Blender-made object shading horribly skewed

Started by N-drju, April 24, 2021, 02:02:20 pm

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KlausK

April 25, 2021, 05:49:51 pm #15 Last Edit: April 25, 2021, 05:54:12 pm by KlausK
This is what "wagonik4b_sb" looks like in TG.

@N-drju: I loaded your file into Blender 2.92, selected all parts in Layout mode
and then under "Object" I clicked "Shade Smooth". But I do not even know if that had any effect on your model.
Also - since I do not know anything of Blender - I do not know if that has any effect on the model or just the viewport representation.

Anyway, in your very first screenshot I can see that you have Xray mode turned on in the viewport.
Maybe that has something to do with how the model is displayed? Your last screenshot does not give (me) any clues whatsoever.

But as you can see, sboerners object model is the way to go.
It is not a software nor hardware problem, it`s your modeling technique.

CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate

KlausK

This is by far a production ready object, and the form is not nearly as nice as your model.
I hope it proves my point about the modeling technique clearer (hope I did not offend you).
This is done by two extruded curves into a polygon object with only 1600 faces.
So there would be a lot of headroom for refinement. So you can get quite nice results with low poly count already.

Maybe you can make some time to watch a few online tutorials about organic or car modeling in Blender.
That might get you going faster, perhaps.

CHeers, Klaus

ps: I really like the soft rounded reflective shape :)
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate

N-drju

April 26, 2021, 02:49:57 am #17 Last Edit: April 26, 2021, 02:53:12 am by N-drju
Quote from: KlausK on April 25, 2021, 07:57:54 pmThis is by far a production ready object, and the form is not nearly as nice as your model.
I hope it proves my point about the modeling technique clearer (hope I did not offend you).

No worries, no offence taken. I'm not an expert in Blender (just about a year's experience) so any tip or critique is welcome.

My reservations refer to the way in which light is being reflected off of the object where the outer wall starts to bend to the 70-90 degree direction. The same happens for the shadows which seem to have no falloff but are sometimes cut sharp at the bends, like in my first example. I think that in the case of a smooth wall, this should not be happening.

If not it might have something to do with how TG interprets the geometry, though I can't determine how much (if at all) it contributes to the effect. Just a rough guess.

Quote from: KlausK on April 25, 2021, 07:57:54 pmps: I really like the soft rounded reflective shape :)

You should see the final object then. I plan to share it in the file section when it's ready. I have identified some redundant faces so, hopefully, it'll be 10 - 20 mb smaller compared to now. :P
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

sboerner

Check to make sure the object has smooth shading:
https://docs.blender.org/manual/en/latest/modeling/meshes/editing/face/shading.html

You may also want to enable Object Data Properties > Auto Smooth and set the angle at which Blender determines which normals should be flat or smooth.

But, seriously (based on what you've shown so far) this model should be a fraction of 100MB in size, maybe even less than 1MB depending on how much additional detail is added. (If you Google "blender subdivision modeling" you'll find some tutorials that show how to work with low-poly models and the subdivision surface modifier.)

Good luck with the rest of the project - looking forward to seeing the final model.

N-drju

Let me go back to this topic one more time and say that you Guys are the best! :)

I currently work on seats for my "vehicle" and the subdivision modifier you hinted at works wonders! Not only the object's shading is correct but it is also very easy to control it's shape and all that by just using a very basic, angular lattice. Something that is basically impossible to do without this modifier's help. How convenient!

fotel.jpg

Now I really gotta find a solution to the huge file size my objects swell to (this chair is already 90mb). I'm proud my new machine can handle them. 8) But it's still too much nonetheless!
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

sboerner

Beautiful work! Very nice model.

I would seriously recommend keeping your poly counts down, especially for things that aren't hero objects. Inflated poly counts just increase your wait time and workload all along the pipeline - modeling, mapping, shading, rendering. This model may be "only" 90 MB . . . but when you combine 2 (or 4) of them, plus the ship, plus passengers . . . you get the idea.

One advantage of using the subdivision modifier is that you can model at high resolution, then reduce it for export depending on how the object is going to be used.

But keep up the great work. Looks like you've got the hang of it.

Dune

Looks really good indeed. But I'd say a model like this can be under 10MB.

N-drju

Quote from: Dune on April 30, 2021, 02:15:45 amLooks really good indeed. But I'd say a model like this can be under 10MB.

;D :o

The original lattice is already 10MB being just an angular skeleton, far from anything that could be presented to the public. I hardly believe it can be reduced to less than 10MB without sacrificing quality. But yes, I do agree that I need to find a way to cut down on the size.

There are numerous little options in Blender that have an influence on Blender rendering but do not seem to have any impact on an exported object in Terragen...

What I wish to do today, is to uncheck every box and disable any feature that seems redundant from the TG point of view and see if that helps.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Dune

Quality (mesh count) probably also depends on where in the scene this chair will be. The further, the lower...

WAS

Yeah working with as low as polys and only subdividing at the end, to a desired look, is crucial to keep filesize down.

Though you could take your final and run it through MeshLab or other programs with smart decimation algorithms to create distant low poly versions like Ulco was hinting at (if it's far away swapping to a lower poly version would help with scene management).

Though I think TG needs a object swapping function that literally transitions between models during sequence so these aren't a "pop" event if visible.

sboerner

April 30, 2021, 04:36:22 pm #25 Last Edit: April 30, 2021, 04:39:51 pm by sboerner
QuoteThe original lattice is already 10MB being just an angular skeleton, far from anything that could be presented to the public.


My goodness. That just seems unreasonably large. Is that the .blend size or the exported .obj file size? You can reduce the size of the .blend file by purging orphan data. It's a good idea to clean that out once in a while. (Always make a backup first, of course.)

How many levels of subdivision in the modifier? It depends on the model, but I rarely go above 2, and never above 3.

By way of comparison, the .obj file for the packet boat model I posted a few weeks ago is 15 MB, about 102,000 polys. That includes the smooth hull and highly subdivided geometry of the brass railings and coiled rope, and UVs too of course. (Adding here again so you don't have to go looking for it. :) )

N-drju

Quote from: sboerner on April 30, 2021, 04:36:22 pmMy goodness. That just seems unreasonably large. Is that the .blend size or the exported .obj file size?

To answer your question, it is the size of the .blend file (modifiers not yet applied). But it looks like you were right Guys. Again!

Today, I indeed worked to see what I can do to reduce the file size. My seat currently stands at 90mb after export... Here's what I did...

I reduced the subdivision count for some of the surfaces (from 6 to 3 in some cases :o).

Then, I removed as many "invisible" faces as I could. By that, I mean the ones that are simply obscured by other geometry and, essentially, useless.

I have also discovered that it is possible to cut down the file size by a third, simply by unchecking the "write normals" dialogue box on export.

normals.jpg

I'm not really sure what this feature does... The fact remains that the file size has dropped considerably when this was unchecked.

Cumulatively my 90mb armchair dropped down to just 17mb. :) Here's what it looks like now:

seat.jpg

It seems that unchecking the "write normals" option does not have too much of an influence on how an object will be rendered in TG, though I still have to run a test or two. The only "price" is that objects are entirely black in the "smooth shading" view option in TG, but I can live with that most of the time. In any case, I consider it an interesting find and objects seem to render just fine.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

sboerner

Good work! That sounds like a more appropriate size for a model like that.

Quote from: undefinedI'm not really sure what this feature does... The fact remains that the file size has dropped considerably when this was unchecked.

From the docs:


Quote from: undefinedWrite Normals
Write out Blender's face and vertex normals (depending on the faces smooth setting).
Mostly this isn't needed since most applications will calculate their own normals but to match Blender's normal map textures you will need to write these too.

So it would seem that Terragen's 3D preview requires the written normals, but the renderer does not, which makes sense. (Using baked-in data would speed up the preview.) Not sure I could do without proper shading in the 3D window. But if it doesn't bother you, why not?

Dune

I sometimes don't use calculated nomals in hair from ZB fibermesh. It looks awful in preview, but indeed renders fine. And is lighter MB-wise.

KlausK

Doesn`t PoseRay write normals, when you just load and save a object?
I seem to remember I had that issue of the black preview surface sometimes and fixed it with PoseRay...
Maybe worth a try.

CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate