2 Planets with Lake on Planet 2 crashes TG

Started by KlausK, June 22, 2021, 11:53:13 am

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KlausK

Hi,

When you open this scene, hit the Render button ---> TG shuts down.

In the attached file the following happens here:

as soon as I touch any light related tab or node TG shuts down ("The program stopped working").
When I increase the camera distance from the second planet it sometimes/mostly works.

I`d be curious if anybody experiences the same...

Btw. trying to get a Lake object on a second planet object crashes TG a lot, mostly when I hit the render button.

CHeers, Klaus

TG 4.5.56 on a Win7 Ultimate. See specs in my avatars footnote.
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate

Dune

I didn't try it yet, but perhaps the lake isn't suited for another planet. What if you use a sphere for water same size as planet 2? I always use a sphere instead of the lake object.

WAS

I can't even get 5% of the 3D Preview before TG crashes.

Few things.

  • Lake isn't meant to be this big. Use a sphere.
  • Water shader is causing the issue, applied to the oversized lake. The water shader uses an internal function for its water displacement, and you may be blowing out that function.
  • Your displacement for the base, smaller planet doesn't need a min scale at a 10th of a meter, it will stress the sampler. Use scales at or above 100 meters.

KlausK

Thanks for looking.

I do not try to "build" anything here.
Putting the Lake object on a second planet object is mentioned in the Wiki.
That`s why I tried it.

Anyways, I am glad to hear that it has nothing to do with my computer as it seems.

I did not pay attention to the displacement sizes, you right here.


Quote from: WAS on June 22, 2021, 02:09:44 pm
  • Lake isn't meant to be this big.
Is that in the documention somewhere?

If there is anything like a oversized lake - well, should`nt it be prohibited to be able to crash TG ?
Or spit out some helpful message?

And as I mentioned, it can be rendered if you move further away from the planet with the lake object.
No need to change the sizes in any way.


Well, maybe someone from planetside is interested to take a look at the scene file and gain some info from it.

CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate

KlausK

Quote from: WAS on June 22, 2021, 02:09:44 pmI can't even get 5% of the 3D Preview before TG crashes.
I do not have that problem.


CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate

WAS

June 22, 2021, 02:48:54 pm #5 Last Edit: June 22, 2021, 03:40:23 pm by WAS
Quote from: KlausK on June 22, 2021, 02:24:39 pm
Quote from: undefined
  • Lake isn't meant to be this big.
Is that in the documention somewhere?

No, but the lakes plane has sectional issues at default scale and it's better to just use a sphere at planet location (and radius), and use a surface layer offset for water level (with color disabled). Though if you need a lake specifically you gotta mask the area and use a default shader or constant shader to alpha 0 the rest of the sphere. You don't get the weird lines that show through reflections in certain lighting. I don't think it's subdivided as it should be, and has large planes tilted along planet curve.

As for it prohibited, is anything else prohibited you can blow out settings wise or how you do things? I don't think there is. As a computer today may not be able to do it well, but tomorrow a computer could. Similar to Terragen's overall performance and how the system requirements don't make much sense considering not much has changed with it from back in XP days with crap machines by comparison today. It can scale down to even my cellular phone on an emulator and still function without crashes, just at a turtles pace.

As for WHY it's crashing, I have no clue, but I'm thinking it's the super rough extreme water displacement on the basic lake object.


Quote from: KlausK on June 22, 2021, 02:25:33 pm
Quote from: undefinedI can't even get 5% of the 3D Preview before TG crashes.
I do not have that problem.

Kinda falls back on the aforementioned one computer to the next scenario. TG is unpredictable with some errors. I think there is a good amount of support topics of crashes that were not reproducible by other people. Probably because it comes down to computation errors which can vary by CPU on what it can accomplish before failing. Also probably resources, if something is intense, and eats up all available memory, that can lead to a  CTD real quick and be very unpredictable, or not even present on another machine with lots of RAM.

crisb

Quote from: KlausK on June 22, 2021, 02:24:39 pmWell, maybe someone from planetside is interested to take a look at the scene file and gain some info from it.
Hello Klaus,


We'll take a look at it, but I believe the users here are correct. I also agree that the documentation should suggest that lakes are for planets the camera is on, and/or guide the user away from the problem and show an alternative solution. I'll pop that up the chain.


cheers,

crisb.

KlausK

Thanks, this is by no means a workflow I want to use, as I mentioned.
I just stumbled upon this 2nd Planet thing in the Wiki so I gave it try. Just curious to close in on the problem, really...

On my machine I found that the critical size for the "max radius" of the lake is around 4e+06 - 4.3+06.
Anything higher than that and TG becomes unstable and as soon as I try to move in the viewport
or touch a button it shuts down. Crashes even when I shut down the 3D Viewer.

Until then the Water shader can be set to ridiculous high Waves or Roughness - doesn`t matter.
TG crunches the numbers no matter what ;)


CHeers, Klaus
/ ASUS WS Mainboard / Dual XEON E5-2640v3 / 64GB RAM / NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 TI / Win7 Ultimate

WAS

I don't think it's numbers more than it's RAM filling up. The project immediately begins inflating astronomically on my computer at 3D preview 5%.