Stability on 2016 iMac and 2018 MacBookPro

Started by adrianlines, June 05, 2020, 12:40:36 pm

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adrianlines

I'm finding that the software is regularly crashing at random points on both my computers. (High Sierra on MacBookPro and Catalina on iMac)
It becomes more unstable if I try and edit the scene whilst rendering, but sometimes it crashes when I just press a random button or tab.
Apple throws up the diagnostic log, but is there a log for Terragen.
Any guidance ?

WAS

While you can edit the project while rendering, it's best not to. Changing something the renderer is calculating can crash TG.

Changing shaders while the RTP or 3D Preview is active can also crash TG.

Also a bug with localized clouds with too high depth locking up TG in my current build. Couldn't even load up old planet ring projects, though I'm not updating TG anymore so gotta live with it.

raymoh

I noticed the same thing. Terragen is not "multitasking" capable. The only thing that helps is to work slower, have a coffee and leave the program alone while rendering or send your big renders at PixelPlow.
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global stupidity"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)

WAS


Kadri

While rendering it looks what there is in the node network.
When you change anything it is a wonder if it is not crashing at all.
So the right thing actually is that it should crash if you change anything while rendering :)

Half joking but in Lightwave for example you can't even do anything other then look at the render screen window while rendering.

The best is to just open a second Terragen instance and work there. I do this all the time.
If you work on the same scene just change the name and save it. Then work how you want. Just to be sure.

Kadri

I think what some other programs are doing is kinda opening another instance anyway.
So maybe a different option for doing a separate commandline render without any GUI could be made maybe.
Or just doing it manually (haven't tried it).

WAS

I feel if a 3d preview / RTP or Render is active, the node network changes should be withheld, and there should be an "Apply Changes" sort of deal. That way any crash would be manual and up to the user to distinguish what instances this is OK for (like a texture swap before the renderer reaches the obj).

Kadri

When you are making changes while rendering i think that is prone to problematic saves and could be too confusing in the long run.

Curious how other programs are handling doing changes while rendering the same scene, if any.
It is like changing the timeline in an Video editor while rendering. I for one wouldn't do that even if there was an option.
Just saving and rendering in another instance is much safer. Even if possible this would be on the last place in my wish list.

WAS

Quote from: Kadri on June 05, 2020, 08:10:45 pmWhen you are making changes while rendering i think that is prone to problematic saves and could be too confusing in the long run.

Matt has stated in the past (when I questioned this very thing) that you can make changes, and some things are fine, like the above mentioned. Geometry based stuff is more likely to crash you. I've done it on numerous occasions (by accident), and it works, but of course will tear calculation at that point yeidling some exploded geometry or shear drop-offs to the changes you made.

Swapping a object texture works fine, and I've also done that before, for example in testing I've noticed I don't like a texture setting in some trees, and than change it, to see the effect on trees rendered in later on. I haven't crashed doing this.

Crashes are almost expected though if you're breaking the node network tree, such as inserting / changing shader inputs. Especially disconnections.

Dune

;D  It's like moving the ladder while painting the ceiling, prone to accidents. You could pause the render, then change some parameter... I very (very) seldomly do that to see a difference. I do my rendering on another machine or another instance.

raymoh

If you run rendering (Terragen) as a hobby, you don't have two or three computers at your disposal to work "adequately" (at least not me). So it would be desirable if you could work more smoothly with Terragen. So that you could implement spontaneous ideas and changes immediately without running the risk to crash Terragen. It would just be nice if Terragen would give you a hint with an error message after the crash what went wrong. Or that in case of a crash Terragen would be able to save the last state, so that after a restart you could continue working exactly where you were before the crash. I could also imagine running the rendering itself as a separate process: If you pressed "Render", this process runs independently from the rest of Terragen, where you can continue working. If there are changes that can affect the rendering itself, you would get a hint or something like that.
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global stupidity"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)

Kadri

Quote from: raymoh on June 06, 2020, 02:44:56 amIf you run rendering (Terragen) as a hobby, you don't have two or three computers at your disposal to work "adequately" (at least not me). So it would be desirable if you could work more smoothly with Terragen. So that you could implement spontaneous ideas and changes immediately without running the risk to crash Terragen. It would just be nice if Terragen would give you a hint with an error message after the crash what went wrong. Or that in case of a crash Terragen would be able to save the last state, so that after a restart you could continue working exactly where you were before the crash. I could also imagine running the rendering itself as a separate process: If you pressed "Render", this process runs independently from the rest of Terragen, where you can continue working. If there are changes that can affect the rendering itself, you would get a hint or something like that.
As a one man project i would like to use Matt his time on other more important things then this. Your view might be different of course and that is OK. Maybe he could do these changes easily or maybe not i don't know. Rendering is always very CPU (and GPU for some render engines ) intensive. Working while rendering can already be problematic. You don't ned another pc or a high end one. I used this kind of work since years. If you have 8 cores use 4 for one and the other 4 for the other or whatever works best. Don't get me wrong changes like you want here would be nice. But i doubt that you will see these kind of changes at least soon. You want that you can make changes while rendering. I want that Terragen should be easier to work with when even not rendering anything for example https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,27921.msg277589.html#msg277589

To say it more clearly, what you want is not a support problem to me. But a reasonable feature request.

raymoh

You're right, of course. My contribution should actually only confirm to the TO that he is not alone with his problem. The other is "wishful thinking" by me, or "feature request" as you call it. I would just be happy if Terragen was a bit more performant and stable, regardless of the number of cores involved.
This does not harm the quality of Terragen.
"I consider global warming much less dangerous than global stupidity"   (Lisa Fitz, German comedian)

adrianlines

Thanks for the general feedback. I have taught myself to put the laptop down and make my self a G&T whilst rendering.
I now have another really annoying bug on my laptop only. I can no longer click on the library button at any time without it crashing.