A few UI suggestions regarding the new alpha build

[reck]

Been playing around and have a few suggestions.

1. Ever since we've been able to open the node window as a separate window i've not needed to see the nodes under the 3d preview window and I used to stretch the 3d window as far down as possible. With this new version I now have the option of clicking the x on the node section under the 3d view to get rid of it, which is exactly what I want. The problem is that this setting doesn't seem to get saved and each time I open TG I have to click on each of the 8 tabs and close the node window again. Please allow this setting to be saved so we can configure the UI how we want. Also on a related note it seems that the x and the minimise/maximise button next to it do the same thing, if this is the case then one of them can go.

2. Have an option for the new navigation window to "stay on top" of other TG windows. As i'm clicking to make a 3d window active it moves the navigation window behind so i'm constantly having to bring it to the front.

3. Change the navigation window to be none resizeable. I know it's only a small thing but it serves no purpose stretching (or shrinking) the window at the moment, so to keep it clean it shouldn't be resized.

That's all for more, overall this is a great update.

[rcallicotte]

I'm sure Planetside will put these things on their list, but I'm more interested in stability and reliability with what is working right now.  It's really not working that great.  No complaints, since I know Planetside realizes the present state.  Simply, it needs a lot more work...or perhaps some key work in obvious places. 

Anyway, I vote to reduce the number of added requirements to this project and just get it working as is.  Know what I mean?

[Matt]

Suggestions are always welcome, even when we're not able to act upon them very soon. I think these are things we'll be able to polish for further updates after the final 2.0 release.

[gregsandor]

I agree with Reck, and would add that I want to be able to fill my screen with the 3d Preview window and the node network; I never use the hierarchy menu but the ability to use my entire workspace would be a great help.

[gregsandor]

And while we're at it, an expandable preview of the texture in the shader will be a great help.

[Matt]

Greg,

I don't know if you're already aware of this, but you can open 3D Previews and Node Networks in separate windows. This can be done in various ways but one way is to right click in a view and you will find a menu item to open the view in a new window.

Shaders and heightfields can also be previewed in separate windows. There's a button on the parameter panel for shaders and heightfields.

Reck raised some concerns about other windows not staying on top, which makes these separate windows less easy to work with, but I wanted to make sure you were aware of these features.

Matt

[jo]

Hi Reck,

1. Ever since we've been able to open the node window as a separate window i've not needed to see the nodes under the 3d preview window and I used to stretch the 3d window as far down as possible. With this new version I now have the option of clicking the x on the node section under the 3d view to get rid of it, which is exactly what I want. The problem is that this setting doesn't seem to get saved and each time I open TG I have to click on each of the 8 tabs and close the node window again. Please allow this setting to be saved so we can configure the UI how we want.

I'll look into it, I don't think it would be too hard to implement. I have been meaning to do something about saving and restoring window positions for a while.

Also on a related note it seems that the x and the minimise/maximise button next to it do the same thing, if this is the case then one of them can go.

They do different things. I don't see any overlap in what they do myself.

2. Have an option for the new navigation window to "stay on top" of other TG windows. As i'm clicking to make a 3d window active it moves the navigation window behind so i'm constantly having to bring it to the front.

On Windows it appears to support click through, so if you click on the control (the left arrow for example) you want to use it will start working and the window will come to the front. I've just discovered that by accident ;-).

3. Change the navigation window to be none resizeable. I know it's only a small thing but it serves no purpose stretching (or shrinking) the window at the moment, so to keep it clean it shouldn't be resized.

You aren't supposed to be able to resize it, you can't on the Mac but there was a small bug on Windows which allowed it to be resized. That's now fixed.

Regards,

Jo

[reck]

Hi Matt, Jo, thanks for the replies.

Also on a related note it seems that the x and the minimise/maximise button next to it do the same thing, if this is the case then one of them can go.

They do different things. I don't see any overlap in what they do myself.

If you wanted to make the 3D portion full length you could do this by clicking the x in the node network window but you could also click the maximise button in the 3D window do achieve the same result. So you could get rid of either the x or max/min buttons and still be able to maxmise the area you wanted.

Have an option for the new navigation window to "stay on top" of other TG windows. As i'm clicking to make a 3d window active it moves the navigation window behind so i'm constantly having to bring it to the front.

On Windows it appears to support click through, so if you click on the control (the left arrow for example) you want to use it will start working and the window will come to the front. I've just discovered that by accident ;-).

I don't know what click through is. If I have the 3D nav window over the top of the window I want to click to make active it will go behind. If the 3d nav window was set to stay on top this wouldn't happen.

You aren't supposed to be able to resize it, you can't on the Mac but there was a small bug on Windows which allowed it to be resized. That's now fixed.

That's good to hear, thanks for the feedback.

[Matt]

If you wanted to make the 3D portion full length you could do this by clicking the x in the node network window but you could also click the maximise button in the 3D window do achieve the same result. So you could get rid of either the x or max/min buttons and still be able to maxmise the area you wanted.

There is a subtle difference, although how important that difference is may depend on how you use the program. If you use the 'x' to close one of the views then you wouldn't be able to bring it back just by using the 'restore' button on the other view. Perhaps this is a minor difference and maybe you should always be able to bring the other view back. If there were more than two types of view then we'd definitely need it to work how it does now, but with only two views maybe the 'x' is less important.

I don't know what click through is. If I have the 3D nav window over the top of the window I want to click to make active it will go behind. If the 3d nav window was set to stay on top this wouldn't happen.

Click through means that when you click on something in a window that doesn't already have the focus, the click is registered and does something in that other window as well as bring that window info focus. This is what happens on Windows. In the Mac version there is no click through, which means the first click focuses the window and you have to click a second time in order to do something in that window.

I think Jo was making the point that you don't need to bring the navigation window to the front before using the navigation features - you can just click in the navigation window. But I think in your situation you have your 3D Preview filling the whole screen so the problem is that you can't even see the navigation window, so making it stay on top would be helpful. I would also find that useful for some of the windows. However, there is an 'embedded' version of the navigation tool (just click on the little widget near the top right of the view to open it), so this shouldn't really be a problem.

Matt

[reck]

If you use the 'x' to close one of the views then you wouldn't be able to bring it back just by using the 'restore' button on the other view.

In my case that's exactly what I can do. If I click the x on the node window to close it for example, I can use the restore button on the 3d window to bring back the node window. Which is why both buttons seem to accomplish the same thing.

I think Jo was making the point that you don't need to bring the navigation window to the front before using the navigation features - you can just click in the navigation window. But I think in your situation you have your 3D Preview filling the whole screen so the problem is that you can't even see the navigation window, so making it stay on top would be helpful.

Yep that's it exactly, I can't see the nav window to click on it.

[Matt]

In my case that's exactly what I can do. If I click the x on the node window to close it for example, I can use the restore button on the 3d window to bring back the node window. Which is why both buttons seem to accomplish the same thing.

Ah, I see. We'll look into it. I still think some people might intuitively want to expand the view they're concentrating on rather than closing another view that's taking away some of the space they want, so both maximise and close buttons are useful.

Yep that's it exactly, I can't see the nav window to click on it.

How do you find the embedded navigation panel? In what ways is the separate navigation window better? (I know there are some advantages but I'd prefer to hear them from the users.)

Matt

[Mandrake]

Other the the Disappearing "Stay Open" I think the new views work fine!!

[rcallicotte]

Yeah, I love what Jo put together.  The renderer seems clearer, too, Matt...unless it's all in my brain.

[reck]

How do you find the embedded navigation panel? In what ways is the separate navigation window better? (I know there are some advantages but I'd prefer to hear them from the users.)

Matt

Actually I started off using the embedded panel to begin with and didn't have any problems with it at all. It makes it a lot easier for me to move around the landscape now. Once I started opening a number of different windows at the same time I thought i'd give the floating navigation window a try. With a few windows open I prefer to use the one floating window and use that to control the different views. I guess some people would prefer the embedded one and some the floating one, they both work very well it's just personal choice. If the floating window can be made to stay on top I wouldn't have any complaints using either.

On a seperate note the whole program seems a lot more responsive now as well, I assume this is due to the multi threading support.

[jo]

Hi Reck,

I'm glad you find the navigation panels useful.

On a seperate note the whole program seems a lot more responsive now as well, I assume this is due to the multi threading support.

On Windows there was a problem where some controls, mainly buttons, responded to mouse clicks a bit sluggishly. Once we sorted that out the interface on Windows became a lot "snappier".

Regards,

Jo