_GI_cache_file = "1"
write_to_GI_cache_file = "0"
GI_cache_filename_to_write = "/Users/godzilla/Documents/gicache_%04d.gic"
read_from_GI_cache_file = "0"
GI_cache_filename_to_read = ""
GI_cache_blend_mode = "3"
GI_cache_blend_range = "5"
GI_prepass_padding = "0"
GI_surface_details = "1"
GI_surface_details_method = "1"
GISD_occlusion_weight = "1"
GISD_bounce_weight = "1"
GISD_radius = "24"
GISD_falloff = "1"
PT_GI_surface_details = "0"
PT_GI_surface_details_method = "1"
PT_GISD_occlusion_weight = "1"
PT_GISD_bounce_weight = "1"
PT_GISD_radius = "24"
PT_GISD_falloff = "1"
cloud_GI_quality_preset = "1"
cloud_GI_max_ray_depth = "2"
optimise_voxel_scattering = "1"
voxel_scatter_quality = "100"
>
</render_GI_settings>
<render_pixel_sampler
name = "Render pixel sampler 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 0 0"
gui_group = ""
anti-aliasing = "8"
samples_per_pixel_label = ""
new_curve = "0"
robust = "1"
customise_sampling = "0"
first_sampling_level = "0"
pixel_noise_threshold = "0.0375"
>
</render_pixel_sampler>
<render_subdiv_settings
name = "Render subdiv settings 01"
gui_use_node_pos = "1"
gui_node_pos = "1160 -60 0"
gui_group = ""
fully_adaptive = "1"
microvertex_jittering = "1"
force_all_edges = "0"
detail_jittering = "1"
detail_blending = "0"
displacement_filter = "1"
jitter_shading_points = "1"
ray_detail_multiplier = "0.25"
stabilise_ray_detail_in_motion = "0"
ray_detail_stabilisation = "3"
override_size_of_subdiv_cache = "0"
size_of_subdiv_cache_in_Mb = "6200"
preallocate_subdiv_cache = "0"
>
</render_subdiv_settings>
</render>
</terragen_clip>

Oshyan

Your render settings look pretty reasonable, even with soft shadows (when using Defer All and Robust Adaptive Sampling, soft shadows have a more moderate impact on render time). You are also not using path tracing here (Path Tracing On Surfaces set to 0), so the Path Tracing settings (Ray Depth, etc.) don't matter anyway. If water was the biggest render time hit, transparency may well be the reason. But again I would encourage you to share an image of your actual scene, even now that you've successfully rendered it. That can tell us a lot. We also need to know your system specs (CPU, memory, OS) to better judge relative performance. 

So overall your settings seem pretty normal to me. What's missing from the consideration would be things like atmosphere and cloud samples/quality, which can also have a big impact.

- Oshyan