Warping a rotated simple shape

Started by sboerner, February 09, 2020, 03:30:57 pm

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sboerner

February 09, 2020, 03:30:57 pm Last Edit: February 09, 2020, 03:46:04 pm by sboerner
I understand that it's possible to warp a simple shape that's been rotated into a vertical position, but I cannot get it to work.

I've rotated a SSS 90 degrees on the Z axis with a transform node in worldspace. The SSS is connected to a warp input shader with a PF as the warper. Before rotation, warping works fine. After rotation, not so much.

Before rotation, I run the PF through a redirect via the X and Z inputs. After rotation, it doesn't matter whether the redirect is used or not, or what inputs are used.

I'd like to warp this thing on the Y axis if possible.

Edit: All works as expected if the warp is applied *before* the rotation. Still wondering if it might be possible to do it after, though.

Dune

An SSS in world space can't be warped. Needs to be in default state and transformed to world later (if necessary).

Dune

Here's how.

WAS

In summary world position (final position) is "final". It won't respond to any other alterations.

sboerner

QuoteAn SSS in world space can't be warped. Needs to be in default state and transformed to world later (if necessary).
Thanks Ulco. Probably should have attached this image before to illustrate what I was trying to do, but it seems you have identified the issue. Makes sense, and warping before the transform works fine in any case.



QuoteIn summary world position (final position) is "final". It won't respond to any other alterations.
Good to know. I'm glad I asked, thanks.

WAS

It's good to note that that simple shape seems to just be on X or Z, so is only warpable on X or Z. Since it's running along the length of the walll.

Dune

What is it you want to achieve anyway? Warped layers/strata?

Tangled-Universe

Ulco, a warped simple shape will behave similar on a wall as in your 'warp on Y' example?

WAS, 'world position' does not equal 'final position'.
I can see why you think so, but they have a different meaning in a different context.

'World position' is perhaps better called 'world space'.
World space is non-deformable/non-warpable. It's the ground coordinate system on which all other (deformable) texture spaces rest.
Within world space you have object space, texture space, geometry space (terrain) or cloud space.
These are different types of coordinate systems for different elements of the scene.
World position in the transform shader converts the input 'space' to world space.
The 'final position' applies to the context of the terrain and although the final position of a point in your terrain exists within world space ultimately, it is not 1:1 connected to 'world position' or 'world space' in this context.

If you want to warp a simple shape and rotate it to be 'standing upright' then you need to respect the hierarchy of texture spaces.
As Ulco already explained you first need to warp and then rotate it in world space mode.
It's just that his example is not entirely convincing, although the settings in the nodes are correct, but those are not shown.

WAS

February 11, 2020, 01:45:41 pm #8 Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 02:59:49 pm by WAS
Calm down. Matt has even said it's "Final Position" It even flipping says it in parenthesis... And the final position most certainly applies to noise shaders, not just terrain (which it can't even appropriately scale/etc unless stripping it down to a scalar)

Do me a huge solid, since I can't block you since those features don't exist on these forums, do not respond to me, or interact with me in comments.

ffs you've got an ego complex and usually wrong. And here you are acting like the god of TG when you can't even make a complex scene and just use heightmaps, or flat scenes filled with objects, utilizing share tgcs.

Tangled-Universe

Hmmm ok... I can see why you got bothered about the final position if you take my words literally, but if it's within your capabilities I'd like you to reconsider my post, because the texture space discussion is relevant to the topic.

All the other things you say I will just ignore, ok?

sboerner

QuoteWithin world space you have object space, texture space, geometry space (terrain) or cloud space.

These are different types of coordinate systems for different elements of the scene.
This is fundamental information that I don't recall running across before, at least not put this succinctly. It clarifies a few things and will make it simpler for me to anticipate Terragen's behavior. Thanks for that.


Perhaps the glossary in the wiki could be expanded to include definitions of these basic terms, and others. A big part of Terragen's learning curve is just figuring out what the terms mean and how they relate to each other. It's not always obvious.


QuoteWhat is it you want to achieve anyway? Warped layers/strata?
Yes, warped strata. It's all working out really well, actually. Once I have a rendering I'll post an update elsewhere to show you what I'm working on.

WAS

Quote from: Tangled-Universe on February 11, 2020, 05:17:07 pmHmmm ok... I can see why you got bothered about the final position if you take my words literally, but if it's within your capabilities I'd like you to reconsider my post, because the texture space discussion is relevant to the topic.

All the other things you say I will just ignore, ok?

Does "Final Position" specify any specific space? No. Because it's final. World space isn't even part of your points because it encompasses them all, hence the "(final position)" because that is essentially what is happening... No shader will respond to any other alterations on XYZ.

Tangled-Universe

I wonder what you really want from me?
Do you want to block/ignore me, as you did say, or do you want me to clarify further?
What do you want from all of us, actually?